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Death Penalty - for or against

death penalty

  • Total voters
    85
Fjones said:
I appreciate the source. I wasn't disputing the figures necessarily, I just like to keep people honest and make sure people aren't just throwing numbers out there.
Yes, it sucks that our tax dollars are spent on prisons and prisoners, but that's the way it goes. I don't like most of what our tax dollars are spent on. How many people do?

But, My objection to your argument is this -- Murderers make up a very small percentage of the prison population. You make it sound as though the amount of money being spent on murderers is significant, but I don't really think it is. If someone has some figures for this I would be curious to see them.

Again, I think you are sort of missing the point because it is easy to say "Let's just kill prisoners" than "Let's figure out how to reform the prison system and reduce crime in society."

Yes, the first plan might reduce costs slightly, but at the cost of employing an unjust punishment that entails its own costs. But the second plan will reduce costs dramatically and make society better overall. It's just going to require a lot of thought and effort.
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Yea, I know that murderers and such only take up a small percent, but we are talking about the death penalty, which only includes that small percent. If we want to consider everything, we would have to make a thread to discuss the whole prison system in general. I STRONGLY disagree with the entire war on drugs, which constitutes a huge portion of the prison population. Our tax dollars go to those guys too. The thing is with me, I don't feel like we should keep people alive who chose to disrespect others rights to live. If they can kill someone and then go to a place where they have a roof over their head, and 3 meals a day. That sounds pretty unfair to me.
 
Fjones said:
Oops.

I apologize for my error. When LoneStarDj responded about the meme, I assumed he was defending his own post. My fault.

Nevertheless, I stand by the statements I made to LoneStarDJ.

The following is NOT a persuasive argument --

Michael Moore is a douchebag
Michael Moore opposes the death penalty
Therefore the death penalty is good.

That is just not a good argument, sorry.

I know it was partly in jest, but can't we have a serious discussion about the death penalty without people making stupid comments and jokes?
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Okay, I admit that my remarks with the Michael Moore were strictly opinion and didn't belong in this thread. I do apologize for that. At the same time though, I wasn't suggesting that because of my dislike for him, that I support the opposite of his beliefs. I just despise his character.
 
TheLoneStarDJ said:
Yea, I know that murderers and such only take up a small percent, but we are talking about the death penalty, which only includes that small percent. If we want to consider everything, we would have to make a thread to discuss the whole prison system in general. I STRONGLY disagree with the entire war on drugs, which constitutes a huge portion of the prison population. Our tax dollars go to those guys too. The thing is with me, I don't feel like we should keep people alive who chose to disrespect others rights to live. If they can kill someone and then go to a place where they have a roof over their head, and 3 meals a day. That sounds pretty unfair to me.
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I actually agree with the thoughts you are expressing here. I do wish that murderers could just be zapped into an alternate dimension or something. I don't want them to ever be reintroduced to society or have the chance to hurt anyone again.
I just don't like the death penalty as a means to achieve that end. I wish there were an ideal solution that didn't create any additional problems.
 
Fjones said:
I actually agree with the thoughts you are expressing here. I do wish that murderers could just be zapped into an alternate dimension or something. I don't want them to ever be reintroduced to society or have the chance to hurt anyone again.
I just don't like the death penalty as a means to achieve that end. I wish there were an ideal solution that didn't create any additional problems.
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Well let me ask you this. What would be the difference in killing them here, or sending them elsewhere to fend for themselves and most likely die soon after arriving anyway?
 
TheLoneStarDJ said:
Okay, I admit that my remarks with the Michael Moore were strictly opinion and didn't belong in this thread. I do apologize for that. At the same time though, I wasn't suggesting that because of my dislike for him, that I support the opposite of his beliefs. I just despise his character.
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I am not crazy about the guy either. I haven't yet seen his piece about the health care system (I think it is called "sicko" or somethign similar).
 
An eye for an eye leaves all of us blind.

(I believe that was Dr. Marin Luther King Jr.)
 
Benefit said:
No offense fjones, but do you have Aspergers?

Haha, just kidding. Offense slightly intended!
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No offense taken (ha! take that! :) )

Well, based on the diagnostic criteria for asperger's, I think it is pretty clear that I do have it.

But my friends and family have brushed that notion aside, simply because I have a lot of friends. I don't think that makes sense. I have managed to make friends despite my deficient social skills. If you take 1000 people with asperger's, some of them will make a lot of friends. Most won't, but some will. There are always outliers.
 
TheLoneStarDJ said:
Well let me ask you this. What would be the difference in killing them here, or sending them elsewhere to fend for themselves and most likely die soon after arriving anyway?
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No difference really. I am just saying, I understand the desire to just make these people "disappear." That doesn't mean I support a government initiative to do it.
 
So Fjones, you are for prison reform? Could you offer up any suggestions as to how that reform could be achieved that would actually effect any of the people I was speaking about in my post? I believe that the prison system, U.S. governments and many separate state systems have been attempting this reform you speak of since the inception of gangs and the gangster mentality.

I'd be all for any type of change that would be effective in changing the way these people think, but as of yet I've not seen a thing we have tried that these people respect outside of extreme violence and death. Which have been done away with since we care so much for the well-being of the murderers and rapists of our fine nation.
 
DonkeyPunch said:
So Fjones, you are for prison reform? Could you offer up any suggestions as to how that reform could be achieved that would actually effect any of the people I was speaking about in my post? I believe that the prison system, U.S. governments and many separate state systems have been attempting this reform you speak of since the inception of gangs and the gangster mentality.

I'd be all for any type of change that would be effective in changing the way these people think, but as of yet I've not seen a thing we have tried that these people respect outside of extreme violence and death. Which have been done away with since we care so much for the well-being of the murderers and rapists of our fine nation.
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A solution? Who said anything about solutions? I am all about arguments, not solutions :p

Just kidding. Sort of.

In all seriousness,

I do not have a solution. I have not studied the issue of prison reform. I don't know enough about it to really offer solutions. But I am not sure we should give up. Mayeb the solution lies OUTSIDE the prison walls. Stop writing speeding tickets and hassling drug users and use that money to stop actual crimes like robbery, murder, etc.
 
DonkeyPunch said:
ah. I see. My work is done here.
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How so?

Just because I personally could not give a plan for prison reform, doesn't mean that NO ONE can.

Besides, I gave a suggestion for a solution to try to control the crime outside the walls. You don't have any opinion on what I said there?
 
Because we don't try to control "real" crimes outside of prison walls already? I'm confused, I don't know where you're from, but at least in my state, police do try to stop crimes before they happen. Usually to little avail, but they try.

This small percentage of success is also due to restraints placed on our police by politicians and the liberal media to make sure no ones rights are being violated. Which by the way I am all for human rights, but if there is enough evidence to establish probable cause that someone will attempt to harm another person, I believe that police should be able to intervene more than saying to the suspect "hey we're watching you bub".


BTW thank you to atri for keeping this thread here. I'm all for lounge foolishness, but you guise, srsly? we can't have one serious discussion thread amongst the hundreds of picture threads, meme threads, poop threads, and so on? is it really that big of a deal? just stop posting here. srsly.
 
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