Benzos Diazepam Withdrawal

[MagickalKat777]

i got drunk tonight, i fucking hate myseld

It happens man. Don't worry about it. Setbacks are natural.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Well tomorrow is my psych appointment... and I'm scared shitless. I don't know what to do. Do I trust a new doctor might know better than myself and do whatever she suggests or do I stay the course and be headstrong with my own path? I've had so many bad psychiatrist experiences that I have a hard time trusting them but I don't really have much of a choice. I've pinned myself into a corner at this point that I have to get a doctor on my side either way. I stayed on the 7.5mg dose for so long that I don't have enough pills to get me through the rest of my taper. If I don't plan this carefully, I could end up having no choice but to add in gabapentin on my own and then tapering with that (I have 3 bottles of gabapentin available to me including refills, 90 300mg pills in each bottle).

Fuck... I really hate this. Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead than going through this hell but then I think about how stupid that thinking is and that I'm too stubborn to die.

I think I officially have hit a wall and I don't know what to do about it.

 

[Crampz]

Well I say I got drunk, thats an understatement to say the least. I am almost too ashamed to say but I consumed probably a litre of hard liquor, maybe 35mg of zopiclone, 1.5 grams etaqulone and about 15 5mg diazepam tablets. WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING? 7

For the last few days everyone around me has been asking me if I am okay because I cant remember shit or anything I have said/done!

 

[Eveleivibe]

Its ok you relapsed. It's what happens now that matters. What are your plans ? You can still do this. We all slip up at times. No point in dwelling on the past. Get back up n we 're here to support you through it x

Magik I get the trust thing with authoritative figures I do but you need to try to remember that these people are there to help you n if you do not put some trust/be honest then there would be no point in going. Can you not explain that you may not have enough pills for your taper n asked if they could give you a few more? Think of how far you've come - you've done so well. As bad as things seem you are never better off dead ok. You'll get through this. I wish you well with your appointment. Please let us know how things go, k?

Evey x

 

[MagickalKat777]

Well I say I got drunk, thats an understatement to say the least. I am almost too ashamed to say but I consumed probably a litre of hard liquor, maybe 35mg of zopiclone, 1.5 grams etaqulone and about 15 5mg diazepam tablets. WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING? 7

For the last few days everyone around me has been asking me if I am okay because I cant remember shit or anything I have said/done!

We all fuck up man. Its not the end of the world but can I ask you why you had that stuff around when you're tapering? Seems like playing with fire having so many GABAergics at your disposal. Hope you're doing okay man. Just remember... you're still here. As long as you're still alive, you can turn it around

Magik I get the trust thing with authoritative figures I do but you need to try to remember that these people are there to help you n if you do not put some trust/be honest then there would be no point in going. Can you not explain that you may not have enough pills for your taper n asked if they could give you a few more? Think of how far you've come - you've done so well. As bad as things seem you are never better off dead ok. You'll get through this. I wish you well with your appointment. Please let us know how things go, k?

My fears were for nothing. My psychiatrist is an amazing woman. She understands exactly what I'm doing and she supports me fully. Based on the fact that my vitals came back with 132/85 BP with a 120BPM resting pulse, she gave me 100mg Neurontin pills up to 3 times a day and she is having me hold my taper at 7.5mg for the next month. She was ready to write me a script for more 5s but I was honest with her and told her that I had 146 of them so I didn't need one.

She ordered a gene test (which I didn't even know existed) to see if I have a genetic predisposition to be low or overabundant in my enzymes. She also diagnosed me as cyclothymic (also called Bipolar 3) and she believes that my anxiety is most likely my mania being expressed through anxiety, especially given the fact that just a few shots of alcohol will let me push into mania very easily.

We went through my history and she made me feel great because she said that she's impressed that I've been through everything that I've been through and I'm coming to her with a somewhat stable mental mind. I was honest with her about my suicidal thoughts and everything and she completely understood how my debilitating anxiety could cause that.

So she ordered a thyroid stimulating hormone test, a liver and kidney function test, a few other tests, and even a Vitamin D level test (no doctor has ever run that on me before) and she said that since I seemed to do okay with Lamictal and Trileptal in the past, based on my gene expression test, she is thinking that if I come back as Lamictal compatible it might be the best option. She's not terribly concerned about my taper right now. She said if I have to be on it awhile longer, that's fine with her, her concern is getting me stabilized. She also said that it might be more advantageous to move me to Tranxene... Which is funny because when I was in detox, I actually found Tranxene to work MUCH better than Valium so she's on to something.

All in all, it was a VERY productive day and I finally trust a psychiatrist

She didn't even give me any trouble about my drug history. She remarked that its surprising that someone who loved ecstasy as much as me didn't get into coke, heroin, or meth, but she wasn't condescending about it.

 

[Eveleivibe]

That's brilliant news. I'm glad you have a good repore with her n that she's able to help you. Really pleased for you.

 

[Crampz]

We all fuck up man. Its not the end of the world but can I ask you why you had that stuff around when you're tapering? Seems like playing with fire having so many GABAergics at your disposal. Hope you're doing okay man. Just remember... you're still here. As long as you're still alive, you can turn it around



My fears were for nothing. My psychiatrist is an amazing woman. She understands exactly what I'm doing and she supports me fully. Based on the fact that my vitals came back with 132/85 BP with a 120BPM resting pulse, she gave me 100mg Neurontin pills up to 3 times a day and she is having me hold my taper at 7.5mg for the next month. She was ready to write me a script for more 5s but I was honest with her and told her that I had 146 of them so I didn't need one.

She ordered a gene test (which I didn't even know existed) to see if I have a genetic predisposition to be low or overabundant in my enzymes. She also diagnosed me as cyclothymic (also called Bipolar 3) and she believes that my anxiety is most likely my mania being expressed through anxiety, especially given the fact that just a few shots of alcohol will let me push into mania very easily.

We went through my history and she made me feel great because she said that she's impressed that I've been through everything that I've been through and I'm coming to her with a somewhat stable mental mind. I was honest with her about my suicidal thoughts and everything and she completely understood how my debilitating anxiety could cause that.

So she ordered a thyroid stimulating hormone test, a liver and kidney function test, a few other tests, and even a Vitamin D level test (no doctor has ever run that on me before) and she said that since I seemed to do okay with Lamictal and Trileptal in the past, based on my gene expression test, she is thinking that if I come back as Lamictal compatible it might be the best option. She's not terribly concerned about my taper right now. She said if I have to be on it awhile longer, that's fine with her, her concern is getting me stabilized. She also said that it might be more advantageous to move me to Tranxene... Which is funny because when I was in detox, I actually found Tranxene to work MUCH better than Valium so she's on to something.

All in all, it was a VERY productive day and I finally trust a psychiatrist

She didn't even give me any trouble about my drug history. She remarked that its surprising that someone who loved ecstasy as much as me didn't get into coke, heroin, or meth, but she wasn't condescending about it.

aww well done! so happy you are doing much better! Shows there are at least some decent doctors! Tranxene is just another benzo though isnt it? I just looked it up so hmm I'm not sure if that is a great idea.

As to why I had all that stuff, its not so much I had it, that it was at my friends house and I proceeded to well, frankly consume it all because I'm a fucking idiot. I really am just considering quitting without tapering now. It was back on saturday night I took all that stuff and I still feel pretty fucked up tbh. Im just going to try going without anything and see what happens!

 

[MagickalKat777]

That's brilliant news. I'm glad you have a good repore with her n that she's able to help you. Really pleased for you.

Thanks, I'm quite happy about it myself!

aww well done! so happy you are doing much better! Shows there are at least some decent doctors! Tranxene is just another benzo though isnt it? I just looked it up so hmm I'm not sure if that is a great idea.

Yeah, Tranxene is another benzo but it turns into desmethyldiazepam. Its a prodrug to desmethyldiazepam if I remember correctly. She said she's had significantly more success switching long term Valium users to Tranxene and tapering them off of it. I did some preliminary research at it seems clorazepate hits some benzo subtypes that diazepam itself does not. I'm going to keep an open mind about it.

As to why I had all that stuff, its not so much I had it, that it was at my friends house and I proceeded to well, frankly consume it all because I'm a fucking idiot. I really am just considering quitting without tapering now. It was back on saturday night I took all that stuff and I still feel pretty fucked up tbh. Im just going to try going without anything and see what happens!

It just sounds like you gave in because you were around it. The only reason I've been successful is because I've isolated myself so I'm away from GABAergic use. You know what happens when you cold turkey man. Please don't do it!

 

[Eveleivibe]

Crampz you are NOT an idiot. We have all done it one time or another - it's what you do NOW that counts. Please think very carefully about that decision to just stop. As you know it can be dangerous to stop. I know it's difficult n frustrating having to go through the taper when really you want it all over with - but you've done so well until now. You've only had one slip up n really you don't wsnt to throw that away.

We 're here to vent, whinge , cry whatever. We'll listen.
Please take care n STOP with being down on yourself. It isn't helping.

You can do this!

Evey xxxx

 

[Crampz]

yeah thats the thing tho, i can stay away from driunk etc for the most part as long as im at home, alone not having to socialise etc.

When I am with people and they say 'want a drink' sometimes i have no difficulty saying no. Other times I say yes then its just fucking catastropic, ill be drunk for about 4 days.

One of the big ones at the moment is talking to females, even if its just texting or whatever, i just cant do it without alcohol. which prolly makes me look like a total dick. fuck, maybe i need rehab or something.

 

[MagickalKat777]

I don't think rehab will make things any better. Rehab takes away the "on your time" part of the equation and you're doing things on THEIR time instead.

I honestly don't know what to tell you at this point because like I said, I've been isolating for my taper. And even then I'm having issues. Today, for example, I woke up with a fluttering heart, went to the bathroom, went back to sleep for a bit, and now I just fucked up and took 5mg when I was supposed to take 2.5mg and didn't even realize it until I went to my taper log. Maybe I just was supposed to take 5mg today to try to get some equilibrium...

But I had a big relationship issue yesterday and I immediately wanted to drink. It was quite a strong trigger. I didn't give in but if I had alcohol on hand and the roommate was out of the house, I am at least 50% sure that I would have.

That doesn't say that I need help with substances though, it says that life is too fucking stressful at times.

 

[MagickalKat777]

And I'm finding myself tempted to eat a couple grams of gabapentin right now. I just took 100mg (I tend to be sensitive to gabapentin) and I want more... Its a good thing I didn't ask the doctor for Lyrica because I can abuse the living shit out of that stuff.

 

[Crampz]

Ive only had access to lyrica a couple of times but i FUCKING loved it, it was like a benzo chillled-out-mdma type feeling. You are doing sooo well though, look back through this thread and see how far youve come!

definately the benzo heart thing, its so tempting to take more to make it go away, but please dont, you might end up like me if you do n i doubt ill ever be free of them, youre worth more than that, youre a great guy!

 

[MagickalKat777]

Yeah my doctor gave me a bunch of Lyrica samples a few years back. Took me like 450mg to get there but the high was quite nice.

The 100mg I took actually hit me like a sack of bricks. I wasn't expecting that at all. I'm having a hard time staying awake. I honestly wonder if the bar standard 900mg of gabapentin a day is not actually too high for most people because I've been seeing people being prescribed the 100mg pills lately and doing quite well.

Either way, the edge is gone and that's what I wanted.

I didn't mean to double my dose but I found out before that doubling it doesn't do anything beneficial anyway.

As for "you might end up like me" - dude I'm stuck in the house 24/7. I'm already pretty fucked Nobody deserves this hell... seriously.

How are you doing right now?

 

[Dr_Robotnik]

Rebound anxiety after benzo addiction?

Has anyone else ever had bad rebound anxiety before even weeks after the withdrawls subside? I've not taken any benzo's since the 1-5th Jan which was a just a few days of etizolam, which I'll admit wasn't used sensibly, and some legit quality valiums. When I ran out of the etizolam I had initial bad rebound anxiety. Probably stemming from my addiction to Xanax which ended mid December, for around 6 weeks I'd been using 5mg+ a day. I'd also been doing speed. Eventually shit hit the fan and I was forced to go to a doctor, who wouldn't prescribe me a taper (UK). So I was forced to go cold turkey and wound up being signed off work with "stress", which was really anxiety..

Ever since then I've been pretty anxious but I tried to just go with the idea of cold turkey and worked on doing some exercise and dieting. However here's where the problem comes, since the etizolam on the 5th Jan I've had complete insomnia for the last 2 weeks. I just can't sleep at all. When I go to bed it's like my mind starts racing with all the things I don't want to think about, my chest has that usual tight feel that I find goes with anxiety. It's almost like every night it gets worse, the other night it was boarder line stimulant psychosis, ie thinking people might have broke into my house etc. Then I wake up tired every morning and find myself feeling just as anxious as the initial day I ran out of Xanax with no taper mid December. I guess what I'm saying is I feel like the anxiety has not gone away at all so far.

I feel like my anxiety would be a lot better had the doctor given me a taper. I mean I was dosing anywhere between 5 and 10mg of Xanax a day for about 5-6 weeks, pretty much a mg or 2 every couple of hours that entire time. At the time I didn't really realise what I was getting into because I was buzzing on speed. When I ran out of Xanax my friend gave me 60mg of Valium the day I had no Xanax left, and 60mg Valium did nothing, didn't even stop the anxiety I was feeling.

Now I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I've no interest in abusing benzo's again, infact I've pretty much lost interest in recreational drug use altogether bar a couple of drinks here and there. What I'm wondering is would it be wise to try and take say 10-15mg of valium a day (5mg doses say) spread over a day, that way I wouldn't be feeling anxious, and slowly try to reduce the dose while integrating myself back into normality?

Apologies if this is the wrong thread didn't know whether to make a new one but figured this one was most likely to get a credible answer.

 

[MagickalKat777]

If you have enough of them, a one month taper off of them may well be sufficient. Valium only needs to be dosed twice a day because of its half life (some like to do every 12 hours like myself, some like to do a 9 hour schedule or so like if they wake up at noon, they'll dose at noon and then at nine at night before bed) but figuring out the dose is complicated because we don't have exact data on etizolam's equivalency. If we assume that it is equi-potent with Xanax and you were using 5+mg a day that means you were using around 100mg of Valium a day there and with the Xanax you were actually up to 200mg of Valium a day.

Generally what a smart doctor (or a doctor that cared about your well being anyway) would do is reinstate you until you're stable... I'd say somewhere between 20 and 40mg you'd stabilize in a week or two... then taper down by 5mg every two weeks since you had such a short abuse period.

This is a huge problem that I see with these "legal" benzos... When you go to see a doctor for your new benzo habit, there's no official record that you were ever on benzos and they're not likely to believe that you were until you end up in the ER from withdrawal from the mess you caused yourself.

But yes, a self-administered Valium taper would be a much better idea than the cold turkey. You're likely in the post-acute withdrawal syndrome at the moment which can happen when benzos are suddenly stopped after a period of either long term usage or short term high dose abuse. PAWS can last for months with varying degrees of symptoms the entire time if it isn't managed properly.

 

[Crampz]

Yeah my doctor gave me a bunch of Lyrica samples a few years back. Took me like 450mg to get there but the high was quite nice.

The 100mg I took actually hit me like a sack of bricks. I wasn't expecting that at all. I'm having a hard time staying awake. I honestly wonder if the bar standard 900mg of gabapentin a day is not actually too high for most people because I've been seeing people being prescribed the 100mg pills lately and doing quite well.

Either way, the edge is gone and that's what I wanted.

I didn't mean to double my dose but I found out before that doubling it doesn't do anything beneficial anyway.

As for "you might end up like me" - dude I'm stuck in the house 24/7. I'm already pretty fucked Nobody deserves this hell... seriously.

How are you doing right now?

Not good at all, I drank a bottle of gin lghI seriously need to get back on the fucking wagon! *fucking depressed and hungover!*

 

[Dr_Robotnik]

If you have enough of them, a one month taper off of them may well be sufficient. Valium only needs to be dosed twice a day because of its half life (some like to do every 12 hours like myself, some like to do a 9 hour schedule or so like if they wake up at noon, they'll dose at noon and then at nine at night before bed) but figuring out the dose is complicated because we don't have exact data on etizolam's equivalency. If we assume that it is equi-potent with Xanax and you were using 5+mg a day that means you were using around 100mg of Valium a day there and with the Xanax you were actually up to 200mg of Valium a day.

Generally what a smart doctor (or a doctor that cared about your well being anyway) would do is reinstate you until you're stable... I'd say somewhere between 20 and 40mg you'd stabilize in a week or two... then taper down by 5mg every two weeks since you had such a short abuse period.

This is a huge problem that I see with these "legal" benzos... When you go to see a doctor for your new benzo habit, there's no official record that you were ever on benzos and they're not likely to believe that you were until you end up in the ER from withdrawal from the mess you caused yourself.

But yes, a self-administered Valium taper would be a much better idea than the cold turkey. You're likely in the post-acute withdrawal syndrome at the moment which can happen when benzos are suddenly stopped after a period of either long term usage or short term high dose abuse. PAWS can last for months with varying degrees of symptoms the entire time if it isn't managed properly.

Thanks for the reply man

Yeah I know about the difference in half-life between all these benzos. I've never had a Valium or Etizolam habbit, I have used Valium say once a week or so for a month before, maybe at high doses but I've never gone on a prolonged dosing schedule of it. All these anxiety problems are down to the 5mg+ a day Xanax habbit that as I say ended mid December after 6 weeks of pretty much 24/7 dosing for that time period of 6 weeks.

I totally agree, the doctor I saw had no real clue, it almost came to me showing him links to benzo conversion charts and tapering plans. I was at a real low man and I just wanted to educate him on my situation and what I felt would be the best course of action based upon what I'd read on Harm Reduction sites like these.. I guess he didn't like being educated by a "drug addict", he actually said "I'm sorry but I can't prescribe you drugs you've been using to get high on.. I tried to explain I was never using Xanax, Valium or any other benzo to get high, it's a case of self medicating.

Yeah well the final straw was earlier today I had a family day out, which from the offset made me anxious, like that feeling your chest is tightening and you feel a bit shakey if you know what I mean? Well when I got home I had a full blown anxiety attack, literally shaking, not far off convulsions and my heart just felt strained to death, for a brief moment I wondered if I was going to have a heart attack.

I've since had 2 x 10mg Apaurin Valiums and am feeling much better now, no desire for more whatsoever. The thing is I'm not all that keen to get back into daily use. Should I perhaps try and hold off from taking any unless I am feeling the way I did today (before the anxiety attack, but when it's heading that way)?

I'm just reluctant to get back into daily benzo use and work up a tolerance when my tolerance seems to have dropped drastically when I'm now feeling anti-anxiety effects from just 20mg diazepam.

It's also a bit of a pain in the ass to get decent quality valium aswell. I can get top EU brands that are on par with the health service blues but at £1 a tab, I was thinking if I just don't take these 20 I have left every day and save them for when I need to chill and maybe buy 50-100 Etizolam and use them for social situations that make me feel anxious when I've got important stuff to do while out of the house. I'm thinking I'm hopefully *cross fingers* past the stage of wanting to use benzo's for any kind of recreational type feeling or daily.

I just think like you say it could actually be beneficial to have a few around for when anxiety causing situations arise, at least until I've integrated myself back into normality and no longer need anything to ease me into situations.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Not good at all, I drank a bottle of gin lghI seriously need to get back on the fucking wagon! *fucking depressed and hungover!*

You will when you're ready. Obviously you're going through something right now. You need to sit down and identify what your trigger was and then work on a plan to not let that trigger trigger you again and then reinitiate your taper, that's all.

Thanks for the reply man

Yeah I know about the difference in half-life between all these benzos. I've never had a Valium or Etizolam habbit, I have used Valium say once a week or so for a month before, maybe at high doses but I've never gone on a prolonged dosing schedule of it. All these anxiety problems are down to the 5mg+ a day Xanax habbit that as I say ended mid December after 6 weeks of pretty much 24/7 dosing for that time period of 6 weeks.

I totally agree, the doctor I saw had no real clue, it almost came to me showing him links to benzo conversion charts and tapering plans. I was at a real low man and I just wanted to educate him on my situation and what I felt would be the best course of action based upon what I'd read on Harm Reduction sites like these.. I guess he didn't like being educated by a "drug addict", he actually said "I'm sorry but I can't prescribe you drugs you've been using to get high on.. I tried to explain I was never using Xanax, Valium or any other benzo to get high, it's a case of self medicating.

Yeah well the final straw was earlier today I had a family day out, which from the offset made me anxious, like that feeling your chest is tightening and you feel a bit shakey if you know what I mean? Well when I got home I had a full blown anxiety attack, literally shaking, not far off convulsions and my heart just felt strained to death, for a brief moment I wondered if I was going to have a heart attack.

I've since had 2 x 10mg Apaurin Valiums and am feeling much better now, no desire for more whatsoever. The thing is I'm not all that keen to get back into daily use. Should I perhaps try and hold off from taking any unless I am feeling the way I did today (before the anxiety attack, but when it's heading that way)?

I'm just reluctant to get back into daily benzo use and work up a tolerance when my tolerance seems to have dropped drastically when I'm now feeling anti-anxiety effects from just 20mg diazepam.

It's also a bit of a pain in the ass to get decent quality valium aswell. I can get top EU brands that are on par with the health service blues but at £1 a tab, I was thinking if I just don't take these 20 I have left every day and save them for when I need to chill and maybe buy 50-100 Etizolam and use them for social situations that make me feel anxious when I've got important stuff to do while out of the house. I'm thinking I'm hopefully *cross fingers* past the stage of wanting to use benzo's as a recreational type thing.

No problem. Yeah doctors don't really take too kindly to being told how to do their jobs. I'd find another doctor and go in with a pre-made taper plan and here's why.

If you use Valium in the manner that you're describing, eventually you're going to end up taking it all the time again. Benzos just aren't sustainable for as needed use, especially when your need for them is BECAUSE of them. Benzos are always a slippery slope. Its one that Crampz and myself in this very thread have been riding for years. Even when used as prescribed, they aren't sustainable (I never abused my medication, not once) meds. You've already got a dependency on them so that relief that you're getting is because your brain has been clamoring for it for so long that a low dose is having more of an effect than it normally would. That doesn't last, however.

If you go in to a doctor and you're honest about your usage patterns and go in with a benzo taper schedule (a reasonable one, per the Ashton Manual), they are much more likely to help you out.

 

[Eveleivibe]

You're a man, crampz? I thought you were female no offence. I wish Bluelight would put a male/ female by people's names because I keep mistaking people.