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Codeine & CWE Megathread: Version II - [insert witty title]

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you're the one not coming to terms of the facts, according to footsy. i can't imagine the sydney's waterboard guidelines adhering to much of a difference than melbourne's.

you're probably filtering in a more efficient manner or your tolerance has dropped or you're using more than usual. or something, something.

come on, man...
 
Just going to back up Susty here and confirm I noticed the same difference. I have my theories but I am far from an expert and am way to scattered to think clearly. Sediments in pipes etc.

Maybe we are both crazy?
 
Sustanon said:
Back to the bottled water, Ive repeated this experiment a number of times and can vouch that it is not placebo. I really dont understand how some people are having problems to come to terms with the facts. The water here contains all sorts of shit, now I am no expert but out of the many chemicals found in the water surely one or more of them can react with the codeine in negative or positive ways.

What are these facts you think people are having trouble coming to terms with? I haven't seen you post any facts at all, you've just relayed a personal experience. My comment earlier was directed at the misconceptions people can have around tap vs. bottled water, not necessarily that I don't believe there could be a difference between using bottled or tap water. I just think you should give other Bluelighters more credit than to expect everyone to 'come to terms with the facts', when you haven't posted any. Personally, if there was a difference I would suspect perhaps a different pH level between bottled and tap water. I'd be interested to see your research though.
 
Ok I decided to use spring water like suggested, I'm out of coffee filters so I just used a damp shirt. Dropped about 30mg of Promethazine and filtered about 45 pills in 100ml of water. Took about 10mins all up, squeezed every bit of liquid out and it came back exactly 100ml. Pretty cloudy but I always get that even with coffee filters.

It's been 10mins since I took it and I can definitely feel the difference, wow! From all my failed attempts I can safely it's a lot better to use spring water.

Feeling gooood! Might pop a few valiums.
 
^ take it easy man, promethazine, codeine and Valium combined is a recipe for OD.. If you do take the Valium please take a really small dose to see how you go.
 
And yeah sus personal experience or anecdotal evidence is not fact, you know this. Until you can provide actual factual, scientific evidence then obviously you are going to come up against skeptics. People often pull you up on this so maybe you need to think about what you write a bit more before you just go and put your foot in it. I trust a lot of the info you post up about your personal experiences, you have plenty of experience with codeine and opiates but your lack of scientific and objective reasoning lets you down sometimes. And if it is true maybe its not the water at all but something in the cloth of one of your shirts or something, there are a shit ton of variables in this experiment. Still, I am interested to see what you come up with, you should approach it like a scientific experiment, stick to a simple and easily repeatable method and do it a few times and see what you come up with. Again it's going to be hard to prove the results scientifically without actually testing the outcome using a ms/gc test but your anecdotal evidence will still be interesting. Maybe you could do something like evaporate off the water from each test and weigh the solid matter you obtain? And you should use litmus paper and check the ph of both the tap and bottled water and then find a study on how codeine reacts with water of different ph levels. That would be cool. Also make sure you use a thermometer and keep the temps even, also use all the same equipment, it's not going to be scientifically sound unless everything is exactly the same in each experiment.

And sorry I'm not having a dig man, you're a cool guy and I respect your knowledge and experience and enjoy your posts but I think you should keep people's criticisms in mind when it comes to stuff like this.

And to everyone who is against tap water, much of the bottled water in the world is dirtier than our tap water, we have it pretty good in this country. Also the water in most bottled water comes from pretty much the same sources as our tap water, not from some pristine spring in a little valley high in the blue mountains. Check out some proper scientific research done into bottled water, you may be shocked by what you find.
 
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Actually, tap water is held to much stricter guidelines than bottled water here in Australia. My dad works for Melbourne Water, and at one stage they looked into producing bottled water - but producing a bottled water held to the same strict standards Melbourne Water adheres to for tap water was entirely unfeasible, cost wise. A bottled water product, tested and purified to meet the same regulations for tap water, couldn't compete price wise against other bottled water brands. Something to consider next time you're drinking your Mt Franklin

That's really interesting. I've always trusted my tastebuds and olfactory perception when it comes to drinking tap water, and I find that Melbourne's is pretty good. Actually, it's fantastic in comparison to other parts of the world I've lived in, where you would never drink what came from the tap.
 
Thank u to everyone who responded to my post, u guys are right I think I didnt word things the way I should have. I know its not right but yeah English is my 2nd language so I apologize for that. Ill definitely word it in a different format next time and try to provide a bit more scientific information. As most of u guys have probably noticed nearly all of my posts are usually based upon personal first hand experiences not from the internet or through other people.

There are certainly times where I have no scientific facts to back up some claims (Im not a very scientific guy anyways tbh and my researching isnt always up to par due to less and less time these days mixed in with a bit of laziness too I have to admit). There are soooo many things that cannot be explained or hard to find evidence. When researching for spring water/tap water I always come to a dead end anyway as Im not even really sure where to even start as it is not a common topic and my chemistry skills arnt the greatest.

I only mentioned it because I personally noticed a difference and I can see a few others who have actually tried this method just recently say they did notice a change. I am very interested in how this works also and this is why I actually posted this on here so maybe someone who is a lot more knowledgeable on this topic than I am would know the answer. I wrote the last bit because I noticed that people were calling out placebo when in reality they have not tried it this way which kind made me feel a little unsettled / upset.

It would be great if more people could try this method out especially those who discredit my experience so they too would have a more accurate end result. Going back to the tap water topic, the water is fine in Sydney. Its actually one of the best tasting waters in the world compared to a few others that I have tried including where I lived in EU (tasted quite metallic / chlorine or some form of chemicals even at times in different locations).

I would be really curious to have a comparison to tap and bottled water and see what they actually contain and if they contain anything at all that helps / works against a CWE in general.
 
"tap water" really could make a difference, some places that that have "hard water" for example may have some have differences but Sydney metro and the Illawarra have way way way too much fluoride added which for me is a much bigger reason to think about bottled (make sure it is fluoride free) than a drop in potency. It's simply too poisonous, LOL I don't let my cat drink it. 1mg/L has been shown to be toxic to the brain, bones and teeth...also causes cancer so the experts say.
 
Been about 6 weeks but I am overdue for a pharmacy visit. Tonights combo should get me where I want to go. Couple of bowls, make CWE, have a Restavit & wait 30 mins then drink CWE, wait another 30 mins & have 10mg val & a few more bowls.
 
^if you can you should hold out with the cones untill about 20-30mins after you take your cwe.
It will potentiate it in a real nice way.

I know but I do enjoy a few hot ones watching the cricket. Decided to lower my dose to 450mg from 550-600mg for tonight but I noticed the pharmacy guy treated me different today. Usually I purchase during the week when I can pop into a random pharmacy & I am in a suit or at least a shirt & pants. They are always nice & explain to me to be careful as it can be addictive. Today I went in a tshirt & shorts with tatts hanging out & was treated like a leper at my local pharmacy.

I will have another couple of hotties & then have my glass of raspberry bitters 7.30-8.00.
 
I always used to just vape some buds whilst waiting for the codeine to kick in (not like it takes that long anyway but sometimes u just wanna feel it now!) LOL They synergize very well with each other both hitting u at the same time:) ahhhhh
 
So OT but for anyone who's interested about the bottled water vs tap water debate, I picked my very own hydrologist's brains about this tonight when I visited him ;)

Someone asked about whether bottled water contains flouride - most doesn't. The rare bottled waters that actually are bottled from 'mountain springs' are the main ones that contain flouride - naturally occurring flouride in low doses. In Victoria, most other bottled waters are sourced from a tap in Cardinia - this accesses the water before it has been treated with flouride. Otherwise, that water is the same water that comes through your tap in Melbourne. For bottled water, the water is filtered but not through a fine grade activated carbon filter. The filter is mainly to improve the appearance of the bottled water, which would otherwise contain visible sedimentation.

In terms of the different standards between bottled vs tap water - the important one is that bottled water contains no standards for microorganisms. Meaning that bottled water is legally allowed to contain microorganisms! Bottled water goes through a UV sterilisation process but it happens after the bottles have been labelled - so that not all of the water will ever be sterilised.

There are so many misconceptions around bottled and tap water. Although I don't necessarily agree with mass medicalisation of water with flouride, the hysteria around tap water is ridiculous. Think about it - if you're selling a product at 1000 times the price someone can access it from the tap, it's in your best interests, or even necessary, to give people a damn good reason why they need the expensive version. It's to be expected that bottled water companies will exploit the fears of the public to promote their product - and unfortunately, many people have fallen for it.
 
^ i love that line in that shitty movie 'reality bites' (if anyone remembers it) about how "Evian" is "naive" spelt backwards.
it freaks me out when people use bottled water for IV injection (for the reasons of microorganisms you mention above footsy).

water is a pretty fascinating topic, especially with the obscene waste of single-use plastic bottles we have seen since buying bottled water became part of western culture sometime in the 90s. a very successful marketing campaign, if you ask me - as it is practically free from the tap, yet other parts of the world, people die from lack of clean drinking water.
yet we buy it in overpriced, colourful bottles that degrade and lose elasticity (releasing random molecules into the drink) if we reuse them? so hideously wasteful. it's like, this necessity for people to carry a bottle everywhere they go - especially jogging and shit 'fitness'. can't we just have a glass of water or two to stay hydrated? monkey-see, monkey-do if you ask this cynical ape.

as to the CWE question - i know very little about the science of these things, but is it possible that one of the minerals or additives (chlorine or whatever else is in there?) in tap water binds to the actives (reducing or altering solubility - or not allowing as much of the codeine to pass through the filter somehow)?

perhaps this is another hypothesis worth considering in this debate over tap vs bottled water?

there's also that amazingly powerful and scientifically proven placebo effect that can always come into play.
just the right match in colours and designs in the pill packaging and the shades of blue on the water bottle that remind you of hard sweaty nights on the dance floor - and what do you know?! you're off your face!
like shopping malls are designed and lit to encourage our consumerist hunter-gatherer-hoarder urges, labels on consumer products are a study in design psychology all in their own.
psychological triggers - when it comes to reward pathways and colour associations - are powerful and lurk somewhere in our subconscious. so many factors when it comes to (home extracted) psychoactive drugs.

much like the batches of LSD (or whatever Owsley was selling in california in the mid-late 60s) that were the same chem, the same dosage - yet elaborate and well-known mythologies sprung up about which tablets were "chilled" and so fourth. the power of colour, the power of suggestion - and that beautiful old favouite of mine - the power of set and setting!

it's also worth considering the natural endorphins your body has produced that day. i've had wildly unpredictably ecstatic highs from my daily dose of pod tea, codeine or whatever following (or followed by - like i say, it's very hard to reproduce these results) a day of exertion; a hurried bike ride or some good energetic sex - and low and behold, i'm high as fuck - euphoric and nodding, on just a 'normal' dose.
opiates are a strange beast. it's a bit like how people are more likely to overdose (with the same dose, the same batch, the same ROA they've done for years, etc) in an unfamiliar place than they are at home.
it is true that we can only speculate on why some things make us feel the psychoactive effects more than other things - like why i can have a lovely dose of pod tea, feel great at home then go out to a party and feel utterly straight.

when it comes down to it, that the human body, the human mind and associated biorhythms and neurochemistry are extremely complicated things and difficult to predict.

funny how the "facts" get contradicted so frequently when it comes to matters of health and understandings of the body. to me "facts" is one of those words that gets my bullshit detector on high alert to begin with.

when i'm not nodding out after a beautiful shag, that is <3 ;)<3
 
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Good post space...to me, this just seems unlikely though:

spacejunk said:
as to the CWE question - i know very little about the science of these things, but is it possible that one of the minerals or additives in tap water binds to the actives (reducing solubility or not allowing as much of the codeine to pass through the filter somehow)?

The minerals in water are found at extremely low levels, they're counted as parts per million - for most minerals, less than one part per million. Or to more easily conceptualise that for this reason, mg per litre. Compare that with a 400mg cwe - and forgive me if my maths is wrong - but I find it very doubtful that something at less than 1 mg per litre could have any noticeable effect on 400mg codeine - even if there was a molecule that changed the effect of codeine 100%, it'd affect a very small amount of the entire amount of codeine. If we assume a direct 1:1 relationship (which can't necessarily be assumed, but nevertheless, the amounts we're talking are tiny), the amount of codeine affected would be 00.25% of your whole extraction if it was in a litre of water. Or in other words, 1mg of codeine gained or lost. At the amounts we're talking for cdubs, the percentage is even less - because there's even less of the trace minerals in the 100mls or so used in the average cdub.
 
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agree completely - just chucking it out there.

i suppose the second part of what i was thinking is that the determined solubility of codeine in water - is that demineralised water?
standard tap water?
i'm a total layman on this subject so i was just chucking some ideas around that came from reading these posts, because for me - from a scientific background that is more general interest than academic - some of the conclusions being drawn seemed set in a particular way of thinking, so i thought i would chuck in some other possibilities into the mix to lively up the conversation some.

your insight and wisdom is a blessing to these boards footsy :)
thanks to papa footsy too!
 
^ Haha - the flattery should all go to papa foots - def :P

I don't know the exact science behind it either. I know that the pH of bottled water vs tap water is often different. Tap water is usually an ideal neutral pH of around 7 - the same as blood, where it's claimed bottled water can be acidic, with a pH of around 4. I've taken an anatacid as a codeine potentiator for ages as I've heard codeine absorbs better in a more alkaline environment - that's what originally made me think the tap water vs bottled water could have something to do with pH. A consideration, anyway :)

Also -
Sustanon said:
Just get some tap water and hold it up in the light. Who knows what it may contain:S

You can know, if you read one of the extensive water quality reports! :P
Here's Sydney's ;)
 
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Interesting Sust.... I will give it a try next time. We actually have a water dispenser at home so Ill give that a try. We also have a water filter that connects to the regular tap which is supposed to filter out all the shit from tap water and reduce its alkalinity (apparently most water, even bottled water has a high alkaline value and that can be bad for cancer.... people in my house are on a health trip atm.... low sugar, low alkaline water etc)...

Anyway, Ill try our water dispenser, regular tap water run through the filter and also bottled water..... some time in the next week.

Which brand water did you use?
 
Woke up yesterday to another CWE mess. Empty food plates & wrappers all over the shop & last nights sludge on the sink in a filter. Whenever I mix codeine, bud & benzos I seem to make an enormous amount of mess in my place.
 
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