Stimulants Do amphetamines burn up receptors in your brain?

[Moredopamine]

Moredopamine - What I mean is that at this point, there is nothing that can restore the function. Will there be something in the future? Undoubtedly yes; and from the sounds of it, it will be people like you on the frontier implementing wonderful new ways in which we improve the overall quality of life.

Yeah, right. My hobbies include console-video games, ethanol and mmorpgs.

But thanks for the ego stroke!

 

[Korn3x]

Yes, long term amphetamine use can cause the brain to associate only it with pleasure.

The good news is that as long as you only use them for a couple nights of fun a month and give your brain time to fully recover before using them again, you should be fine. It is when you become dependent on them for everyday life and don't give yourself time to rebalance in between doses than your brain chemistry begins to change.

I've done a lot of amphetamines ( amongst other drugs) and my ability to feel pleasure from normal things isn't altered. I still feel happy when I score high on a test or am having a fun day at the beach with friends. Admittedly I do have more anxiety than I used to though.

yo i too have more anxiety, and i believe it may be from using amphetamines as well. the other day i got so much relief from even taking a benadryl.

 

[jamesmartin]

If you abuse amps your receptors will eventually die from over stimulation.
Once in a while is okay though as your brain can recover .


Meth is a totally different story though. The stuff is neurotoxicity and affects both dopamine and serotonin (amps do affect serotonin by very little, but not anywhere near as much as meth does)

 

[Jabberwocky]

^you need to post around her a lot more often... Even if you are affiliated with NIDA

burn the witch

there's some great contributions in here

 

[xxl]

So, yes, while post-cocaine (etc) users can and do experience happiness after prolonged drug use, it is unlikely that they'll find anything as rewarding as a good cocaine binge... and that's exactly the problem: the memories of such extremely euphoric times don't go away easily so life might always seem relatively "sub-par" to the addict.

That's true but to many those memories only produce short-lived craving. Besides, they are mixed in the sense that you also remember the bad come-downs, the hassle, the paranoid crises. They are not like memories of a good time you would like to relive any time. You think "Gosh I'd like to have some good coke right now". But 5 minutes later you think "No, I don't really want to go down that road again."

 

[sir_thizzalot]

oh yeah, and Captain:

I'm not trying to instigate anything, but please refrain from bringing in anecdotal personal experience in regards to a question that is best answered with empirical data from scientific trials. I'm not saying your response has no use, but it certainly is inconclusive.

You saying, "Hey I feel fine" is definitely not a biomarker for detrimental effects on the dopaminergic pathway.

He did word it that way, but his point was if you show enough moderation drugs like this can be used without any noticable negative effect in the long run. Key being enough moderation.

You word your other post like meth addicts have no hope of being happy when they quit, which we know is wrong (from, well, knowing people who used for years and seemingly keep getting better over the years after stopping!). You were saying that in one part of the brain the damage is permanent, so I am assuming that other parts may be what heal (and those healing parts are what make those mentioned ex-addicts seem to get partially better)? I'm not trying to question you I'm really just trying to understand.

 

[Jabberwocky]

anecdotal experience is always important along with the empirical data from studies. that's what this forum is for as well, to share our opinions.

 

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

i know for a fact that amp/meth can cause depression for a while after quitting, but again, i am sure some of the damage can (and is) repaired by the brain after quitting. wouldnt taking like deprynil (or however its spelled..ironically that has a methamphetamine skeleton on it i think) speed up dopamine recovery? not all of amphetamine euphoria is from the dopamine release (most is though)

 

[burn out]

i'm interested in hearing peoples experiences with long term amphetamine use, as well as the physiological effects, specifically the effects upon the cardiovascular and digestive systems.

 

[dokomo]

oh yeah, and Captain:

I'm not trying to instigate anything, but please refrain from bringing in anecdotal personal experience in regards to a question that is best answered with empirical data from scientific trials. I'm not saying your response has no use, but it certainly is inconclusive.

You saying, "Hey I feel fine" is definitely not a biomarker for detrimental effects on the dopaminergic pathway.

We think a lot alike

My undergrad major was psychology with an emphasis on neuroscience. Learning (and seeing) just exactly what methamphetamine does to the brain really impacted me, made me resolve to never try the stuff.

 

[Vaya]

Amphetamine is less neurotoxic than methamphetamine, but I suspect that in high recreational doses there could be some form of damage. There is not as much research out there for recreational doses of amphetamine so it's hard to say for sure.

This is a pretty good sentiment. Long-term high dose use of amphetamines leads to what is known as inversion, which is when the dopamine receptors of the post-synaptic neuron, due to the newly-sustained dopamine in the synapse, recede into the post-synaptic neuron body. This, obviously, leads to a decrease in the amount of dopaminergic receptors in the brain. The region of highest neuronal damage to the dopamine receptors is in the prefrontal cortex (PFC). It's like the phrase "All dressed up and nowhere to go." The drug is administered, and an excess of dopamine accumulates in the synapses. But the dendrites of the neuron that is supposed to receive the signal cannot accept as much dopamine binding and has to turn most away - leading to decreased drug effects and other body-wide side effects.

I suppose this isn't all that surprising, since the PFC is part of the reward system (nucleus accumbens/limbic system > Ventral tegmental area (VTA) > PFC) and the frontal lobes, i believe, mark the region of highest dompaminergic neuron concentration. Parkinson's disease, marked by a dramatic loss of dopamine function, shows greatest brain impact on fMRI scans in the frontal lobes, and specifically the PFC.

So, some stuff to think about.

~ vaya

 

[Provoke]

I don't think it's all doom-and-gloom though. One can still use dopamine-receptor agonists to make up for the loss in natural dopaminergic signaling. And I wouldn't say the damage is irreversible. Stem cell therapy is already being tested to restore dopaminergic function in Parkinson's patients. There's no reason this would not work for damage caused by methamphetamine over-use.

Stem cell research was not exactly developed for that purpose and I doubt that anyone will repair him once they find out what caused the damage even if they have the technology to do so. I say be smart, stay safe and avoid any damage in the first place by not taking tons.

 

[amber_dawn]

What about at therapeutic levels? What about all these kids on adderall for years and years? Are their parents unknowingly destroying their children's chances of being happy?

Where is the line which makes something "high dose" anyway?
Is 30 mg a day of adderall "high dose"? Or are we talking 100 plus mg a day?

 

[Provoke]

What about at therapeutic levels? What about all these kids on adderall for years and years? Are their parents unknowingly destroying their children's chances of being happy?

Where is the line which makes something "high dose" anyway?
Is 30 mg a day of adderall "high dose"? Or are we talking 100 plus mg a day?

Normal dose is 5 mg in the morning, 5 mg in the afternoon. 10mg in the morning and 5 mg in the afternoon is the maximum recommended dosage for therapeutic purposes.
Anything that goes over 40mg a day is considered recreational but even so the damage is minimal. To damage your receptors you would have to do 100+ a day for a few years.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^yeah, big difference in the long term effect of therapeutic adderall vs. recreational meth. The amount of damage is generally proportionate to consumption levels.

 

[Provoke]

^yeah, big difference in the long term effect of therapeutic adderall vs. recreational meth. The amount of damage is generally proportionate to consumption levels.

I think with d-amphetamine there's a threshold of damage/no-damage, in other words, if someone consumes 100mg/day for 3 years and sustains heavy damage, someone doing 20mg a day for 15 years would sustain very low brain damage, if any at all. For what I know you could take 20mg/day for 50 years and not sustain any damage.
In other words staying under the 40mg a day threshold will most likely keep you safe. Going over the 40mg a day threshold should not be done at all or on occasion, not more than once or twice a year if you really wana see what it does.

 

[LivingOnValium]

lol

100mg d-amphetamine is a decent recreational dose

 

[Moredopamine]

Valium, if one needs 100mg of d-amphetamine for "recreation," then imo that person shouldn't be using d-amphetamine anymore.

 

[stray cat]

provoke:

is 10mg in the morning, 5 mg at night the maximum recommended therapeutic dosage for d-amp alone or for adderall (which is only partially d-amp)?

it seems like most people i know who get one or the other are prescribed much higher dosages- w/ dex, usually something like 5 x 5mg tablets daily, while w/ add, much much more.

 

[Provoke]

provoke:

is 10mg in the morning, 5 mg at night the maximum recommended therapeutic dosage for d-amp alone or for adderall (which is only partially d-amp)?

it seems like most people i know who get one or the other are prescribed much higher dosages- w/ dex, usually something like 5 x 5mg tablets daily, while w/ add, much much more.

Both. Depends also on severity of the disease that's being treated. Children dosage with ADHD is 2.5mg/day of Adderal, but adults with narcolepsy can be prescribed up to 60mg maximum, same for dex.
I was talking about the maximum recommended dose for people like you and me, not the ones who fall asleep on the street and like...fall on the sidewalk. Those people are probably more resistant to any stimulants due to the nature of their disease.