Confusion about GABA receptors

[mewmew2]

I have a few questions about GABA receptors (if they are receptors, I've read them called that) and please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this (including if mentioned items don't effect GABA) and if my terminology is incorrect please point that out as well.

If you're addicted to benzos and run out why can't you drink alcohol to avoid seizures. On that note, why can someone still at least feel alcohol or even get incredibly drunk when even they are huge benzo addicts and can't feel anything from even huge doses of benzos.

Does Kava effect GABA? It seems like I've read here that it does.

I know ambien is not a benzo, but have read it effects GABA. So, is there a massive cross-tolerance with this particular drug and benzos? For me, I can't feel ambien any more and I assumed it was because I take klonopin...is that the likely culprit?

I understand there are different GABA receptors so I realize this may help answer some of my questions, but I've never quite understood the different receptors.

Thank you all very much.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

I think it's just certain GABA-interactive drugs just interact with the GABA receptors is all. It doesn't necessarily imply that that's what's causing addiction and tolerance.

I mean, there's alot of interactivity with serotonin from alot of psychadelics, but you don't get addicted to them just because they interact with certain receptors.

I can't really provide much more than that, just that to think that just because they act on certain receptors doesn't mean that's where addiction comes from. Could be wrong on this particular case though, but it just seems to me that that's your premise.

 

[mewmew2]

, just that to think that just because they act on certain receptors doesn't mean that's where addiction comes from. Could be wrong on this particular case though, but it just seems to me that that's your premise.

It is indeed the premise (except it's not strictly the addiction aspect) of my question, but knowing that I'm wrong is the reason I'm asking the question. I don't think your comparison of psychedelics and serotonin not resulting in addiction is applicable, but it may show how little I know of brain chemistry. My idea of GABA receptors is that there's a certain area in the brain that all GABA exciting drugs attach to and my idea of serotion is that it's an item (yes, that's vague because I don't know what I'm talking about), not a location'. Jeez, I realize I how dumb I sound, but thank you for weighing in and attempting to help me understand.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

There are both GABA receptors and seratonin receptors in the body, and brain. Both GABA and seratonin are neurotransmitters, and bind to certain receptors in the brain, synapses, part of a nerve cell.

I could explain it to you, but a great person named TheDEA.org did it best on his website. Check out this link, it's a great 101 into neurotransmitters.

http://thedea.org/theneuron.html

Basically neurotransmitters float between nerve cells, and 'things happen' when they attach to the synapses.

 

[Ham-milton]

The reason you don't have people becoming physically dependent on psychs isn't because of what receptor they bind to, but because of the effects they cause. Since they don't produce overwhelming euphoria with each use in the way that the more hedonistic drugs do, you don't have the push to reuse all the time- and the incredible tolerance produced by them.

There are all sorts of GABA receptors- tolerance and dependence is determined by which receptors they bind to.

 

[narutokun]

To the op: simple answers are what you want I think:
Ethanol is not GABAergic.
You cannot feel the effects of zolpidem because there is indeed a cross tolerance between clonazepam and zolpidem, both are GABAergic.
Your terminology isn't really that wrong, but there is room for improvement.

 

[mewmew2]

Those are some great answers, thanks guys. I always assumed alcohol was GABAergic (I learned a new word!) because the symptoms of w/d from both are similar and the effects (to me) used to be similar, but upon reflection that's piss poor reasoning. Good to know.

So, after all this, I guess it's a silly question, but if one drug that effects GABA receptors (like kava, if it even does) may not have any cross tolerance to a different drug that effects GABA receptors like benzos?

edit: I guess alcohol is GABAergic, it's nice to know the right terminology so I know what to search for, thanks.

 

[mewmew2]

To the op: simple answers are what you want I think:
Ethanol is not GABAergic.
You cannot feel the effects of zolpidem because there is indeed a cross tolerance between clonazepam and zolpidem, both are GABAergic.
Your terminology isn't really that wrong, but there is room for improvement.

Thanks for the info, it's nice to have concise answers that I and others can understand. But, if they are both GABAergic then why won't one cover the WD of the other (for instance if I WD from klonopin why can't I just consume tons of zolpidiem to keep away seizures?).

 

[Ham-milton]

yep. There are so many different gaba receptors that a whole range of effects can be produced. Cross tolerance may be incomplete or non existant between two sets of gaba receptors.

 

[Ham-milton]

for instance if I WD from klonopin why can't I just consume tons of zolpidiem to keep away seizures?).

Same reason as above. Some receptors will provide better anti-seizure activity when agonized. Zolpidem isn't that great of an anti-epileptic because of the receptors it hits.

Thus, it's not gonna help you out a lot in benzo withdrawal.

 

[narutokun]

Oh now you're saying that alcohol is the new all mighty GABA acting drug! Wow! I was trying to simplify things for him, not complicate it like you do. I agree saying that it isn't GABAergic is a little drastic but like I said if it was the case to explain for him why ethanol and benzos aren't equal:

alcohol to avoid seizures.

While ethanol can cause delirium tremens and benzos are used for treating serizures, getting into the finer aspects of pharmacology in order to explain him WHY; that would take a long time don't you agree? Ethanol is a general CNS depressant which GABA activity is poor compared to benzodiazepines, which is the drug he was questioning. GABA activity is not the only pathway for CNS induced depression as I suppose you are aware of.
But whatever, if you wanna discuss with him all the ethanol pharmacology step by step go ahead. I understand you like to make things difficult instead of simplifying. 8(

 

[Ham-milton]

Oh now you're saying that alcohol is the new all mighty GABA acting drug! Wow! I was trying to simplify things for him, not complicate it like you do. I agree saying that it isn't GABAergic is a little drastic but like I said if it was the case to explain for him why ethanol and benzos aren't equal: While ethanol can cause delirium tremens and benzos are used for treating serizures, getting into the finer aspects of pharmacology in order to explain him WHY; that would take a long time don't you agree? Ethanol is a general CNS depressant which GABA activity is poor compared to benzodiazepines, which is the drug he was questioning. GABA activity is not the only pathway for CNS induced depression as I suppose you are aware of.
But whatever, if you wanna discuss with him all the ethanol pharmacology step by step go ahead. I understand you like to make things difficult instead of simplifying. 8(

Alcohols effects are almost entirely mediated through GABA. Saying that it isn't GABAergic isn't just "drastic" is out an out and out lie. It has nothing to do with trying to simplify- that's your attempt to cover your ass when you make idiotic statements.

It may not be the only mechanism to depress the CNS, but it's the only one that EtOH hits. It's euphoria is caused (somewhat) by downstream opioid receptor activitation.

When you say that EtOH is a "general CNS depressant" do you really know what you're saying or are you just parroting? Yes, it depresses the CNS generally- but that's not the same as saying that it's a depressant with a wide range of depressant activity. It's depressant activity is about as focused as barbiturates- by modulating GABA.

read this.

 

[narutokun]

When you say that EtOH is a "general CNS depressant" do you really know what you're saying or are you just parroting? Yes, it depresses the CNS generally- but that's not the same as saying that it's a depressant with a wide range of depressant activity. It's depressant activity is about as focused as barbiturates- by modulating GABA.

I guess you don't know shit about NMDA pharmacology do you?

 

[Ham-milton]

Or you're arrogant enough to assume that we'll buy your intellectual dishonesty?

Are you not going to address the issue? Ethanol is an incredibly complicated intoxicant, but it's effect is still almost entirely mediated through GABA and some relatively minor downstream opioid receptor activation.

 

[Ham-milton]

I guess you don't know shit about NMDA pharmacology do you?

I can't say that it's my speciality, but depressants are. I'm well aware of Ethanols effects there, but that doesn't change the fact that virtually all of it's intoxicating effects are due to it's effect at GABA receptors.

If you want to read a really good paper about EtOH affects NMDA, read here.

It's effect at NMDA is important, no doubt, if we're talking about dependence and tolerance. Acute intoxication? Not so much.

 

[narutokun]

Are you going to actually address the topic or just make pointless posts that add nothing to the thread?

No, I'm done with it enough playing.
Seriously now, ethanol and NMDA was never of much interest to me; ketamine and it's analogues are a much more interesting study, just in case you're interested or something.

 

[sixpartseven]

narutokun, center, and ham-milton.

Quit deraling every thread one of you posts in. If it continues, you wont be around much longer.

 

[narutokun]

^Thank you, please extend that message to center's other screen names as well, such as "thedeadlywar".

 

[thedeadlywar]

I won't have such rumors be posted about me on this forum.

 

[johanneschimpo]

lol