Declaring war on the police?

[knock]

Of course they are people, but people who have chose to be part of an organisation that oppresses people for their personal choices, you have missed the point here.

I can completely see where you're coming from, but if no-one made that choice, then there would be no police to do the more generally popular work like going after murderers and rapists.

So you surely accept that it's desirable for some people to make that choice, and therefore simply being a policeman can't be sufficient grounds for receiving the title of cunt (although it may stack the odds).

 

[Ghostface]

If drugs were legal what opinion would most of us have regarding the police? Our opinion is 'slightly' influenced with a particular hobby that we all partake in

That aside, yeah there are lots of cops that do not deserve to breathe the same air as us, but the same could be said per percentage of every major social group. Take priests for example

 

[Evad]

where have i said all policemen = cunts? I said:

there's a much bigger %age of cunts in the polis than the general population.

the job role is attractive to cunts and the environment of the job is good at turning people to cunts

 

[Pingu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M8vei3L0L8

 

[Evad]

If drugs were legal what opinion would most of us have regarding the police? Our opinion is 'slightly' influenced with a particular hobby that we all partake in

Are you saying that you have to be one of the persecuted to disagree with an oppressive group? I get what you're saying to a degree but then you get people like my dad, who's extremely law abiding who hold a distate for the police. In his case because he works with kids coming out of care etc and sees the treatment the receive at the hands of the police on a daily basis.

 

[angelsmoke]

Exactly what I said earlier in the thread. Maybe cops are fed up of dealing with junkies who rob old grannies of their pension and the just tar all drug users with the same brush just as so many people on here have done with cops.

Ah yes, so you did. Well, good point

Of course they are people, but people who have chose to be part of an organisation that oppresses people for their personal choices, you have missed the point here.

I meant that them being part of that organisation doesn't, to me, mean they deserve to be hurt.

Isn't "oppresses people for their personal choices" a very narrow view? I agree that drug laws and a lot of other laws are basically just that. But there are plenty of things for cops do other than go after recreational drug users.

 

[knock]

where have i said all policemen = cunts? I said:



the job role is attractive to cunts and the environment of the job is good at turning people to cunts

That's right and I agree with that but you have said things like:

[they are] people who have chose to be part of an organisation that [oppresses people]

which suggests you are defending a point of view which attacks the individual based on membership of the group. I am saying that because we can accept a need for some people to be police, those who are not cunts, it's not reasonable to attack individual police simply for being police.

All I am saying is, while you can generalise, it's not fair to those for whom the generalisation doesn't hold.


Edit: Furthermore, if there are any tax payers or voters here, it's your money and your votes which perpetuate the police system. There are more productive and justifiable means of changing the system than violence or abuse.

 

[Evad]

I meant that them being part of that organisation doesn't, to me, mean they deserve to be hurt.

Isn't "oppresses people for their personal choices" a very narrow view? I agree that drug laws and a lot of other laws are basically just that. But there are plenty of things for cops do other than go after recreational drug users.

large %age of arrests being for drug possession/dealing etc I wouldn't say it's a narrow view at all it's their bread and butter. I said it was something that the police do not that it was the only thing they did.

which suggests you are defending a point of view which attacks the individual based on membership of the group. I am saying that because we can accept a need for some people to be police, those who are not cunts, it's not reasonable to attack individual police simply for being police.

if you read through my posts in this thread, i have not once agreed with attacking individuals just maintained that a dislike for the institution is a valid viewpoint.
due to the "look after your own kind" attitude within the police force it is hard to attack the institution also though. One example I can think of which I'd say a more valid for of protest (rather than a meathead on a killspree) was after the police ran over and killed a 15 year old girl here. driving round far over the speed limit without lights while not even on a job. local residents kept phoning in fake crimes then pelting the cars with bricks when they arrived. until there is a system of accountability that everyone feels satisfied there are going to be those that lash out at the individuals.

 

[knock]

large %age of arrests being for drug possession/dealing etc I wouldn't say it's a narrow view at all it's their bread and butter. I said it was something that the police do not that it was the only thing they did.



if you read through myposts in this thread, i have not once agreed with attacking individuals just maintained that a dislike for the institution is a valid viewpoint.

You have definitely implied that simply being a police puts one in a negative light because they chose to be part of an organisation which oppresses people for their personal choices, stop squirming. I think you're a fine human being, but I think you're being a bit squirmy here.

 

[Ghostface]

Are you saying that you have to be one of the persecuted to disagree with an oppressive group? I get what you're saying to a degree but then you get people like my dad, who's extremely law abiding who hold a distate for the police. In his case because he works with kids coming out of care etc and sees the treatment the receive at the hands of the police on a daily basis.

Oh noooo, I do believe that they are a very oppressive group and my political, social or general views are very anti-police, but, if we lived in an world with legal drugs, or a regulated drug trade, we would probably have a different opinion to some extent, as much of the drug related stigmata of society would not exist. To 'some' extent the key word.

 

[Evad]

You have definitely implied that simply being a police puts one in a negative light because they chose to be part of an organisation which oppresses people for their personal choices, stop squirming. I think you're a fine human being, but I think you're being a bit squirmy here.

haha I'm genuinely not sure what you want me to say/admit here is it to do with these comments?

which suggests you are defending a point of view which attacks the individual based on membership of the group. I am saying that because we can accept a need for some people to be police, those who are not cunts, it's not reasonable to attack individual police simply for being police.

You have definitely implied that simply being a police puts one in a negative light because they chose to be part of an organisation which oppresses people for their personal choices, stop squirming.

Yeah I guess you're right, I took your use of the word attack as the raoul moat shotgun style attack rather than an attack of their character. Being misguided or having different views to me doesn't make someone bad though does it? It will put them down in my estimation though.

 

[knock]

That's right, attack != assault. I should have been less ambiguous!

 

[koneko]

Opinions are a great thing we all have em' but how about some evidence? Do the police only treat drug users / dealers like scum, are they really oppressive to the majority?

I see a lot of black and white thinking here, not like me to comment on this publicly but hey ho...

I rely on the police to also protect me and mine, and have experience of them doing so and doing it well. Maybe if they knew I moderated on a drug forum they wouldn't treat me so well? Don't think you can generalise here, however tempting that may be as a collective of drug users hence law-breakers

 

[knock]

Don't think you can generalise here, however tempting that may be as a collective of drug users hence harmless oppressed minority

fixed.

 

[Evad]

I don't think the words oppress and majority were used together but they certainly oppress drug users just as they once oppressed homosexuals.

 

[knock]

I don't think the words oppress and majority were used together but they certainly oppress drug users just as they once oppressed homosexuals.

I was just reading this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfenden_report

with similar thoughts.

 

[Shambles]

Maybe if they knew I moderated on a drug forum they wouldn't treat me so well?

Possibly but not necessarily. Aside from my "business" dealings with plod I also needed to make use of them in their "Nicking some cunt who isn't Shambles" services on more than one occasion (assaults, burglaries etc) and despite being on first name terms with most of 'em cos they'd arrested me so often they treated me as they would anybody else - took the situation seriously, acted sensitively, investigated properly, offered support services and so on. I really couldn't complain a bit about the way they acted when I was the one asking for help and they (mostly) weren't too bad when it was my name on the warrant either.

Saying that, there are few cunts as cuntish as cuntish cunt stubbles

 

[felix]

 

[koneko]

fixed.

Are we a minority though? - we'll never know truly / statistically, in the full definition of "drug user"

I don't think the words oppress and majority were used together but they certainly oppress drug users just as they once oppressed homosexuals.

I get where your coming from but...in terms of engaging with the police on anything but drug matter, where I've already stated I've been lucky but had some near misses, not always - I have never felt oppressed

I feel more oppressed by the fucking tax system

Opinions are ten a penny, execution of them a different matter entirely :D

 

[gannetsarewe]

I suprised that the debate on this board has descended to mere mudslinging and that nobody has commented on its origin. I have always shared Marx’s analysis of history , in that it is an account of the struggle bewteen different groups for power or as he calls it capital. I am however far too pessimistic to concur with his prognosis or rather prescription. The State is the most potent source of power being more enduring than corporations which are very unstable. In order to maintain control has instruments of power Police, Army, Jails. If the state overuses this power to oppress people, then those have been oppressed may wish to strike back. Humilation is the powerful form of oppression, to humilate is to deprive an individual or group of any sembalance of power or worth.

For a first hand account of how group humiliation led to decades of conflict in Northern Ireland read War in an Irish Town by Trotskyist journalist Eamon McCann, where marchers are turned by The State into rioters and then in turn into armed insurrectionists by the availabilty of a coherent and attractive ideology (For a first hand account of how the leaders of this Insurrection abandon ideology for the pursuit of power, read Killing Rage by Eamon Collins, Collins was beaten to death in broad daylight on a busy road for his candour)

I have been astounded as an observer in Ireland at the assault on civil liberties and the commitment to a foolish neo imperialism to by New Labour, surely the most perniscous British Government since Joe Chamberlain. I also fear there is available an attractive and coherent ideology which its heirs may not heard the last of and as I write this I am watching news of Britains retreat/withdrawal whatever you want to call it, from Afghanistan.

The divide on this debate is beween those who have been so humilated by the State or angry that others have been humiliated that they desire the destruction or radical change of same and those who are willing to accept abuse of state power in order to preserve the status quo. Any discussion on the morality or typeset of the police is meaningless.