Benzos Diazepam Withdrawal

[MagickalKat777]

lol what is it about my way of wording things? I didn't realize I had a way with words that was amusing lol

I know exactly what you are talking about. I was thinking about dosage last night and I was like... really? I believe I took my last 5mg last night. We'll see how I feel come 1AM haha.

I really wish I had some 2mg pills. Its tedious splitting these pills into quarters and then hoping I got my full dose.

 

[Gratuitous Grace]

I took my last ever (hopefully) full 5mg pill of diazepam, I must say it is a weird feeling yet kind of a relief. It is weird my way of thinking about benzos has completely changed, I used to think '5mg? that is hardly anything' into '5mg, that seems way too much for me to be taking in one dose'. I guess that is a good thing!

Oh wow. I've gotta say, I'm kind of in awe of you right now! (I'm not even close to a "last ever pill.") Prayers that it works out!

 

[brutus]

lol what is it about my way of wording things? I didn't realize I had a way with words that was amusing lol

I know exactly what you are talking about. I was thinking about dosage last night and I was like... really? I believe I took my last 5mg last night. We'll see how I feel come 1AM haha.

I really wish I had some 2mg pills. Its tedious splitting these pills into quarters and then hoping I got my full dose.

Look on Ebay for a mg scale or even perhaps use volumetric dosing.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Look on Ebay for a mg scale or even perhaps use volumetric dosing.

I have a milligram scale but that doesn't come in handy when you're dealing with a pill that most likely doesn't have even distribution throughout to begin with.

I've thought about volumetric dosing but I need to recalculate my doses around whole pills and make sure I'll have enough to finish my taper before I strongly consider it. I don't have a psychiatrist anymore so I have one more 120 5mg refill before I am completely out.

 

[Gratuitous Grace]

I have a milligram scale but that doesn't come in handy when you're dealing with a pill that most likely doesn't have even distribution throughout to begin with.

I've thought about volumetric dosing but I need to recalculate my doses around whole pills and make sure I'll have enough to finish my taper before I strongly consider it. I don't have a psychiatrist anymore so I have one more 120 5mg refill before I am completely out.

Have you connected with Benzo Buddies to work out a "liquid titration"? That's my plan ... when I'm ready(?)

 

[MagickalKat777]

Have you connected with Benzo Buddies to work out a "liquid titration"? That's my plan ... when I'm ready(?)

That's where I first got the idea.

The problem is that Valium isn't very water soluble and I didn't like the idea of throwing out the rest of the dose either. That was before I realized that I have 1 refill left on another prescription number though so I might switch.

 

[Crampz]

lol what is it about my way of wording things? I didn't realize I had a way with words that was amusing lol

I know exactly what you are talking about. I was thinking about dosage last night and I was like... really? I believe I took my last 5mg last night. We'll see how I feel come 1AM haha.

I really wish I had some 2mg pills. Its tedious splitting these pills into quarters and then hoping I got my full dose.

I dunno, I just like it :D I think maybe because I can empathise so much. tell me about it with the quarter pill thing, I have fucked up so many pills trying to get them into equal quarters and I actually think I would kill for some of those 2mg pills. The dose is so low and people buying on the street arent generally buying to taper off with so getting them from a source other than a doctor is hard to say the least, especially given the need for a reliable source.

There are a lot of videos on youtube about how to do those titration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nauy3qmDeLQ) would this method work?? or is it fairly okay to jump off at 1.25mg diazepam?

 

[Gratuitous Grace]

That's where I first got the idea.

The problem is that Valium isn't very water soluble and I didn't like the idea of throwing out the rest of the dose either. That was before I realized that I have 1 refill left on another prescription number though so I might switch.

My understanding is that Benzos are fairly fat soluble, and so you use whole milk for the titration?

So far as throwing out the rest of the dose goes, 1% per day gets you there (theoretically) in 100 days, right? If you have an Rx for 120, then you're good to go, I would think. Plus, when you're halfway through the taper, you can cut pills in half (you should have even distribution throughout halves -- pills have a score line, right?), adjust liquid accordingly, and save pills that way. You can take that last month VERY slowly if you want to -- maybe even draw it out into 2 or 3 months by reducing by 1% every 2 or 3 days instead of every day.

That said, I certainly don't mean to tell you what to do. This is just my current thinking on the situation, which is definitely in my own near future. Best of luck!

 

[MagickalKat777]

That's pretty fucking genius to use seltzer water, I never thought about that. It would likely carry the benzo more evenly since the carbonation would likely liberate the chemical from all of its binder ingredients!

Honestly, I've heard of people jumping off at 2mg and being fine but I've also heard of people having issues at .5mg - its all up to you how you do it.

I agree with you about killing for the 2mg pills. I couldn't get my psych to give me liquid but I should have at least asked for 2mg pills. She wanted me to cut 2.5mg every two weeks!

EDIT

My understanding is that Benzos are fairly fat soluble, and so you use whole milk for the titration?

So far as throwing out the rest of the dose goes, 1% per day gets you there (theoretically) in 100 days, right? If you have an Rx for 120, then you're good to go, I would think. Plus, when you're halfway through the taper, you can cut pills in half (you should have even distribution throughout halves -- pills have a score line, right?), adjust liquid accordingly, and save pills that way. You can take that last month VERY slowly if you want to -- maybe even draw it out into 2 or 3 months by reducing by 1% every 2 or 3 days instead of every day.

That said, I certainly don't mean to tell you what to do. This is just my current thinking on the situation, which is definitely in my own near future. Best of luck!

Whole milk would likely make me barf. And I don't know where benzos being fat soluble came from. Benzos are generally soluble in alcohol, PEG, PG, and DMSO. They are notoriously difficult to get into solution for any significant period of time.

If they were fat or water soluble, they would be active intranasally too.

 

[Crampz]

It's like a lot of these doctors honestly have no clue at all. When I asked mine for the 2mg pills I was like 'look, I'm on 20mg 10% of that is 2mg so can I not switch to the 2mg pills?' He was like 'nah, just cut 5mg a week'.

I guess another option which I've heard of people doing is instead of jumping off at 1.25, taking 1.25 every other day and then jumping off after a few weeks like that.

 

[MagickalKat777]

I've heard of that method too and it will likely be what I'll be doing at the end.

 

[Crampz]

I am considering doing that now to be fair, I feel like absolute shit. Talk about speaking too soon. I might do bumper doses every couple of days for the next week.

 

[Gratuitous Grace]

Whole milk would likely make me barf. And I don't know where benzos being fat soluble came from.

From the Benzo Buddies website. It's what they recommend -- that's all.

 

[MagickalKat777]

From the Benzo Buddies website. It's what they recommend -- that's all.

Yeah I don't get that one. It makes no sense to me. You can't even tell if the mixture is sufficiently dispersed if you use something like milk (I don't even think milk would make a proper suspension but someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). They recommend a lot of things that are pretty asinine IMO. Great community though.

EDIT: Here it is straight from the source. Makes sense now that I think about it.

As I explained in my previous post, we are not trying to create a solution. As I understand it, solutions are where two (or more) elements or compounds mix together to form a homogeneous substance (mostly, liquids), but do not interact with each other. Instead, we are adding benzodiazepine (probably, more accurately, ground up particles of benzodiazepine bound to binding agent) to form a suspension. Suspensions always will settle over time (unlike solutions). However, some suspensions are better than others. We can use water to suspend our benzo-powder, but homogenised full-fat (4%) milk should work better. For one, milk is of greater viscosity, and this will slow the process of settlement. Secondly, most (but not all) benzodiazepines appear to have an affinity for fat, so they will have a tendency to bind with the fat in the milk. Homogenised milk has gone through a process to ensure that the fat is evenly distributed throughout the milk (older members will remember how the fat used to collect at the top of bottles of milk and we would shake it before opening - I certainly remember this).

I am considering doing that now to be fair, I feel like absolute shit. Talk about speaking too soon. I might do bumper doses every couple of days for the next week.

Sorry you are feeling so crappy. I am feeling a little bit better now that I ate a decent dinner but I've been feeling on edge for the past few days. I think I need to start marking my withdrawal days and my window days in different colors or something to chart how my symptoms are at each dose. It would probably help me a lot to visually see how much I'm improved over the last dose I took.

I've been contemplating taking a booster here and there for the past few days but I've been fighting the temptation. Could be a very slippery slope for me and then before I know it I've undone everything I did.

 

[Crampz]

I guess thats always the danger, just ending up back at the beginning . I'm actually feeling pretty much okay today (so far, I am always going to be skeptical when I'm not feeling awful from now on, it'll probably hit me later on).

About the antidepressants too, against best advice I thought I would try out the wellbutrin, it seems to be okay when I take it, but come the evening I think its sending my thinking a bit dodgy. Like a speed or MDMA comedown, it is really weird. I guess I will just have to stick with the mirtazapine for a few months and just exercise a lot.

I think thats really good to have a chart to see how well things are progressing. Last time I attempted this I did a 'strict' timetable and always felt guilty that I was nowhere near ready to reduce my dosage and the days would pass and to cut a long story short I just gave up. BUT I think it is a really good idea as long as you don't have a strict set date to be off them by!

Also, I quite like the milk idea, but I wretch at the taste of milk, I was thinking of using strawberry milkshake powder to combat the taste but then i thought about it has to dissolve etc which could be a complication so I might use the the liquid milkshake mix!

 

[MagickalKat777]

All I have to say is this morning... Hell.

First time I've truly experienced the wide gamut since I started my taper. I ended up doing a post in TDS and then removing it... I was so close to falling off the edge man.

And are you taking Wellbutrin daily or twice a day? I think it was when I got to twice a day that I was constantly high as a kite on it but its been awhile.

 

[Crampz]

aww no are you feeling better? I've noticed it coming in waves so much that its hard to say whether its worth taking a booster. Are you still on 8.75?

The wellbutrin is just once a day, so ive been taking it in the mornings. come the evening i feel weird so i think i shall stop taking it (havent had any today) plus on the lil lreaflet it says not to take it if you plan on coming off benzos whilst you are on it.

 

[MagickalKat777]

It actually says that in the prescribing info? Interesting.

I feel like crap but I still cut today. I decided to try the more Ashton-like method and cut off the morning dose and keep the night at 5mg until the morning dose is gone. I'm barely sleeping with 5mg at night so I think its important to keep it there.

I'm going to be experimenting with dosage on my Delsym too. I can't tell if its helping or hurting anymore. I cut it down from 5mL last night to 3mL, took the regular 5mL this afternoon and I feel worse this afternoon than I did last night but it could all be relative. I really hate how hard it is to tell what is real and what isn't when you're in withdrawal... I'm even starting to question things that I've taken at face value as being "real" now. What the hell?

So yeah, I am on 2.5mg in the morning, 5mg at night. In 14 days I'll go down to 1.25mg in the morning, 5mg at night if all goes well.

 

[Crampz]

I get really discouraged when I look at the Ashton manual simply due to the time frames involved but it does seem to make more sense in terms of getting to sleep to have a higher dose at night rather than split it into 2 equal doses but I am worried that will make the day times really fucking unbearable then .

In terms of questioning what is real, do you mean if you are walking down a street you wonder if you are really there or something? When I tried to quit before, when it got REALLY bad I was walking in the woods, trying to take my mind off the torture and I was like 'what the hell is going on... oh yeah... I am in the woods for some reason.. I think'. That was probably the worst I've felt in my life in terms of actually fearing I was going insane.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Yeah, its sort of like that but not as extreme. Yet.

I didn't have any cough syrup this afternoon and feel like crap but who knows what is causing what at this point.

The timelines are really depressing indeed but it is what it is. I know if I stop sleeping, I'll stop being able to handle this at all.