Death Penalty - for or against

[ninjadanslarbretabar]

Why??

for the lol

 

[Zzyzx]

for the lol

I tought you were trying to make a point here

 

[Fjones]

^ did not offer a reason to invalidate my post.

I didn't address your post because I found your post to be rather irrelevant.

You made a very good case for PRISON REFORM and for better crime prevention on the outside. . You did not make a good case for why we should use the death penalty.

Seriously, your justification for the death penalty is, "We have a flawed prison system and an ineffective police force, so let's just kill people instead of imprisoning them?"

I do not find this to be a persuasive argument.

 

[Fjones]

I have very mixed opinions about it. I think it depends on the circumstance of the crime that lead to the conviction. With the way the US economy is, it makes much much more sense to execute them. It costs somewhere between 50-60 thousand dollars a year to maintain an individual in prison. I think that there are too many variables in regards to the death penalty to make a true 'just' system.

Wow, another post of the form -- "The system is flawed so let's execute prisoners instead of imprisoning them."

Can't we do better than that as an advanced civilized society????

But then you note that it cannot be applied fairly. Why would you even consider employing an unfair penalty that ENDS PEOPLE'S LIVES just because it saves money?

Why don't we instead focus on REDUCING Prison costs? Why does it cost $50,000 to $60,000 to house a prisoner? Also, can you quote a source on those figures?

 

[Fjones]

better? how could it be any better for a leader of the aryan brotherhood or similar criminal organization? no fear whatsoever, you do what you want, basically when you want, and you have any amenity you'd have outside of prison. the reason I say kill them is simply because by keeping them alive you're allowing them to continue running their multi-million dollar enterprise from inside a federally funded free apartment. why should I pay for that?

Are you serious? Obviously he meant "better" as in "Improve the system."

 

[Fjones]

Two very good reasons to be pro death penalty.

I am confused. A man who is smarter and better educated than you opposes the death penalty, so you support it?

 

[Fjones]

I wish a moderator would move this to a serious forum where it belongs, so the lounge rats don't pollute this serious and important discussion with their irrelevant nonsense.

 

[Bomboclat]

I'm for the death penalty, but i think it should only really be used if the criminal has done something horrific. (i.e. decapitated like 20 people)

but then again rotting in prison could be worse...hmmmmmm

 

[TheLoneStarDJ]

Wow, another post of the form -- "The system is flawed so let's execute prisoners instead of imprisoning them."

Can't we do better than that as an advanced civilized society????

But then you note that it cannot be applied fairly. Why would you even consider employing an unfair penalty that ENDS PEOPLE'S LIVES just because it saves money?

Why don't we instead focus on REDUCING Prison costs? Why does it cost $50,000 to $60,000 to house a prisoner? Also, can you quote a source on those figures?

I suggest nothing of that form. Why should we, as citizens of the United States, give a portion of our money to maintain the life of a person that not only contributes NOTHING to society, but also brought that state upon themselves by such acts as murder and rape of innocent men, women, and children? Especially considering that their victims are not the only ones that suffer, but their families, friends, and loved ones.

And I'm not suggesting we execute people just because of money, but more so in the form of justice. Fuck letting a man live that raped and killed an innocent child just because he had the urge. A portion of that families income is taken to keep that man alive too, there is no justice in that what so ever.

If we were truly an advance and civilized society as you claim, we wouldn't have social misfits like this running around killing and raping people. Each step that is taken to rid the earth of these people is a step closer to a more advanced and civil society.

Here is a source to the exact numbers, accurate up to 2001:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/spe01.txt

The 50-60K is typical of a prisoner 50 or older.

 

[TheLoneStarDJ]

I am confused. A man who is smarter and better educated than you opposes the death penalty, so you support it?

Your opinion just went out the window. Michael Moore is a liar and a manipulator of the truth, so if you consider that smarter and better educated, may God have mercy on you.

 

[Mariposa]

Would anyone like to find the link to a study that it is more cost-effective in the US legal system (not being US-centric, but of note is that the death penalty was abolished in 1998 where Leila is and the US is the biggest offender in this matter) to execute someone than it is to incarcerate them for life?

I don't think there are any, but I'm open to be proven wrong.

More fun here.

This is where my Californian tax dollars are going.

 

[Fjones]

posted by theLoneStarDJ --

I suggest nothing of that form. Why should we, as citizens of the United States, give a portion of our money to maintain the life of a person that not only contributes NOTHING to society, but also brought that state upon themselves by such acts as murder and rape of innocent men, women, and children? Especially considering that their victims are not the only ones that suffer, but their families, friends, and loved ones.

And I'm not suggesting we execute people just because of money, but more so in the form of justice. Fuck letting a man live that raped and killed an innocent child just because he had the urge. A portion of that families income is taken to keep that man alive too, there is no justice in that what so ever.

If we were truly an advance and civilized society as you claim, we wouldn't have social misfits like this running around killing and raping people. Each step that is taken to rid the earth of these people is a step closer to a more advanced and civil society.

Here is a source to the exact numbers, accurate up to 2001:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/spe01.txt

The 50-60K is typical of a prisoner 50 or older.

________





I appreciate the source. I wasn't disputing the figures necessarily, I just like to keep people honest and make sure people aren't just throwing numbers out there.
Yes, it sucks that our tax dollars are spent on prisons and prisoners, but that's the way it goes. I don't like most of what our tax dollars are spent on. How many people do?

But, My objection to your argument is this -- Murderers make up a very small percentage of the prison population. You make it sound as though the amount of money being spent on murderers is significant, but I don't really think it is. If someone has some figures for this I would be curious to see them.

Again, I think you are sort of missing the point because it is easy to say "Let's just kill prisoners" than "Let's figure out how to reform the prison system and reduce crime in society."

Yes, the first plan might reduce costs slightly, but at the cost of employing an unjust punishment that entails its own costs. But the second plan will reduce costs dramatically and make society better overall. It's just going to require a lot of thought and effort.

 

[Fjones]

Your opinion just went out the window. Michael Moore is a liar and a manipulator of the truth, so if you consider that smarter and better educated, may God have mercy on you.

Your opinion went out the window the moment you replied to a serious thread by posting a stupid meme without giving any insight or commentary. If you are smarter than Michael Moore, show it, don't just post a meme and make a snide remark about the person in the meme.

Seriously, did you think that posting a Michael Moore meme actually constituted a persuasive argument?

I appreciate your other posts than I responded to, because you gave thoughtful explanations for your opinion and left room for discussion.

But the meme post was not needed in a serious discussion.

 

[ninjadanslarbretabar]

^ Arnold posted the pic btw

TheLoneStarDJ only responded to them

 

[Fjones]

^ Arnold posted the pic btw

Oops.

I apologize for my error. When LoneStarDj responded about the meme, I assumed he was defending his own post. My fault.

Nevertheless, I stand by the statements I made to LoneStarDJ.

The following is NOT a persuasive argument --

Michael Moore is a douchebag
Michael Moore opposes the death penalty
Therefore the death penalty is good.

That is just not a good argument, sorry.

I know it was partly in jest, but can't we have a serious discussion about the death penalty without people making stupid comments and jokes?

 

[ninjadanslarbretabar]

can't we have a serious discussion about the death penalty without people making stupid comments and jokes?

no

we do have serious discussion in the lounge from time to time
and i think its a good thing
it make the discussion a lot less anally retentive
and it makes the lounge a little less 4chanesque

but you are welcome to bump similar thread in SO or P&S if you want to

 

[AmorRoark]

This sort of argument is much better suited for P&S or CE&P. There's probably already a few existing at is it.

 

[Fjones]

Yeah, I know, I know. That is why I have pleaded for someone to move this thread. It doesn't belong here.

I think the Lounge is a useful place for funny and off-topic discussions, such as the one about leaving the toilet seat up or down, or whether people like babies or not.

For that, i think the Lounge is useful. But why does it instead have to be a place where people just act like stupid assholes, misspell words on purpose, and troll people?

I wish there were two separate forums.

Lounge 1, for light and funny but RESPECTFUL discussion, and
Lounge 2, where people can be assholes and trolls and act really stupid.


Damn, I just pwned myself.

Someone replaced my keyboard with a broken one

Seriously though, I am really bad at typing and I am doing well in a poker tournament so I forgot to spell check.

But yeah... I am embarassed about that one....

 

[ninjadanslarbretabar]

act like stupid assholes, misspell words on purpose, and troll people?

I wish there were teo sepsrate forums.

Lounge 1, for light and funny but RESEPCTFUL discussion, and
Lounge 2, where peopel can be assholes and trolls and act really stupid.

weee
Teo Sepsrate do deserve his own forum tho

 

[randycaver]

dude, your avatar is really faggy.