Discussion - Creditability - is it ours or the universe's to take?

[Shambles]

Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock. Wait. No. I mean beautiful green tree python. That snake. Can I purchase it?

Only if you can name it. Snake God chooses his own.

 

[Shambles]

I have a dry satiric nature I'd apologize for if it weren't brilliant.

But I must point out that if we're discussing theology, the polytheistic religions have just as much a right to stand here and talk shit about god as anyone else, I think.

I've mentioned Hinduism so far. Very few people pick up on it. Confusing it with polytheism is the major non sequitur. That's not what it is at all. As far from that as is possible to get in fact. Personal bugbear of mine is all.

Buddhism is but an offshoot or sidebranching of Hinduism. If you haven't gotten even the very most basic grasp of the latter you could never hope to have any real understanding of the former I'd suggest. That's not to say that I do either... but I do know the very most basic tenets at least.

 

[Thou]

Only if you can name it. Snake God chooses his own.

I'd name him 'THE BIG ELECTRON'



woah.

I've mentioned Hinduism so far. Very few people pick up on it. Confusing it with polytheism is the major non sequitur. That's not what it is at all. As far from that as is possible to get in fact. Personal bugbear of mine is all.

Buddhism is but an offshoot or sidebranching of Hinduism. If you haven't gotten even the very most basic grasp of the latter you could never hope to have any real understanding of the former I'd suggest. That's not to say that I do either... but I do know the very most basic tenets at least.

You know your stuff.

Alan Watts said that Buddhism was 'Hinduism stripped for export.'

Hindiusm was a culture just as much as it was a religion essentially, so buddhism picked off what it needed and left the rest.

Zen is where it is at in my honest opinion, and mindfulness as well. Thich Nhat Hahn has some great works comparing Jesus and Buddha if I recall correctly.

Jesus the person sounded like a cool guy, but everyone kind of did what they told him not to do, which was make an idolatries kind of racket with him after they murdered him for seemingly no reason at all. Well, I guess that's what martyrs are for.

 

[Shambles]

^ I actually disagree with that. I think Hinduism has more depth than Buddhism does in any form I'm aware of. Don't get me wrong, I Zen as a philosophy, but it doesn't deliver much beyond that for those looking for more. It oversimplifies in my opinion. I am not religious - I don't 'believe' any of 'em - but have always found Hindu philosophy (as opposed to religion and culture - much of which I have major problems with) to... resonate in ways no other religion or relgion-like belief system can encompass. It feels closer to some kind of truth. Buddhism I think of mostly as a form of self-improvement. That's also fine. But it doesn't answer any of the Big Questions (as it were) for me. Oversimplification as I said. Or in some forms it descends into an excess of excess. Buddhism is a very varied religion (aren't they all) but no version I'm familiar with seems to offer more than... self-satisfaction. Inner peace is great. But there's more out there (or in here if we're being a bit stricter about these things) than feeling nice and being a bit smug about it (which describes every (self-proclaimed) Buddhist I've ever personally known). I'm sure there's better examples out there but there's a lot of the type I think of when I think of Buddhism and they - frankly - get right on my tits usually.

I'd name him 'THE BIG ELECTRON'

Not bad. Liking the reference to Feynman's Single Electron Theory... whether intended or not.

 

[Inflorescence]

Totally off topic BUT I used to have an electrician called Ron and he had bussiness cards printed up with ' Electron' on...he also used to appear in a lot of game shows..weird. Sorry.

 

[Thou]

^ I actually disagree with that. I think Hinduism has more depth than Buddhism does in any form I'm aware of. Don't get me wrong, I Zen as a philosophy, but it doesn't deliver much beyond that for those looking for more. It oversimplifies in my opinion. I am not religious - I don't 'believe' any of 'em - but have always found Hindu philosophy (as opposed to religion and culture - much of which I have major problems with) to... resonate in ways no other religion or relgion-like belief system can encompass. It feels closer to some kind of truth. Buddhism I think of mostly as a form of self-improvement. That's also fine. But it doesn't answer any of the Big Questions (as it were) for me. Oversimplification as I said. Or in some forms it descends into an excess of excess. Buddhism is a very varied religion (aren't they all) but no version I'm familiar with seems to offer more than... self-satisfaction. Inner peace is great. But there's more out there (or in here if we're being a bit stricter about these things) than feeling nice and being a bit smug about it (which describes every (self-proclaimed) Buddhist I've ever personally known). I'm sure there's better examples out there but there's a lot of the type I think of when I think of Buddhism and they - frankly - get right on my tits usually.



Not bad. Liking the reference to Feynman's Single Electron Theory... whether intended or not.

Thank George Carlin for ending his religious bit with the Feynman reference.

I pray to Joe Pesci.

 

[Eveleivibe]

^ I wish I didn't feel I had to even respond to that. If you seriously think I have any interest in taking sides in the midst of the spats you have with Raas you are deeply, deeply mistaken.



Then you miss the point I was making, FUBAR. Christianity was no organised religion initially. It was a sequence of ideas one inspired by - or in direct reaction to - the next one. Nothing we have today bears any relation to any of them. What is called Christianity today would not be recoginised by anybody that knew the man known as Jesus if he existed as a single man. None of them.

The reason Christianity took off so well and became embedded is because initially it gave hope - in various forms, very, very varied forms - of a life without slavery and misery and injustice. This life may be hell but there's better to come if only you love your fellow man. That is an idea that has legs. That is an idea even I could live by - and try to. But that is not what Christianity is now because it became the handy state religion - organised, Catholic (Orthodoxy Schism aside) - approved and enforced by the sword. Cos the book (the state approved and abridged version of many, many books) allowed for so much interpretation it allowed for tyranny. It suggested and reinforced that idea... when interpreted by 'people who know about these things'. It became debased. Christianity as now understood is repulsive and abhorrent. Because those that made it an organised religion were base and abhorrent.

I rather suspect the same applies in a wider sense.

Why snap n try to belittle me then, like that? I
May not have "heard voices'" n I'm sorry that you've gone through that experience - but I've been through my own stance of mental ill-health ie depression, OCD, anxiety, stress n addiction. S thus I have my own experience, which differ to yours.

Also I have a psychology degree n have studied mental illness by one the by best psychotherapists in the country (won't quote name for obvious reasons) so it would be almost criminal if I did not "dip into that knowledge from time to time" to share it with others, especially people whom are vulneral n almost willing to try anything to 'get better,' so to speak.

I 'm not 'obsessed' with blood tests - it's a fact n psychiatrists have been banned because they have stated these facts, which would mean BIG money lost for pharmaceutical companies n what-not. I'm sure it's all on Google. Look up R D Laing 'The Divided Self' or Thomas Szasz. It's why I'm angry at myself for taking SSRIs when I preached to others for years that the causes of depression are unknown, but merely mast-assumed. I have now been on them almost two years n goodness knows what I've done to my serotoninergic pathways.

Mental ill-health is more controversial than physical ill-health because things such as scanning n X-ray equipment, blood tests etc can more or less, easily define the problem. But, like it or not, it's not the case with mental ill-health. Doctors can only go on a list of symptoms, history n maybe input from friends / family
Members. But the use of pharmacology n mental illness can be somewhat a frightening one.

I'm sorry if that somewhat offends / annoys you as that was not my intention, but to identify flaws in the system.

Evey

 

[Sammy G]

Evey, there are blood tests which appear to identify certain types of mental illness. They're at a relatively early stage, mostly due to the complexity of the subject matter rather than any evidence that certain conditions 'don't exist'. The same applies for brain imagery - there's currently research being conducted into MRI testing for bipolar disorder, for example. I think the accuracy rate is something like 73% at present.

The sources you cite are decades old and pretty much discredited, if quite interesting and challenging in their time.

Would you prefer to trust decades-old medical theory and expertise over modern methods in the treatment of a disease such as cancer or AIDS?

 

[Eveleivibe]

Evey, there are blood tests which appear to identify certain types of mental illness. They're at a relatively early stage, mostly due to the complexity of the subject matter rather than any evidence that certain conditions 'don't exist'. The same applies for brain imagery - there's currently research being conducted into MRI testing for bipolar disorder, for example. I think the accuracy rate is something like 73% at present.

The sources you cite are decades old and pretty much discredited, if quite interesting and challenging in their time.

Would you prefer to trust decades-old medical theory and expertise over modern methods in the treatment of a disease such as cancer or AIDS?

Truth. I can't argue with any of that. You're right. Those people were from the 70s

Yes brain imaginary, such as fMRI, do detest some forms of mental ill-health / neuropathy. I will need to look at all my study materials to remember the names of the brain parts n specific 'disorders' / mental ill- health comditions so I won't insult your intelligent by acting like I remember off the top of my head. There is one for identifying possible autism.

I complete my Mental health course in 2007 whilst working a 9 - 5 job at the health board, studying a psychology degree, counselling certificate n stage 3 text processing diploma (so May not have taken everything in).

The brain imaginary technique, CAT, fMRI, PET are fascinating stuff. Especially when looking at brain-damaged patients. Years ago this could only be done once the person has died. But I'm going slightly off subject.

I apologise for forgetting n omitting these details n thank you, Sammy G, for correcting me. Your point about looking at current research in terms of AIDS, is also valid. I agree it should be likewise for mental ill-health n I failed to do so in my initial discussion on the subject matter.

Evey

 

[Sammy G]

Yeah, quite right: 'brain imaging' is the proper name for the actual practice, but 'brain imagery' is perfectly acceptable as a description of the results thereof.

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

I have no real belief in the existence of any particular man called Jesus either. Evidence is beyond scant. In fact it mostly leads the other way. That's irrelevant though in this context. Something or someone triggered that sequence of events and whatever or whoever it was set several forms of belief in motion - most (or indeed all) of which have fallen by the wayside. There is no 'original' Christianity cos it was always a plethora of beliefs and variants thereon. You're missing the point entirely. I am no fan - at all - of religion organised or otherwise, but babies and bathwater and all that. That core principle of love is there in all religions. That is what is real. The rest is all flim-flam and bullshit. Or worse in many cases. Much, much worse usually.

I have actively studied religion. That doesn't mean I have any better handle on it than anybody else. I do know where pure prejudice overwhelms underlying truths though and that is perhaps the difference I'm trying to draw attention to.



Aside from your somewhat ignorant use of terminology, yes psychotic individuals hear Voices. They usually hear the Voice of 'god'. Or of some angel or demon related to that concept and their own conception and socialised understanding of such a thing. This is precisely how all religions started. A person hearing Voices they interpret as being gods, angels and/or demons. They tend to get a bit manic and paranoid along the way cos most folks assume they are nuts. Cos they are. Every once in a while people listen and write stuff down. And there's religion for you made flesh.

I say you have nothing to add cos you dismiss very simple questions with non-answers and/or pat responses with zero input of your own. Add something of your own and I'll happily retract that statement.

well sorry if I'm not a psychiatrist and english is not even my first language.
and how do you know that every religion started with people hallucinating god?
that is a bit of a wild assumption.

maybe I'm stupid but I still don't understand why my answer has zero imput of my own.
also I was answering evey, so i don't really see how do you fit in this.

and sorry again for my utter ignorance and misuse of the english language.

 

[Eveleivibe]

To say a person is "nuts" because they hear voices isn't always completely accurate n a bit unfair. I challenged my lecturer on this thing ask what if hearing voices ie the voice of God, is part of their religion. How do yyou determine this in a psychological assessment? She said it gets taken into account; the person's religion.

Comfort I admire you in having English as a second language. You speak her well n you are far from stupid or ignorant. I have a lot of respect for you or anyone else who learns to speak a second language n live amongst people daily having to use that lanuage apart from their own.

Respect, n all that!

Evey

 

[da man]

ok i forgot about this 1, is it only me and Evey who believe in god. if there was no god. How do u explain 1000s of people b4 they die say they see passed loved ones come to get them, Ouji boards though thats a bit different your still taliking to spirits/demons whatever, which in a way proves theres a god and an afterlife. If there was no truth to oyji boards y r they or were they illegal. People whove seen ghosts or spirits which i have witnessed once for sure in my life and 2 other people seen the same thing. IMO GOD is real so are spirits, demons be they lost souls or what i dont know. Anyway theres my opinion

 

[HouseFever]

I think intelligent conscious beings can't imagine death while concious, because you've only thought while being alive. Death somehow seems illogical to the thinking mind. What did you think before you was born? Nothing because you wasn't fucking alive, same when you're dead. I know when I die I wont be an I, I'll be fucking dead.

 

[da man]

how can 1 believe in ghosts and not god, Ghosts are spirits, souls, the part of the body that lives on when we die ang goes to heaven or hell, or for whatever reason stays on earth for longer, whether you have unfinished business or for whatever reason a soul stays on earth. To me i dont see how some 1 can belive in ghosts but not god. To me they have a very close relationship as they are the next step after human life. so a bit closer to God and would know more tahn what we know amybe anyway. All IMO

 

[ColtDan]

nah

 

[da man]

When i used to take pills years ago i had weird experiances listening to music, id be sitting in a chair but could very visually feel or even see my self dancing, a bit of an out of body experiance, and i thought to myself at the time was it something to do with my soul. i was probubly just fucked out my face but there u go

Rave music and pills/Es = bliss

 

[ColtDan]

I've seen novelty glasses and hats on people whilst on MDMA. people that didn't have hats and glasses on

 

[Eveleivibe]

ok i forgot about this 1, is it only me and Evey who believe in god. if there was no god. How do u explain 1000s of people b4 they die say they see passed loved ones come to get them, Ouji boards though thats a bit different your still taliking to spirits/demons whatever, which in a way proves theres a god and an afterlife. If there was no truth to oyji boards y r they or were they illegal. People whove seen ghosts or spirits which i have witnessed once for sure in my life and 2 other people seen the same thing. IMO GOD is real so are spirits, demons be they lost souls or what i dont know. Anyway theres my opinion

Makes sense although I kinda got OCD behaviour after a discussion of Ouija boards when I was 12. Someone told me that a girl called Sarah had played them and went missing, though I did not believe it I had to stay completely still all night, every night encase it happened or encase rats came from the black death. I knew it wouldn't happen but kept thinking it and wasn't able to face the wall encase I disappeared, was the most scary six months of my month. So ouja boards are an EXTREMELY sour point for me. I refuse to discuss them or think of them for obvious reasons.

Evey

 

[parttime crackhead]

well sorry if I'm not a psychiatrist and english is not even my first language.
and how do you know that every religion started with people hallucinating god?
that is a bit of a wild assumption.

maybe I'm stupid but I still don't understand why my answer has zero imput of my own.
also I was answering evey, so i don't really see how do you fit in this.

and sorry again for my utter ignorance and misuse of the english language.

Mate, I think Shambles thought you were saying Christianity is more credible than fairies and ghosts, when you were in fact saying that it is just as, if not less, credible. That's how his replies read to me anyway. Nothing to do with your misuse of the English language, it made perfect sense to me.