You won't feel anything off 1mg of MDMA or even 20. I forgot the dose but there is a specific threshold in which you need to take in order to feel something off it. And doing that daily would cause a lot more harm than good.
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Do all the people that talk about bad effects on this forum come from abuse?
- Thread starter mtxj30
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I know you're not suppose to feel better instantly, it would take time like any other medication. How would you know anyway, nobody's ever tried it before. That's only 30MG per month, less than 1/3 of a regular, small dose. Anti-depressants release serotonin slowly over time and they're suppose to eventually make you feel better, and they say you don't even notice a difference until months after. MDMA does the same thing and it's known to help with anxiety/Repetitive thoughts/PTSD, etc., who knows if it would work or not, there's people who do 200MG weekly with no side-effects. I doubt 30MG a month would do any harm, and if it did, you could just stop. I'd like to see someone test it out but you're right it wouldn't be totally safe unless you had a lab and scientists/doctors etc.
rickolasnice
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Yeah but you was implying that most of these horror story threads are caused by products other than MDMA..
Well the thread is about the horror stories on this forum.. I have seen very little to none threads where the OP has tested their gear and still used it..
Like I said in the edit.. i got confused and thought i was in a different thread of a similar nature.. it does't make sense here
I was blaming the attitude taken by posters (the regs) rather than the noobs coming here looking for advice cos they had a bad comedown.. People go way OTT with the strictness of rules that it gives off the impression that using MDMA 2 or 3 times in a shortish period of time will cause long life depression and anxiety.. So when someone goes away and breaks the rule they start obsessing about having done serious long term damage cos they're on a bit of a rough come down.
StrutterGear
Bluelight Crew
Yeah but you was implying that most of these horror story threads are caused by products other than MDMA..
Well the thread is about the horror stories on this forum.. I have seen very little to none threads where the OP has tested their gear and still used it..
Like I said in the edit.. i got confused and thought i was in a different thread of a similar nature.. it does't make sense here
I was blaming the attitude taken by posters (the regs) rather than the noobs coming here looking for advice cos they had a bad comedown.. People go way OTT with the strictness of rules that it gives off the impression that using MDMA 2 or 3 times in a shortish period of time will cause long life depression and anxiety.. So when someone goes away and breaks the rule they start obsessing about having done serious long term damage cos they're on a bit of a rough come down.
1. I think you'll find the the majority of these 'horror stories' are, on the majority, coming from people based in countries like the US. America has a notoriously bad MDMA market and the chances are if you were stupid enough not to test it, and you have these sort of symptoms, it is likely it wasnt even MDMA at all. If the majority of the stories were coming from the UK which has a notoriously good MDMA market then it would be different. I'm not implying anything, it could well have been MDMA, but it probably wasn't.
2. I have.
4. I think you have a warped view of what the 'regs' do. If you look at my replies to the majority of these threads its "exercise, stop taking drugs, ride the comedown, you will be fine". Whipping anyone up into a hysteria when they probably will be okay in a couple days is a stupid thing to do. I never ever give out death sentences for people, I've beeen criticised by other mods for my sometimes 'lax' approach to waiting in between doses etc. I have abused MDMA to a degree and I'm fine. I don't suffer from any anxiety and if I get any depression it's equal to about a 30 seconds random drop in mood a couple days later. People who are prone to depression and anxiety will exaggerate the side effects IMO.
I'm on the exact same side as you here... Breaking the guidelines now and again isn't going to kill you or likely cause you any damage. But I've read plenty of threads where people are sharing a quarter Oz with a friend over three days, and now are complaining they dont feel that great. They whip themselves into panic by reading other peoples threads, who have self diagnosed themselves with some obscure syndrome.
indeed it is sad. how many people come into ER due to alcohol related issues in comparison? and alcohol is legal
A good number. On Saturday night, I would say half or more have been drinking or were hurt by someone who has. MVA (Motor Vehicle Accidents) involving alcohol is damn near 100% on Saturday night. I don't have the actual stats, but it is almost all of them, especially after midnight. If it wasn't the patient drinking, it was the other car that had someone intoxicated behind the wheel.
That was a good question. It changed my perceptions and I will never drink and drive and rarely drink anyway. If I do, it is no more than two. (Not good on my meds anyway and too much more and I will get the spins. I also try not to drive between 12am and 3:30am. That's when the most accidents come in and the cops say half of all people on the road during those hours have been drinking, particularly on the weekends.
LSDMDMA&
Bluelighter
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Folley
Bluelighter
^ I think the point was that he almost died because he didn't take MDMA ![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
laugh
Ex-Bluelighter
Which I guess reflects upon what strutter has posted?
When something imitates a chemical like dopamine or serotonin in your brain the response is to produce less of it. Also for a short while after taking mdma there is reduced activity of tryptophane hydroxylase, the enzyme responsible for synthesizing serotonin.
So I don't think it could be used medically in that way, it has been used for counseling/mediation purposes tho. Before people started using it recreationally labeled it a "drug" and the hammer came down.
Anti depressants release serotonin? Which ones? SSRIs inhibit the reuptake of serotonin which is NOT the same thing. Mdma does both I believe which is why those few hours are so good, I'm pretty sure it leaves you with lower levels for a lot longer than that though.
Do you know if the 'pills' ingested during the study were administered by the researchers? Usually in research, they would call it MDMA and state the exact mG of MDMA adminstered. By saying 'pills' it gives no indication of what they even took and suggests they brought it on the street, which I read one study which did that, but please correct me if they did not. I don't even understand how studies which involve ad libitium consumption (free-choice/self-administered) can get published. What is the point in examining the cognitive functioning of an 'Ecstasy user' based on their self-reported consumption of random pills brought off the street. For all they know it could be absolutely anything. Then they have the audacity to say they 'alleviated methodological constraints' and that even '10 pills' saw memory deficits. What the fuck is 10 pills? 100mg MDMA? Pro plus pills brought from the local boots retail? Certaintly not convinced by that link nor the contention that even one use of MDMA can cause lasting effects.
Unless the study administers pharmaceutical MDMA then, at least in my eyes, its completely void. Like I said, if they did control that then I take everything back and I will reconsider my own judgements. Also in research I often worry about bias. I had a big debate with one of my sports lecturers regarding the true efficiency of some sports performance supplements such as Gatorade, Protein drinks, Creatine etc. Often these companies will fund this research and anything that does not show their product in a 'positive light' will be silenced or the results will be manipulated to portray something else. Similarly in Drugs research, if its funded by the Government, I worry about this sort of effect occurring. Unfortunately not even research is isolated from the bullshit influences of society.
Mazzab
Bluelighter
LSDMDMA&11573680 said:
Correct. Bad pills 19 years old. Feels like forever ago but it made me test all my gear now. Learned a major lesson. That was meh 7 years ago. I took a hiatus for two years after. Then decided to use in more of a responsible manor.^ I think the point was that he almost died because he didn't take MDMA
Improperly controlled study produces predicted outcome! More at 11.
Which means that ALL of them used cannabis, and that 66 of them used other drugs. But it was absolutely, definitely MDMA that caused the impairment, right?
So if I roll balls on Saturday night and underperform a bit on Monday, that is appropriate evidence that MDMA is responsible and has caused lasting damage, as long as I didn't smoke weed on Monday? Then, if we're willing to ignore the glaring flaws in the control of the experiment, even the conclusions drawn from the data are questionable.
If you scroll down and look at their tables of values of score change for the memory, intelligence, attention span, etc, the numbers are very questionable.
In table 4, both users and non-users decreased by between 0 and 3 points. But the users decreased by LESS, as much as 1.55 points less on one of the tasks. Then, in figure 1 below, their evidence that memory was impaired for the user group is that the users had a score change of 2.04 more. I would argue that if this is acceptable evidence to demonstrate that memory is impaired, the 1.55 advantage shown by users in table 4 is sufficient evidence to make a case for MDMA causing an improvement in the Stroop test.
...But of course that's ridiculous, because it doesn't support what a journal called "Addiction Journal" set out to prove in the first place. They weren't there to find the truth, they were there to prove the truth that they already knew.
Also excellent points. Psychologists writing stuff that is intended to be medical literature is a joke. Lead author is a psychologist, not a doctor or a psychiatrist.
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futura2012
Bluelighter
Probably not but heres a paragraph from one of the studies I was reading that suggests that a "general finding" emerges and with so many studies being carried out there is certainly a very strong general concensus that memory damage could result.
There is a large and growing body of evidence from a variety of studies with humans that
MDMA use can have long-lasting effects on memory. None of these studies are perfect,
as they all have methodological concerns such as concurrent use of other drugs (it is
apparently impossible to find but a few MDMA users who do not use other illicit
substances, particularly marijuana). In addition, results vary with the assessment used.
Nonetheless, the general finding that emerges across all of the studies is that MDMA
does impact memory abilities in ways that could adversely affect normal functioning on
every day tasks. Moreover, the relationship between memory problems and MDMA use
appears to have a dose-dependent relationship, that is, the more MDMA used, the greater
the deficit.
Quite an arrogance to assume just because the studies arent using medical grade MDMA all the findings are false and useless.
With all these studies its going to be virtually impossible to iron out users of just pure MDMA and no poly drug use as pretty much all of us use other drugs. However by looking at the average score of whats happening it certainly seems that memory damage from MDMA is very possible.
Sure if you follow the rules with testing, dose, redose etc then this risk is reduced but im certainly not convinced that one is immune from this potential danger.
Theres an awful lot of them all saying the same thing to assume all biased studies to produce predictable outcome is a bit far out.
Finding a user that is clean from any other drug is going to be hard. The studies are general findings I dont think any of them are going to be clinically perfect just by the very nature of the topic in hand. Some may have smoked weed that weekend some may not.
That was just one study of many. I think to assume every single researcher out there suggesting MDMA damages memory is on some kind of crusade to twist the truth is a little OTT.
Heres another few more studies about MDMA and memory performance. Im sure you can pick holes in them all but theres an awful lot of studies out there pretty much saying the same thing about MDMA potentially causing harm to memory.
Just a search in Google with the term "MDMA Memory" will reveal a host more.
http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/68/6/719.full.pdf
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdm...ogy_1/2000_wareing_brit-psychology_1_text.pdf
http://www.neurology.org/content/51/6/1532.short
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-003-1755-9
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-003-1463-5
http://archives.drugabuse.gov/pdf/MDMAConf.pdf
xxxyakinikuxxx
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^ Futura, as usual a very level-headed, thoughtful post. I personally have never understood why people go so far out of their way to defend mdma. To deny potential negative effects from mdma simply because a 'perfect' study has never been conducted seems to be a case of wishful thinking/burying your head in the sand.
The general trend in research points to mdma use having a myriad of negative psychological/cognitive consequences. Just because the research hasn't controlled for every possible variable doesn't discount this.
Dismissing the studies as imperfect is the same kindof strategy the tobacco industry used/climate change deniers use to confound a given issue in their favor. Conclusively proving something is always more difficult than denying it outright. Given the picture that is slowly emerging, however, wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution?
Refuting the studies because of concurrent drug use perplexes me as well. Considering that most people who use mdma also use other substances, are not the results of this research of important practical benefit? If I'm going to use other substances along with mdma, it would be extremely valuable to know the potential negative effects of this conbined usage.
I'm not saying there aren't any positive aspects to using mdma. I think that when used carefully it can be a truly amazing experience. However, to deny potential dangers basically because of a research technicality, seems to be irresponsible IMO.
The general trend in research points to mdma use having a myriad of negative psychological/cognitive consequences. Just because the research hasn't controlled for every possible variable doesn't discount this.
Dismissing the studies as imperfect is the same kindof strategy the tobacco industry used/climate change deniers use to confound a given issue in their favor. Conclusively proving something is always more difficult than denying it outright. Given the picture that is slowly emerging, however, wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution?
Refuting the studies because of concurrent drug use perplexes me as well. Considering that most people who use mdma also use other substances, are not the results of this research of important practical benefit? If I'm going to use other substances along with mdma, it would be extremely valuable to know the potential negative effects of this conbined usage.
I'm not saying there aren't any positive aspects to using mdma. I think that when used carefully it can be a truly amazing experience. However, to deny potential dangers basically because of a research technicality, seems to be irresponsible IMO.
If you're ready to throw out the data that suggest that MDMA increases improvement in the cognitive ability measured by the Stroop test, why are you so willing to accept the data that suggest that memory is impaired? I can go ahead and answer that for you, probably: confirmation bias.
Most of you here are more than ready to go on a tirade about how studies are cherry-picked and rigged by the pharmaceutical industry to produce the desired results, and you are absolutely right. Why is it so believable in that case but not believable here? You think its an uncommon thing for studies to be crafted in such a way as to produce the results desired by those funding the studies? There have been meta-studies done on the studies to measure exactly this effect.
I'm not even claiming that MDMA doesn't cause damage, I'm simply saying that I've read a lot of studies and the ones that DO include proper controls, and particularly the ones that do their measurements after a period of abstinence from MDMA (and other drugs) tend to show little to no difference in receptors or in subjective cognitive ability.
Most of you here are more than ready to go on a tirade about how studies are cherry-picked and rigged by the pharmaceutical industry to produce the desired results, and you are absolutely right. Why is it so believable in that case but not believable here? You think its an uncommon thing for studies to be crafted in such a way as to produce the results desired by those funding the studies? There have been meta-studies done on the studies to measure exactly this effect.
I'm not even claiming that MDMA doesn't cause damage, I'm simply saying that I've read a lot of studies and the ones that DO include proper controls, and particularly the ones that do their measurements after a period of abstinence from MDMA (and other drugs) tend to show little to no difference in receptors or in subjective cognitive ability.
The reason for that is because the people crafting the studies will use the results of concurrent drug use to apply whatever damage they are able to perceive to the drug they wish to target. The users in the study used MDMA, marijuana, and ___ other drugs. They then appeared to have some memory impairment. Does that adequately demonstrate that MDMA causes memory impairment? Are you seriously telling me that you have never heard it claimed that marijuana causes memory impairment?
If I'm NOT going to mix other substances with MDMA, don't I want to know the truth about MDMA alone instead of a blanket statement that is not adequately proven?
I'm not claiming that studies are useless because they haven't controlled for every variable. The political climate makes that impossible. But to make far-reaching conclusions based on very limited studies is a big mistake.
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futura2012
Bluelighter
Of course everyone will have their own opinion with bias influences.
It just seems theres a lot more negative reports than positive ones thats all.
Sure the studies of certain pharmaceuticals by certain companies can be rather sceptical but what we are talking about here isnt just a particular study by one company or one organisation these are loads of studies from 1998 - present day from all over the world. It would seem very unlikely they would all be biased with the sole purpose of trying to scarmonger potential MDMA users this is too far out. With so many studies all saying the same thing there has to be something in it.
Could you post some references / links would be interested to read.
What about all the other studies in regards to memory imparement? This was a flaw you found in one study but as already mentioned the general concensus regardless of polydrug use or not seems to indicate there is a likely chance MDMA may cause memory damage. Surely you cant dismiss the same message from so many sources?
Exstazy
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I personally beleive most damage done by "MDMA" comes from other shitty drugs sold as mdma or mixed in with it.
Only time i felt like shit after rolling was when i got some weird fucked up shit. THe other times i got real stuff and I ONLY had afterglow with the good shit.
ofc abusing real mdma takes its toll, but i usually wait at least 60 days
Only time i felt like shit after rolling was when i got some weird fucked up shit. THe other times i got real stuff and I ONLY had afterglow with the good shit.
ofc abusing real mdma takes its toll, but i usually wait at least 60 days
futura2012
Bluelighter
I do agree with you but note in this statement you say mixed with it. This is what happened to me MDMA mixed with piperazine and it seriousley fucked me up. Despite this some people do get fucked up by MDMA alone. As a result my conclusion is the drug is not VERY safe as some claim.
If you follow a set of rules that in the general sceme of things are fairly unknown to the majority of the MDMA drug taking populous then you will likely come out relatively unscathed however, if you dont follow these rules then things can turn pretty sour at a given moment.
In my eyes this is not a VERY safe drug it certainly has its fair share of obstacles and dangers.