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Stimulants Do amphetamines burn up receptors in your brain?

P

PureEuphoria

Greenlighter
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
18
I'm about to obtain a RX for a stimulant, and before I start taking them I want to know somthing... I've heard that once you do amphetamines for a long time or in high doses or if u smoke meth, you burn up receptors in your brain or somthing so when u quit taking the pills you pretty much won't have any dopamine ever again..I know it drains it for a short amount of time, but forever? I don't want to screw my brain up to where I can't be happy without pills...
 
Methamphetamine is neurotoxic to dopaminergic neurons, especially those in the substantia nigra. These neurons do not regenerate when damaged or destroyed.

Amphetamine is less neurotoxic than methamphetamine, but I suspect that in high recreational doses there could be some form of damage. There is not as much research out there for recreational doses of amphetamine so it's hard to say for sure.
 
Yes, long term amphetamine use can cause the brain to associate only it with pleasure.

The good news is that as long as you only use them for a couple nights of fun a month and give your brain time to fully recover before using them again, you should be fine. It is when you become dependent on them for everyday life and don't give yourself time to rebalance in between doses than your brain chemistry begins to change.

I've done a lot of amphetamines ( amongst other drugs) and my ability to feel pleasure from normal things isn't altered. I still feel happy when I score high on a test or am having a fun day at the beach with friends. Admittedly I do have more anxiety than I used to though.
 
My feeling is that your receptors only cease to work with respect to that particular drug. You become unable to enjoy the drug, ie unable to get high on that particular drug (and maybe on other, closely related drugs). Otherwise generalizations like "once you become addicted to crack/coke/speed you will forever become unable to enjoy normal life" is untrue. It's prohibitionist propaganda. If you kick the habit you can go back to baseline except you're tolerant to the drug. It's the drug you're no longer able to enjoy, not life.
 
xxl said:
My feeling is that your receptors only cease to work with respect to that particular drug. You become unable to enjoy the drug, ie unable to get high on that particular drug (and maybe on other, closely related drugs). Otherwise generalizations like "once you become addicted to crack/coke/speed you will forever become unable to enjoy normal life" is untrue. It's prohibitionist propaganda. If you kick the habit you can go back to baseline except you're tolerant to the drug. It's the drug you're no longer able to enjoy, not life.
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This is mostly true, but the whole part about having difficulty enjoying life can occur when a significant amount of dopamine receptors are damaged and unable to function properly. This can lead to symptoms of depression and even depression itself.
 
From everything I've read and heard, damage from meth/amphetamine neurotoxicity isn't permanent. The brain does slowly repair itself over time.
 
Amphetamine itself isn't neurotoxic per se but it does have toxic byproducts, namely free radicals. (see, for example, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060405233546.htm) I'm not aware of any evidence that responsible amphetamine use causes any significant damage.

"Wells and doctoral students Winnie Jeng, Annmarie Ramkissoon and Toufan Parman theorized that prostaglandin H synthase (PHS) -- an enzyme that synthesizes a range of hormones throughout mammalian life -- is the catalyst that transforms amphetamines into free radical products that react with oxygen in the body to enhance the formation of highly toxic reactive oxygen species"

Interestingly, aspirin inhibits the PHS enzyme. I take aspirin when I use amphetamine since I figure the worst it could do is nothing at all. :)

There is also some proof that NMDA antagonists are protective against amphetamine's neurotoxic effects. Indeed NMDA antagonists may also delay amphetamine tolerance.
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18455739)

Otherwise generalizations like "once you become addicted to crack/coke/speed you will forever become unable to enjoy normal life" is untrue. It's prohibitionist propaganda
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You're right to a degree but highly-euphoric doses of the dopaminergics you detail provide well-being that is generally unattainable via natural activities. So, yes, while post-cocaine (etc) users can and do experience happiness after prolonged drug use, it is unlikely that they'll find anything as rewarding as a good cocaine binge... and that's exactly the problem: the memories of such extremely euphoric times don't go away easily so life might always seem relatively "sub-par" to the addict.
 
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Sweet P said:
From everything I've read and heard, damage from meth/amphetamine neurotoxicity isn't permanent. The brain does slowly repair itself over time.
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I'm not targeting you out or anything here Sweet P. With enough money and connections for that crystal you could develop a life-long habit. As xxl stated some of the damage is permanent and cannot be re-grown. This goes 10x for daily users who binge on a 1/2 gram to 1 gram of Meth.

Some parts of the brain regrow, others don't so it depends on the intensity of your habit?

Moderate Amphetamine (addys, vyvanse, ritalin, concerta) use can be very use-full, and when you take it as prescribed I believe its much safer than meth-amphetamine.

Sort Answer: Yes.
 
Sweet P said:
From everything I've read and heard, damage from meth/amphetamine neurotoxicity isn't permanent. The brain does slowly repair itself over time.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that very damaged dopamine cells/transmitters/whatever(can't think of which it was that really mattered, or is it both?) can often partially (maby fully) heal, but may end up being different then they originally were. I worded that badly... it's like they still function, but function a bit differently then they would have had they never been damaged.

I've read that for big meth addicts after 18 months being clean they on average had 80% of an average persons dopamine activity and it keeps getting better over time. Can't remember where I read that but I know it had no reason to lie(may have just been wrong, though, who knows).
How's it been going Sweet P ?
 
skoat said:
I'm not targeting you out or anything here Sweet P. With enough money and connections for that crystal you could develop a life-long habit. As xxl stated some of the damage is permanent and cannot be re-grown. This goes 10x for daily users who binge on a 1/2 gram to 1 gram of Meth.
Click to expand...

I think most big time meth addicts use much more than 1/2 gram a day. Like a few grams(meaning up to 2) a day wouldn't surprise me much. I'm talking about normal use, big binges set aside. Somebody else will know better though.

EDIT: and Sweet P said 1-2 a day a few posts up. Ima start reading all new posts before quoting new ones.
 
dokomo is spot on in regards to this issue. he is 100% correct.

Sweet P, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you are wrong.

(Meth)Amphetamine causes loss of dopaminergic axons in the substantia nigra. So, while the cell body does remain intact, it cannot propagate action potentials to the dendrites of subsequent postsynaptic neurons. This damage is IRREVERSIBLE.
....I know what I am talking about. Chronic abuse of these drugs also does one more thing that is incredibly detrimental. Over time, the amphetamine will actually reverse the action of the proton pump in the Vesicular Monoamine Transporter. This basically causes vesicular dopamine to become synaptic and leaves amphetamines as the sole occupant of dopaminergic vesicles. Also, the proton gradient is lost; as such, it is impossible for the vesicles to pump dopamine across their membrane, as the gradient which performed this function has been lost. The net result of this is a brain which looks very similar to that of a Parkinson's patient; almost nonexistent vesicular dopamine, downgraded postsynaptic dopamine receptors, and a complete loss of dopaminergic axons in the Substantia Nigra.

Please trust me on this issue, as I have performed a plethora of research in this area for the NIH and the NIDA.

Best of luck
 
oh yeah, and Captain:

I'm not trying to instigate anything, but please refrain from bringing in anecdotal personal experience in regards to a question that is best answered with empirical data from scientific trials. I'm not saying your response has no use, but it certainly is inconclusive.

You saying, "Hey I feel fine" is definitely not a biomarker for detrimental effects on the dopaminergic pathway.
 
^you need to post around her a lot more often... Even if you are affiliated with NIDA ;)
 
JASS92 said:
dokomo is spot on in regards to this issue. he is 100% correct.

Sweet P, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you are wrong.

(Meth)Amphetamine causes loss of dopaminergic axons in the substantia nigra. So, while the cell body does remain intact, it cannot propagate action potentials to the dendrites of subsequent postsynaptic neurons. This damage is IRREVERSIBLE.
....I know what I am talking about. Chronic abuse of these drugs also does one more thing that is incredibly detrimental. Over time, the amphetamine will actually reverse the action of the proton pump in the Vesicular Monoamine Transporter. This basically causes vesicular dopamine to become synaptic and leaves amphetamines as the sole occupant of dopaminergic vesicles. Also, the proton gradient is lost; as such, it is impossible for the vesicles to pump dopamine across their membrane, as the gradient which performed this function has been lost. The net result of this is a brain which looks very similar to that of a Parkinson's patient; almost nonexistent vesicular dopamine, downgraded postsynaptic dopamine receptors, and a complete loss of dopaminergic axons in the Substantia Nigra.

Please trust me on this issue, as I have performed a plethora of research in this area for the NIH and the NIDA.

Best of luck
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I don't think it's all doom-and-gloom though. One can still use dopamine-receptor agonists to make up for the loss in natural dopaminergic signaling. And I wouldn't say the damage is irreversible. Stem cell therapy is already being tested to restore dopaminergic function in Parkinson's patients. There's no reason this would not work for damage caused by methamphetamine over-use.
 
Moredopamine said:
I don't think it's all doom-and-gloom though. One can still use dopamine-receptor agonists to make up for the loss in natural dopaminergic signaling. And I wouldn't say the damage is irreversible. Stem cell therapy is already being tested to restore dopaminergic function in Parkinson's patients. There's no reason this would not work for damage caused by methamphetamine over-use.
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Cane - Thank you! I will be sure to do so. Sorry the last few years have left me really busy and unable to come on whatsoever. I am back now and look forward to contributing valuable information to this community. I look forward to learning many new things as well.

Moredopamine - What I mean is that at this point, there is nothing that can restore the function. Will there be something in the future? Undoubtedly yes; and from the sounds of it, it will be people like you on the frontier implementing wonderful new ways in which we improve the overall quality of life.
 
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