Coffee, Anxiety and Psychedelics

[Jabberwocky]

Here is just a simple thought I was having this morning as I was sipping a nice cup of coffee and getting work started for the day.

Do you think coffee contributes to your overall level of anxiety and influences your psychedelic experiences in a negative way?

Lately been drinking a lot of coffee because I have a lot of work. Have not tripped very much at all in the last six months (a few low dose fun trips and a couple more intense trips). But, I feel the coffee eating away at my equanimity and stability. I wonder if it is a 'bad trip'* waiting to happen?

*my definition of a bad trip is a panic attack while on a psychedelic (ie not a trip with scary or intense mental content)

 

[Nitrous is Nice]

Well, do you drink coffee solely in the morning, or do you have several cups a day?

I think if you only drink it in the morning then simply not drinking any for 3 or so days before you're going to trip would negate any anxiety you were getting from drinking it.

However if you're drinking coffee regularly throughout the day, I could definitely see a potential for increased anxiety around the clock. I also think that it would influence your mindset going into a trip in a detrimental way. However, I could also see tripping under these circumstances as a potential way of breaking the coffee habit if it had been getting out of hand.

 

[squerll]

I love coffee I drink espresso but I don’t mix it with psychedelics. I have mixed it with DMT before and got strange results that I don’t want to repeat. I’m not totally sure if it was the caffeine but it seemed to warp the trip and put a mean edge on it.
I think stimulants and psychedelics are conflicting the psychedelics open your ego and break it down and the stimulants feed it and make it stronger.
I think when 2 chemicals conflict with each other they create a warped effect.

That is an interesting thought to think of the long-term effects of coffee and anxiety, I have never thought of that before.

Sometimes I feel like psychedelics unravel layers of anxiety in me especially ones like shrooms. But it feels good sometimes like I have to face it at a climax and then it climaxes and dissolves and I am free of it and can move to a deeper layer of self-discovery. Most of the time for me it feels like it is already there in myself and has been for years and the psychedelics just unravel it or if it is already unraveled I will have to face it in my next trip.

Could the coffee be building more anxiety in me as I am typing and drinking espresso?
Maybe, never thought of it before.

 

[Nitrous is Nice]

No doubt that there is a direct correlation between coffee consumption and anxiety.

I'm not much of a coffee drinker myself, but within the last year I've gone from drinking one or two sodas a day to maybe one a week. I noticed a slight decrease in anxiety over that time. Plus there's no doubt that I feel a lot better physically overall when I'm barely drinking any soda compared to when I would have one or two a day.

Now that I think about it, I'm really glad that I've been able to phase caffeine out of my diet as much as I have. To anybody who is pondering cutting down on their caffeine intake, my advice is to go for it. The positive benefits far outweigh the temporary lack of stimulation that the caffeine caused you.

 

[SKL]

FWIW I recently switched from coffee to green tea, which I think is overall better for you and goes better w/psychedelics (drank a shitton the last time I was tripping, wonderful sensory experience & clear mental stimulation). I'd give it a try.

 

[TVcommercial]

Actually, people that are anxious to begin with tend to drink more coffee. People just assume it's the other way around.


I don't think that would affect the trip too much, unless you were REALLY anxious or jumpy before tripping.

 

[Ptah]

I never drink coffee, but to go slightly offtopic I've always suspected that a world without coffee might look very different, and for the better...

 

[capEr]

I have quit psychs for about 3 years now. Within the past 3 years, but not so much anymore, I have dealt with anxiety due to psych use (mush, acid, E, pot). I would have weird panic attacks with a "flashback" sort of feeling. I found that drinking coffee or red bulls made it worse.

When I was dealing with this I was told by many to lay off the caffeine and it helped.

 

[feelgoodhit]

FWIW I recently switched from coffee to green tea, which I think is overall better for you and goes better w/psychedelics (drank a shitton the last time I was tripping, wonderful sensory experience & clear mental stimulation). I'd give it a try.

yeah, chai tea while tripping can be a wonderful experience. it's been a ritual for me this weekend...

 

[swilow]

FWIW I recently switched from coffee to green tea, which I think is overall better for you and goes better w/psychedelics (drank a shitton the last time I was tripping, wonderful sensory experience & clear mental stimulation). I'd give it a try.

Definitely true, plus green tea hydrates you, which coffee, erm, doesn't. Thats said, I drink about 6-8 cups (COFFEE) a day, which is a terrible idea as my nerves are frayed enough as it is. I am trying to cut down. I've heard it said that valerian root can be used as an anti-dote to excessive caffeine, as it has the reverse action, but I don't know. Yerba mate is good if you want a stronger caffeine dose that is still smoothet then coffee; I'd think its got something to do with the speed of metabolism or whatnot.

I would say, as an anxiuous person, I drink coffee to relieve my anxiety; usually I feel (and this is just everyday stuff) like I'm jumping outt my skin, but if I focus the stimulation on the "coffee buzz" I can disarm the unreasonable fear. But S_S, when I didn't drink coffee and didn't have a whopping tolerance, I read DMT: The Spirit Molecule and was surprised that Strassman got the volujteers to still drink their morning coffee before the DMT hit; rather that then risk a caffeine w/d headache. The reason I was surprised was because a standard cup of coffee used to make me race and tremble like a maniac at the point.

 

[Nitrous is Nice]

I've always suspected that a world without coffee might look very different, and for the better...

"Common knowledge & widely abused scare propaganda": Marijuana is a gateway drug.

But what about this theory...

Caffeine is a gateway drug that leads to a lifestyle of psychological addiction to stimulants & more!

^ I'd argue that the second "gateway" statement above is just as, if not more true, than the first. ^


1. Kids drink sodas, become addicted to the rush of caffeine at a very young age.
2a. Older kids begin drinking coffee for its higher caffeine content.
2b. Older kids begin drinking energy drinks to get that boost they need for whatever. <-- (new trend that is like the fast track version of a normal coffee addiction, also marketed towards kids down through the high school levels)
3. Imminent anxiety, strong tolerance for caffeine, general state of being more scatterbrained
4. ADD/ADHD!!! (Big grin from pharm companies)
5. Solution: Drugs that "cure" ADD/ADHD!
6. Adderall/Ritalin being prescribed younger and younger
7. Tolerance quickly builds
8. What now? Cocaine? Methamphetamine?
(also note by now several other psychological problems have bloomed in result to increasing level of hypertension/overstimulation/anxiety.... cure? Benzos! Anti-depressants!)
9. Parents wondering what happened to their happy, youthful children and the days they spent drinking mountain dew hanging out with their friends and playing video games.
10. The government knows what happened! MARIJUANA!
11. Nearly every measure possible is taken to make psychedelics (which happen to have fairly good success in breaking addictions) impossible to purchase, possess, and consume.
12. Back to the generation of the stimulant craving, confused ADD'ers
13. Pharm companies: "Oh we have just what you need to get your brain chemicals back to normal"
14. Government and Pharmaceutical companies hold hands and embrace in euphoric laughter as billions of dollars rain down upon their heads.
15. Schools: Look what happens to drug addicts. Don't smoke pot! Say no to drugs. Feel free to use the vending machine in the cafeteria to buy a soda to quench your youthful thirst.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Green tea i smy stimulant of choice. Sure, I love coffee....but I used to be so dependent on it, I would get headaches if I went without.

The nice thing about green tea is the l-theaine pretty much relaxes out any anxiety caused by the caffeine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Well, this thread has prompted me to give green tea a try again.

I have in the past used green tea, but always switched back to coffee. My stomach is also giving me some trouble (nausea and gagging sometimes).

It will be nice maybe to be a little less jittery!

thanks for your thoughts everyone...

peace and quiet harmony,
S_S

 

[Ximot]

coffee is a hardcore drug for sure - there have been times, after not having had any caffeine for a long time, where a strong cuppa would give me anxiety rushing up and down the arms like NEVER with either green tea or black tea. occasionally coffee will stimulate me in a pleasant way, but it tends to leave me strung out and craving more...

 

[5-HT2]

Like SKL and MGS, I prefer green tea and rarely ever drink coffee. Coffee makes me jittery, and gives me diarrhea, while green tea provides a much smoother stimulation.

 

[SKL]

*scurries off to put the kettle on*

 

[shannonsensimilla]

"Common knowledge & widely abused scare propaganda": Marijuana is a gateway drug.

But what about this theory...

Caffeine is a gateway drug that leads to a lifestyle of psychological addiction to stimulants & more!

^ I'd argue that the second "gateway" statement above is just as, if not more true, than the first. ^


1. Kids drink sodas, become addicted to the rush of caffeine at a very young age.
2a. Older kids begin drinking coffee for its higher caffeine content.
2b. Older kids begin drinking energy drinks to get that boost they need for whatever. <-- (new trend that is like the fast track version of a normal coffee addiction, also marketed towards kids down through the high school levels)
3. Imminent anxiety, strong tolerance for caffeine, general state of being more scatterbrained
4. ADD/ADHD!!! (Big grin from pharm companies)
5. Solution: Drugs that "cure" ADD/ADHD!
6. Adderall/Ritalin being prescribed younger and younger
7. Tolerance quickly builds
8. What now? Cocaine? Methamphetamine?
(also note by now several other psychological problems have bloomed in result to increasing level of hypertension/overstimulation/anxiety.... cure? Benzos! Anti-depressants!)
9. Parents wondering what happened to their happy, youthful children and the days they spent drinking mountain dew hanging out with their friends and playing video games.
10. The government knows what happened! MARIJUANA!
11. Nearly every measure possible is taken to make psychedelics (which happen to have fairly good success in breaking addictions) impossible to purchase, possess, and consume.
12. Back to the generation of the stimulant craving, confused ADD'ers
13. Pharm companies: "Oh we have just what you need to get your brain chemicals back to normal"
14. Government and Pharmaceutical companies hold hands and embrace in euphoric laughter as billions of dollars rain down upon their heads.
15. Schools: Look what happens to drug addicts. Don't smoke pot! Say no to drugs. Feel free to use the vending machine in the cafeteria to buy a soda to quench your youthful thirst.

hit the nail right on the head here

 

[colors]

i have bad anxiety, and caffeine and nicotine help if anything. similar to what wilow said.

stimulants in general are empowering (maybe deceivingly so, idk) and that helps combat unfounded fear. they keep me focussed and grounded in reality, and away from that dark place where no good ever seems to come from. there can be a rebound effect, but it's no worse than where i started.

i think some people are confusing 'jitters' for actual anxiety. i don't expect everyone to understand how bad it gets, but honestly caffeine is like a 1/100 on the grand scale. try to be realistic especially when you're talking about it in comparison to psychedelics. i hope that doesn't come off as pompous, just a different point of view.

 

[shannonsensimilla]

i think Yerba Mate is by far the healthiest, cleanest-feeling natural stimulant there is on the planet. though i have not tried coca or khat tea as both are pretty rare to have in the US.




from wikipedia.org/yerba_mate

"Mate contains xanthines, which are alkaloids in the same family as caffeine, theophylline, and theobromine, well-known stimulants also found in coffee and chocolate. Mate also contains elements such as potassium, magnesium and manganese.[12] Caffeine content varies between 0.3% and 1.7% of dry weight (compare this to 2.5–4.5% for tea leaves, and 1.5% for ground coffee)."

also note...

"An August 11, 2005, United States patent application (documents #20050176777, #20030185908,[23] and #20020054926) cites yerba mate extract as an inhibitor of MAO activity; the maximal inhibition observed in vitro was 40–50%. A monoamine oxidase inhibitor is a type of antidepressant, so there is some data to suggest that yerba mate has a calming effect in this regard.

In addition, it has been noted by the U.S. Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine that yerba mate can cause high blood pressure when used in conjunction with other MAO inhibitors (such as Nardil and Parnate). [24]"

 

[Nitrous is Nice]

i think some people are confusing 'jitters' for actual anxiety. i don't expect everyone to understand how bad it gets, but honestly caffeine is like a 1/100 on the grand scale. try to be realistic especially when you're talking about it in comparison to psychedelics. i hope that doesn't come off as pompous, just a different point of view.

I get what you're saying.

And Shannon, I like Yerba Mate too. The first time I tried it gave me some really good mental clarity. Almost felt like a small dose of amphetamine for me.