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Codeine Extraction

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Its seems we attraction attention cuase of that new story about long term perm hearing loss from andadeine daily dose cause deafness
i got bad hearing maybe from years of codeine? hmmm
any answers why or how?
is it come is it the way orphine break down that cause;s defness well codeine into morphine or is it mix APAP what cause hearing loss
any one here on BL deaf maybe drug cause it ay codeine long causes it
anyone see it on TV news and stuff
 
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First I've heard of it, more likely it'd be from the paracetamol then the codeine.
 
tadfish said:
Its seems we attraction attention cuase of that new story about long term perm hearing loss from andadeine daily dose cause deafness
i got bad hearing maybe from years of codeine? hmmm
any answers why or how?
is it come is it the way orphine break down that cause;s defness well codeine into morphine or is it mix APAP what cause hearing loss
any one here on BL deaf maybe drug cause it ay codeine long causes it
anyone see it on TV news and stuff

WTF?
 
I didn't see the TV reports, but I think there is more to this than has been reported. Codeine is on the list of ototoxic drugs but in all of the years I have worked with codeine addicts deafness has never been reported.
 
It would be from the APAP or ibuprofen.

A few times when i cbf doing the extraction/did a poor job my vision and hearing did some interesting and unpleasant things :/
 
justanotherperson said:
It would be from the APAP or ibuprofen.

A few times when i cbf doing the extraction/did a poor job my vision and hearing did some interesting and unpleasant things :/

I doubt one dose would have any noticeable effects on you.
 
Rolls, you'd be surprised. Some people are mighty sensitive.

In saying that though, it's Codeine that can cause hearing issues from what I can recall.
 
Oh Im sure they are, but effecting your vision? I know codeine can make you pretty woozy and make your vision dim/blurry in high doses, just didn't think that paracetamol/ibuprofen would.
 
I saw that report on the news too. They didn't mention para or ibo but i'm assuming thats the problem. I hope so, I do 300mg+ cwe twice a day. All the people on here who say a bit of paracetamol or ibuprofen won't hurt are crazy. You gotta filter slowly and properly. Drinking a bottle of scotch won't give you liver failure, but do it a few times a week for a decade or two and your liver will be screwed. I've been using heroin IV for nearly 20 years, and lots and lots of pills and methadone. My liver count and MRI are great. The doctors won't perscribe me anything stronger than codeine for a bad shoulder(coz of my abuse history), so i've been using codeine 5 or 6 times a week ( the other day or two i use heroin or morphine.
 
Oh yeah, and another thing, i don't drink the cwe, i plug it. Works SOOO much better than drinking it. I get a big 60 syringe from my friendly local hydroponic shop (they'd be shocked if i told em what i did with them) and i attach 4 inches of 3mm irigation tubing (hydo again lol). Put a little lube on the tube, warm the water a bit and squirt it on up there!!! Now, i know some of u may think this is very gay, but i'm a proffesional drug addict. If i was convinced shooting up dog anal boil pus got u high, I'd fucken do it!!!
 
rolls said:
I doubt one dose would have any noticeable effects on you.


nah, 3x 2.4g ibuprofen in 3 days. (popped the pills before school each day)


On the third day i woke up sweet as just like any other day and about 30mins after i ate them i started feeling 'funny'. Thought nothing of it, went to school and the symptoms just got worse. Extremely nauseous and dizzy, vision started fucking up (couldn't focus - was impossible trying to read from a book, also had these weird 'blind' spots), ears started ringing and hurting as if i had a high fever, mental confusion, stomach ache and a headache worse than the ones from a bzp comedown.

Went home, puked up this disgusting white chalk-paste shit and eventually feel asleep. :/
 
Wow, hope you took them with a lot of food or some antacid, otherwise you're asking for an ulcer. Also, you'd want to be drinking a lot of water; your kidneys will be taking a battering.

Seriously, it takes like 5 mins to do a cwe...
 
haha nah, i had them with my morning coffee before i went to school :P

yeah i knew the risks but laziness prevailed (was also in the middle of my month long affair with lady c :P ). Also i saw the max daily scripted dose was 3.2g so thought i was well below the danger line, guess not >_<

I don't do codeine much these days, but when i do it's always cwe'd with a microfibre cloth _b
 
Can someone please give me an answer to this, am afraid of health being at risk:

Have done CWEs before using coffee filters. Blah blah, awesome. But nowadays am not using codeine recreationally but rather low-dose as an anxiolytic.

So, doing CWEs was impractical so started to just swallow tablets. Originally this started as 1200-2000mg/120.8mg ibuprofen/codeine, split over the course of the day in 800mg or so doses. Then I realised I may be doing renal damage although felt safe (no symptoms of ibuprofen excess) since from readings, medical doses can be up around the 3000mg mark for severe pain.

This is when I had the ingenious idea of taking half nurofen plus and half mersyndol and maybe even some dispirin forte, so that the other ingredient less codeine is varied and hence organs sharing the brunt of not just ibuprofen but (1/2) ibuprofen and (1/2) paracetamol; or even less ratios if aspirin is used.

Thus at the moment 1400mg of ibuprofen and 3000mg of paracetamol is taken. Now I know nothing changed from this 'ingenious' idea since all it did was believe I could get even more codeine with the same potential for damage.

My question is, over the 3 months, (1) does this mean I may have done severe damage; are these quantities indicative of this scenario? (2) How do I get my liver function tested? (Preferrably without telling my doc I love to smash large quantities of Panadol)

Have had a kidney function test last week for something unrelated and came back normal but interestingly I was anaemic despite eating lots of red meat. Could lower levels of blood iron indicate deterioration of the liver? Would ask the Doc but she is good friends with the family.

From now on am going back to CWE just in case, but it would mean so much and I would be incredibly greatful if someone could alay or confirm my fears that my innards have taken a beating? Ie: at what level does damage occur??

PS: even if there is a little bit of damage, codeine has done wonders for my life, happiness, university and general mental well-being, it also means I drink a lot less. Long live the N+!!
 
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Maxy said:
I didn't see the TV reports, but I think there is more to this than has been reported. Codeine is on the list of ototoxic drugs but in all of the years I have worked with codeine addicts deafness has never been reported.

I saw the story. It's definitely the Codeine sending people deaf. Regular high dosage of a therapeutic use, and regular doses of 'drug abuse' of codeine.

Here is a reply from a DR on an ABC forum:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: DocMercury ® 7/07/2008 11:29:38 PM
Subject: Deaf from Codeine? post id: 3680267

Are they sure it is the codeine, since it doesn't seem to have the uniform effect of deafness in every patient with prolonged or excessive use of codeine?
Could it not be the phosphate component?

What kind of deafness?
Nerve deafness via transmission failure or nerve damage, or structural damage to any of the bone and tendon components of the inner ear?
Phosphate and bone are kith and kin with calcium, and maybe phosphate salts of neurally interactive pharmaceuticals aren't the best kind?

Be curious to see if codeine sulphate or codeine cloride would have the same side-effect.

There have been cases of acquired total deafness and the common denominator appears to be codeine forte prolonged dependence (over 2 or 3 years, every day) or multiple binging excess, for SOME people. not all.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
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Oh, Andrew K. MD; Ishiyama, Akira MD; Baloh, Robert W. MD. (2000). Deafness associated with abuse of hydrocodone/acetaminophen, Neurology, Volume 54(12), 27 June 2000, p 2345

Rapidly progressive deafness in healthy young persons is very unusual. We recently encountered two young patients who experienced profound bilateral hearing loss developing over a few weeks. Known primary causes of hearing loss were excluded. There was no response in either patient to high-dose oral prednisone. Both patients were addicted to high doses of hydrocodone in combination with acetaminophen. Hydrocodone is a semisynthetic narcotic analgesic that is chemically similar to codeine but more potent on a milligram basis and with greater addiction potential. 1 Deafness has been reported in association with high doses of propoxyphene, a similar compound. 2-4 We subsequently became aware of an abstract describing acute hearing loss in six other southern California patients abusing hydrocodone, suggesting that this is more than a random association. 5 Hydrocodone/acetaminophen (Vicodin [Knoll Pharmaceutical Company, Mount Olive, NJ] and others) is a commonly used recreational drug in the Los Angeles area, but an association with hearing loss is not well known.

Case reports.

Patient 1. A 34-year-old woman was addicted to Vicodin, which was originally started for migraine headaches. She adopted a regimen of 15 tablets (5 mg hydrocodone/500 ng acetaminophen) four times per day. She was otherwise healthy and had no family history of hearing loss. She had no history of trauma or exposure to known ototoxic medications. She first began to notice mild bilateral hearing loss after 3 years of regular Vicodin abuse. One month later, she noted a severe decrease in hearing bilaterally. She did not experience tinnitus or vertigo. Otologic and neurologic examination were normal. Serum electrolytes, urea nitrogen, creatinine, liver function tests, and Westergren erythrocyte sedimentation rate were all within normal limits. Antinuclear antibodies (ANA), treponemal serology, and HIV serology were negative. Pure-tone audiometry revealed flat, profound bilateral sensorineural hearing loss. Transient evoked and distortion product otoacoustic emissions were absent. Bithermal caloric irrigation produced nystagmus with peak slow-component velocities that were symmetric but at the lower limits of normal. Passive rotation-induced nystagmus in darkness had symmetric borderline-decreased gain with an increased phase lead at low frequencies of rotation. Brain MRI with and without gadolinium showed no abnormalities. The patient did not respond to high-dose oral prednisone therapy. Cochlear implantation resulted in restoration of functional hearing.

Patient 2.
A 32-year-old man with no family history of hearing loss took gradually escalating doses of Vicodin for 8 to 9 years, initially for migraine headaches. During the past few years, he took as many as 35 tablets per day. He noted acute fullness and mild hearing loss in the left ear. He subsequently noticed multiple stepwise deteriorations in hearing in the left ear interspersed with periods of stabilization lasting for 2 to 3 days. Simultaneously, in the right ear he experienced two sudden large declines in hearing with one intervening period of stabilization lasting approximately 1 week. There was no response to high-dose oral prednisone. He noted essentially complete deafness within 4 weeks of symptom onset. He had intermittent tinnitus approximately 2 weeks after the hearing loss began but he did not experience vertigo. Serum electrolytes, urea nitrogen, creatinine, liver function tests, Westergren erythrocyte sedimentation rate, ANA, treponemal serology, and HIV serology were all unremarkable. Audiometry revealed bilateral downsloping sensorineural hearing loss that was moderate at low frequencies and severe at higher frequencies. Repeat testing 1 month later showed substantial progression to profound bilateral hearing loss. Transient evoked and distortion product otoacoustic emissions were not measurable. Bithermal caloric testing and quantitative rotational testing were normal. Contrast-enhanced brain MRI was normal.

Discussion.
The differential diagnosis of rapidly progressive bilateral sensorineural hearing loss includes infection, trauma, autoimmune diseases, and ototoxic drugs. Narcotic analgesics are not commonly associated with ototoxicity. Our patients had no other identifiable cause for sudden deafness. They were both taking high doses of Vicodin when their symptoms started. The results of auditory and vestibular function testing were similar in the two patients. Pure tone audiometry documented rapidly progressive sensorineural deafness. Otoacoustic emissions were absent and brain MRI failed to reveal any lesions of the vestibulocochlear nerve or central structures. Despite the profound affect on hearing, vestibular function was relatively spared. The audiometric finding of a sensorineural pattern of hearing loss in these patients is consistent with a lesion of either the end organ or the cochlear nerve. The absence of otoacoustic emissions, which are a measure of outer hair cell function, suggests that the sensory end organ was the site of damage. The fact that cochlear implantation resulted in restoration of useful hearing in one of our patients supports a predominantly cochlear rather than retrocochlear process. The relative sparing of vestibular function in the face of profound auditory dysfunction also suggests a sensory rather than a neural origin.

The nature of the relationship between opiates and hearing loss is not known, but the presence of genetic factors may explain why some patients abusing opiates develop clinically remarkable ototoxicity whereas most do not. Recently, familial cases and even some sporadic cases of aminoglycoside-associated sensorineural deafness have been attributed to mutations in the mitochondrially encoded 12S ribosomal RNA gene. 6 Other workers have shown that the cochlea is the site of pathology that causes hearing loss in mitochondrial encephalomyopathy, lactic acidosis, and strokelike episodes syndrome. 7 Tissues particularly susceptible to damage in mitochondrial disorders are those that are postmitotic and highly metabolically active. These include brain, muscle, retina, and, in the inner ear, hair cells. It is tempting to speculate that a genetic mutation may give rise to selective vulnerability in hydrocodone-induced ototoxicity. Because Vicodin and its congeners are so widely used and because of the profound functional significance of rapidly progressive hearing loss, physicians prescribing hydrocodone and hydrocodone-containing compounds must be aware of the possible association with severe cochlear toxicity.
 
KingConvenience said:
Can someone please give me an answer to this, am afraid of health being at risk:

Have done CWEs before using coffee filters. Blah blah, awesome. But nowadays am not using codeine recreationally but rather low-dose as an anxiolytic.

So, doing CWEs was impractical so started to just swallow tablets. Originally this started as 1200-2000mg/120.8mg ibuprofen/codeine, split over the course of the day in 800mg or so doses. Then I realised I may be doing renal damage although felt safe (no symptoms of ibuprofen excess) since from readings, medical doses can be up around the 3000mg mark for severe pain.

This is when I had the ingenious idea of taking half nurofen plus and half mersyndol and maybe even some dispirin forte, so that the other ingredient less codeine is varied and hence organs sharing the brunt of not just ibuprofen but (1/2) ibuprofen and (1/2) paracetamol; or even less ratios if aspirin is used.

Thus at the moment 1400mg of ibuprofen and 3000mg of paracetamol is taken. Now I know nothing changed from this 'ingenious' idea since all it did was believe I could get even more codeine with the same potential for damage.

My question is, over the 3 months, (1) does this mean I may have done severe damage; are these quantities indicative of this scenario? (2) How do I get my liver function tested? (Preferrably without telling my doc I love to smash large quantities of Panadol)

Have had a kidney function test last week for something unrelated and came back normal but interestingly I was anaemic despite eating lots of red meat. Could lower levels of blood iron indicate deterioration of the liver? Would ask the Doc but she is good friends with the family.

From now on am going back to CWE just in case, but it would mean so much and I would be incredibly greatful if someone could alay or confirm my fears that my innards have taken a beating? Ie: at what level does damage occur??

PS: even if there is a little bit of damage, codeine has done wonders for my life, happiness, university and general mental well-being, it also means I drink a lot less. Long live the N+!!

1) Yes you may have.
2) Not sure how you'd go about getting a liver test. Perhaps say to doctor that you woke up with a hangover and noticed that you'd had some paracetamol when you were really drunk. Not just one or two, you must have had like 8. Now you're worried because of the alcohol/paracetamol combo and what it may have done to you. Don't know if this would get you a test but it might do.

From what I've read, the highest single dose of ibuprofen is 800mg, with a daily max of 3200mg. Given the potential risks, I'd say this would only be given when an opioid/ate couldn't be given, and then only for a couple of days. Even though the spread out amounts of ibuprofen and paracetamol you're taking would be safe for a day or two, I'd imagine 3 months of use could do some pretty nasty things.

Also, you can't just look at the effects of each chemical and measure them separately, you're taking them together so it's going to add up. Especially for your kidneys, they will be getting a fair workout trying to remove all that stuff daily.

So,
a) Get tests done if you can
b) Try a true anxiolytic; codeine isn't really a good solution for anxiety. Give OTC ones like St John's wort a go, then if that doesn't work talk to your doc about stronger stuff. It'll be cheaper than buying all those codeine tabs and presumably more effective.
c) If you're going to keep using the codeine, do the cwe's! You could make up enough for a couple of days so you only have to do it twice a week.
 
Not sure how you'd go about getting a liver test. Perhaps say to doctor that you woke up with a hangover and noticed that you'd had some paracetamol when you were really drunk.

If you have liver damage, it will initially show up in a std liver function test; ALT, AST, Alk phos etc, and results may initially indicate acute damage. However, if a biopsy or CT scan is then done, the damage will show as chronic.
 
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