DATING a WOMAN who was a MAN

[sugarcoated]

taking female hormones and having multiple multiple surgeries doesn't make one a female.

Wont matter when you'll never know the difference.

 

[BumpyJohnson]

i bet i wouldn't have a clue when i'm holding man hips and man hands..

 

[sugarcoated]

Are you one of those "you can always tell" guys?

I love those types of guys.

I feel a little guilty about it...but it's a bit of a thrill to be around your type when the topic of transsexuals comes up and they're vehement about how transsexuals always have adams apples or always have big square hands and narrow hips and are absolutely disgusting creatures, then later this guy who just a few days ago was talking about how he can always tell is trying to hook up with me.

It happens more then you think I've got nice wide hips and soft little hands for you to hold

 

[socko]

Are you one of those "you can always tell" guys?

I love those types of guys.
...

It happens more then you think I've got nice wide hips and soft little hands for you to hold

OK, you've convinced me. It's sometimes impossible to tell unless you know whether the person has a Y chromosome, but even then, it's impossible to tell, sometimes. Gender is more of spectrum, a blend of male and female, than a blcak and white dichotomy.
Didn't you mention earlier in this thread that you've had a boyfriend for a couple of years, and he still has no idea that you're in stealth mode?
I wonder if you live in a conservative small town or rural area, and that's why you choose to keep this info secret rather than being in the open and having to risk dealing with peoples' intolerance and prejudice. I'm only curious and am sorry i said i thought you were anti-social for not telling people in my comment earlier in the thread.

 

[sugarcoated]

Didn't you mention earlier in this thread that you've had a boyfriend for a couple of years, and he still has no idea that you're in stealth mode?

No. I know girls who are like that, though.

I'm still pre-op so I generally just try to make it clear that I am not looking for a relationship or sex. But I've lots of close friends, some of them for years, that don't know I am transsexual.

I have had a couple of potential relationship disasters crop up just because I'm an attractive young woman and get hit on a lot and pursued by male friends occasionally and I am human and sometimes if a guy I like pushes the right buttons I let things progress further then I should.

I wonder if you live in a conservative small town or rural area, and that's why you choose to keep this info secret rather than being in the open and having to risk dealing with peoples' intolerance and prejudice.

No, I live in a pretty big city. I would almost certainly never get beaten to death or anything like that for being "out". But I just want to be seen as a normal woman. Not "the tranny" or even "the transsexual woman" and even people who are very liberal will not treat you the same if they know that you're TS.

Before I cut off most ties with my family (and moved to a different state to do it) my mom was constantly outing me to people because she thought it was funny that they didn't know and wanted to be like "haha, you got tricked". This resulted in a lot of people treating me weirdly, if not outright treating me like I had never transitioned at all. (I don't care if it's said with a smile...greeting a transsexal with "what's up, dude?" is not acceptable)

It was probably the toughest time I had dealing with a condition that had already caused me a lot of depression.

My mom did eventually knock it off after she came into my room and I was crying with a gun to my head..she was pretty shocked to see that, questioned me and I told her it was because she kept making life very hard for me...

That pretty much woke her up to the fact that my being transsexual was not a joke and my transition was important to me. She's been good since but I still decided to cut off most family ties and move far away just making the occasional visit but keeping my family and my adult life completely separate.


I guess basically...all I am really trying to say is that....this condition sucks horribly to be born with. It's a very rough path and it's one that we don't really choose. It came down to transition or suicide.

From my earliest memories till the day I really transitioned, my life was a horrible horrible hell because of the way I was born. Anything having to do with gender was a reminder of how much mine was an issue. Everything from having to line up with the boys to go to the bathroom in kindergarten to puberty making my body betray me even more.

But people don't see the hurt of being born with this condition, people will tell you you're living a lie, people will call you names like "tranny" and "she-man".

Living stealth is just a final desperate grasp at trying to have a normal life.

 

[Belisarius]

If she were ideal relationship material in every other way, and if the plumbing still worked the same, I wouldn't care. Can't speak for anyone else, but for me, S.O.s definitely don't grow on trees.

I make a distinction between sex and gender: the former is biological, and the latter is all the other social and psychological baggage tied up with each kind--in short, a label, a label I think is more important than the physical reality, since that's what we usually deal with. Nobody cares that George W. Bush is a man; everyone cares that everyone else defines him as President. If someone with a penis and an XY chromosome gets up one day, starts wearing dresses and makeup, goes to women's bathrooms, and insists others use the female pronoun and to refer to them as Nellybelle, then I consider that person a woman. Doesn't mean I'd lay 'em, but I will agree with what they want to call themselves.

[edges away from T&A territory...]

 

[BumpyJohnson]

sugarcoated.. with what your saying.. why don't ya post a picture of yourself instead of saying

Wont matter when you'll never know the difference.

??..
not that my opinion matters much anyway.. but for the hell of it..

 

[Infernal]

Are you one of those "you can always tell" guys?

I love those types of guys.

I feel a little guilty about it...but it's a bit of a thrill to be around your type when the topic of transsexuals comes up and they're vehement about how transsexuals always have adams apples or always have big square hands and narrow hips and are absolutely disgusting creatures, then later this guy who just a few days ago was talking about how he can always tell is trying to hook up with me.

It happens more then you think I've got nice wide hips and soft little hands for you to hold

Good girl. Hot trap is hot?

But seriously, It does make me laugh. I can't always tell but I'm quite a bit better at it than most of my friends. Being bisexual and having dated pre and post ops in the past helps immensely though. And really, who cares? I mean really, its like getting upset because you just found out that the hamburger you enjoyed immensely is actually made of soy. Sure, children are out biologically if that is your goal (and that is at least somewhat understandable) but really, its all packaging.

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

Yeah, pics R worth 1000 words! We're not looking 4 a difference.

Me:

A few daze ago.

 

[BumpyJohnson]

thanks goddess.. and your right.. we're not looking for a difference..

 

[sugarcoated]

why don't ya post a picture of yourself

Why don't you open a dictionary and look up "stealth"?

not that my opinion matters much anyway.. but for the hell of it..

"For the hell of it" I should roll the dice on outing myself in any context? No thanks. Are you one of those people that seems to feel the internet is so vast as to be practically anonymous? Cause I sure have seen straight up "outings" and a number of "close calls" from TS chicks posting their pictures on forums or using the same screen name. In one case I know of *just* a picture posted on some tiny little nothing TS support group forum got a girl outed to several of her real life acquaintances.

Also, at this point if I posted a picture then you'd simply go over it with a magnifying glass and look for any tiny little nothing detail you could maybe finger as being kinda "masculine" and you'd jump on it with a feeling of "AH-HA! YA SEE! Her nose is not a tiny perfect little stereotype upturned button nose!"

That's not how you look at people in day to day life. You make an instant classification in your head of "male" or "female" and you'll pretty much stick to it barring the person sending up some decently strong red flags or a lot of minor mixed gender cues. People exist on a spectrum of masculine and feminine features. For transsexuals this simply means that to achieve various levels of "passability" we have to slide as many features, towards "feminine" as we can.

Some of us are lucky and start pretty reasonably in the middle of the spectrum or even on the "feminine" side in a lot of ways. Some of us are not lucky and will probably never be able to get enough "female" cues to override some of their more masculine ones.


Anyways...people who are for sure that they've got awesome trannydar and will always find something to give away a transsexual often are pretty dense about what to look for and are always thinking it's going to be one feature that's always a dead giveaway. But that's not how passability works in the real world. One feature will only be a giveaway if it's slid pretty firmly into masculine territory. Usually it will take a combination of pretty serious red flags to definitely decide someone in a transsexual.

 

[sugarcoated]

This part is going to sound mean but I mean no disrespect. In my perception I would consider Goddess LSD to be pretty strongly unpassable. I'm actually a little surprised to hear that she ever actually passes.

Because of living with a super sensitivity to my own gender cues that conflict with my internal identity, like most other transsexuals I've got trannydar way above and beyond most peoples.

Myself...I've been lucky enough that I tend to pass as a normal female even with other transsexuals. Having a transsexual discuss transsexuality with me as though I know little to nothing about the condition is pretty amusing

 

[BumpyJohnson]

Also, at this point if I posted a picture then you'd simply go over it with a magnifying glass and look for any tiny little nothing detail you could maybe finger as being kinda "masculine" and you'd jump on it with a feeling of "AH-HA! YA SEE!

sorry to inform ya but.. i'm just NOT that shallow.. but i do find it hard when ya say things like "i'd never know the difference" without anything to go on.. but i admit that I don't have much experience in the field (and happy I haven't) ..
please note.. I wouldn't want you to put all that on the line sugarcoated by posting a picture.. and after I posted what i wrote, I realized exactly what I said.. the choice to 'stealth' is yours and yours alone.. even if I disagree.. just know that does not mean I'm lacking respect for you.. or for your choices.. k?

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

Sugar, I rarely get clocked, go to straight clubs and get picked up quite often.

The TS in that new TV show, "Dirty, filthy money." had un-feminine nuances. Most pre-ops do 'cause of the testosterone. I'm also 52 years old.

Wonder how many women think you're a straight woman? I can never keep it straight with them very long. Mostly due to voice and subject-matter of conversations.

My TS (pre-op) friend is a hairdresser, lived full time since 12 years old is okay at work but is an embarassment at the clubs.

 

[sugarcoated]

Sugar, I rarely get clocked, go to straight clubs and get picked up quite often.

I'm glad to hear that. Life as hopelessly unpassable transsexual has always seemed like one of the cruelest hands destiny could deal. I'm mostly remarking that I've seen a lot of transsexuals whom I've thought to be mostly unpassable that get by just fine simply because people aren't as perceptive to various "reads" as they might like to think they are.

So I'm just saying passability in the eye of the beholder and most beholders have less then the fantastic vision they often think they have. I used to be taken as female pretty often even before I transitioned.

Wonder how many women think you're a straight woman? I can never keep it straight with them very long. Mostly due to voice and subject-matter of conversations.

To my knowledge I've never had an issue passing with either gender. These days I don't have many female friends..or really many close friends at all...but a few years back when I did have a number of female friends and acquaintances I never had a problem and I'm much more feminine looking and acting now then I was back when I did have female friends. So I can only assume I'm getting by mostly without incident.

 

[Beatlebot]

sugarcoated.. with what your saying.. why don't ya post a picture of yourself instead of saying
??..
not that my opinion matters much anyway.. but for the hell of it..

If you need to be convinced that t's not always easy to tell the difference you can take this quiz just as an example:
http://www.hemaleorshemale.com/

 

[sugarcoated]

but i do find it hard when ya say things like "i'd never know the difference" without anything to go on.

Forget about me personally, me personally doesn't matter except in the sense that I'll relate some ancedotes and remark on the transsexual condition from someone that's been there. My personal appearance isn't really much of an issue except for as a grounds for relating my own personal experiences.

The jist of what I am trying to say is that there are a lot of transsexuals out there who are extremely extremely "passable", that have wide hips, have very feminine facial features, little girlish hands, are petite, etc.

So I just find it silly when people make statements about how a transsexual is going to have man hands and man hips or an adams apple or is going to smell like a guy or any number of generalizations that I know are not really true.

I guess I should be glad that people think these things because the easier people think transsexuals are to spot then the easier it is for us to pass. But mostly it just annoys me

 

[sugarcoated]

If you need to be convinced that t's not always easy to tell the difference you can take this quiz just as an example:
http://www.hemaleorshemale.com/

11 out of 12.

That was actually relatively easy. There was only one transsexual on that page that was really remarkably passable. (Hooray for FFS) The others need some work done to attain a really strongly passable appearance imo.

 

[Jabberwocky]

damn 7/12 for me.

 

[aanallein]

Pictures and real life are completely different. You can tell by a person's walk and body structure more than anything out of a picture. Legs are also a pretty good give away, as is shoulder structure.

Anyway, no I would never be with a woman who was a man. If they have a Y chromosome I'm simply not interested. We might be able to be great friends but never intimate.. I would be perpetually flaccid and that's not very fun sex.