Coaxil and the Crocodile: Post-Soviet Heroin Substitutes

qwe said:
i'm wondering if any of our harm reduction can reach them (even just information), and decrease the number of cases of rotting skin?
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I hate to sound cynical, but I respond to this in the same way I do to BL helping the C/H epidemics stateside (only more in the extreme) - give most hardcore addicts a fancy computer and they're probably not going to use it to look up information about drugs online. A percentage can, will and do - like those who end up at BL - but I think that as long as the BL effort remains web-specific, groups who don't have consistent internet access will always remain an extra hop away from what we at BL can really do.

We're probably better off hoping that Russians who might not use deso- themselves will read our site and become inspired to make change in what's going on in their country. Perhaps? Would LOVE to actually have any Russian BLers post in this thread. Any of you out there?

I wonder what %'s of deso- users really know what it is that they are using. I mean, how many could state the term 'desomorphine,' how many could make a crude differentiation between desomorphine, diacytalmorphine, codeine, etc., how many users might actually think this is 'a different kind of heroin', and so on...I really wonder how widespread factual knowledge of what this stuff is within their communities.

Something in me wants to read someone's TR about this. My morbid curiosity wants to know what the high is like when compared to other opiates.

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One more thing. I actually was thinking about this article while driving home from copping this morning, and it really hit home that this is actually what our media wants to scare us into believing drugs are. All along, I've viewed the common Western opinion of drugs as a bunch of misinformation, extremism and so forth. Well this stuff, desomorphine in Russia, is actually 'drugs' existing as bad as we're made to think our drugs (clean H, for example) are.

If our dope was taken away and replaced with something this ugly for what our 'drugs' are, I don't think my views on using them, people I know using them, and the overall integration of them in our society would be the same. I would genuinely want people off of this stuff and would probably feel way different about drug use. Kinda weird, really.

Again, this content makes me feel very uncomfortable. I cannot imagine how depressing it would be living around this (if I think living around C/H is depressing enough).
 
RedLeader said:
One more thing. I actually was thinking about this article while driving home from copping this morning, and it really hit home that this is actually what our media wants to scare us into believing drugs are. All along, I've viewed the common Western opinion of drugs as a bunch of misinformation, extremism and so forth. Well this stuff, desomorphine in Russia, is actually 'drugs' existing as bad as we're made to think our drugs (clean H, for example) are.
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I was thinking about this too, and the potential for this to be misconscrewed and used as a blanket statement regarding all drugs.
 
considerring that shes missing half of her right arm, that poor woman is acting a lot more stoicly than i would be. As a former junky with over 18 mos clean I'd be bitching and freaking out like a mother fucker if someone put a sterilised cotton ball on my tibia.

anyone else find it strange she still grooms/trims her pubic hair? just sayin...
 
I wrote a follow-up to my earlier post here.

What are the actual ingredients commonly used in making krokodil? Iodine and phosphorus appears to be important, since many reports mention it. And from the mentions of gasoline and paint thinner I'm going to guess that they are trying to do some kind of reaction which involves a polar solvent. ISTR another report that said lithium batteries were used in some recipes, not for the lithium catalyst but for the thionyl chloride contained inside. But, alas, I have little knowledge of chemistry and no way of determining how many of these reports are correct or even plausible. I know that there is some question as to how much if any desomorphine is contained in a dose of krokodil.

I suspect a lot of the damage comes from pill particles, especially if they are backloading this shit into syringes as some reports suggest. But I'm curious as to what else is going on here. Alas, Russian media tend to sensationalize drug stories in a major way - and foreign correspondents tend to translate the stuff they see in local newspapers. So while I'm fairly certain this stuff is horrible and toxic, I also think that these reports need to be taken with several grains of salt.
 
To make "krokodil", people use:
- tablets containing: 8mg or 10mg codeine + caffeine + phenobarbital + methamizole (+ paracetamol or naproxen)
- iodine,
- formic acid ethanol solution,
- petroleum,
- red phosphorus,
- thionyl chloride from lithium-thionyl chloride batteries.

Take industrial petroleum and lithium batteries and you've got heavy metals mentioned to have been found in this dirty solution that is injected. What leads to rotting of flesh and its separation from bones looks like a phosphorus poisoning. And adding red phosphorus is crucial here, otherwise demethylating wouldn't be possible and no desomorphine (or other 3-hydroxy, i.e. morphine-like instead of codeine-like, compounds) would be synthesized. But if I'm to be honest, I don't think desomorphine is the main opioid Russians taking "krokodil" get high off. The way they do it all certainly leads to the ether bridge cleavage. This usually means a big decrease in potency. It's probably α-chloromorphide that gets them high. And they would be much more smart if they aimed at this compound instead (but still they'd use red phosphorus so the outcome would be the same probably, as long as they have no way to safely demethylate, they will suffer and lose parts of their body; one smart-ass injected into his neck, he lost his head and while you can live without legs and hands, you can't live without your head). But just look at the ingredients of tablets they get codeine from... NSAIDs and paracetamol you don't know what they transform into when in contact with chemicals they use.

I know it may be a bit chaotic and mysterious to read this (like why they'd still need to use red phosphorus to demethylate) but really this is such a crude process I don't want to give any unnecessary thoughts for "kitchen chemists". This is a total no-no. This is not the way desomorphine used to be/should be/is synthesized in lab. When this is accomplished in the lab, desomorphine is by no means more toxic than any of the widely used semi-synthetics like hydrocodone, oxycodone, hydromorphone, or oxymorphone. Actually, it might be better tolerated by some people than opioids that make some people nauseous or have breathing difficulties. It's a more "speedy" rush than straight morphine high.
 
qwe said:
how easy would it be to create a *reasonably pure extract*, and would it be edible or snortable?
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I think nothing short of column chromatography would have a chance of getting whatever desomorphine is actually in there, out. It sounds like they're trying to do 3 synthetic steps in one, with reagents that are not ideal for any of those steps, and without even doing a CWE to get clean codeine to begin with...

Wouldn't they be better off just doing a CWE and using the codeine? I guess if you're an addict you couldn't take enough to really get high, and you'd probably seriously need antihistamines too, but it would at least alleviate the withdrawals safely.
 
I cant understand how having your body rot alive doesnt make you stop!? "Oh my right arm has rotten off, time to use the left one"

Just fucking insane.
 
phrozen said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr_rdhiUznA

Here's one I just found, there's a bunch more out there that are more graphic. Don't worry about spending time translating though, the images speak loud enough.
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Jesus H Christo! I'm no longer into opiates and stimulants.... and I try not to be preachy... but seriously.... WTF is wrong with those people? I was a step away from selling my body at my worst... but I NEVER re-used needles, shared anything, always cleaned my spoons, always filtrated everything... do what you want to do... but when you start getting gangrene... why don't these people just steal and pawn off whatever? And if I was a heroin dearer, I would lower my prices but apparently you have a LARGE customer base and they at least have enough money to purchase tons of codeine pills.... I'm sure you could easily match that.
 
Fucking hell. This is why chemistry should be left to chemists. Utterly terrible and sad. This is why knowledge, education, and harm reduction need to be spread around the world rather than suppressed.
 
yucatanboy2 said:
Fucking hell. This is why chemistry should be left to chemists. Utterly terrible and sad. This is why knowledge, education, and harm reduction need to be spread around the world rather than suppressed.
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Sadly I think knowledge and education will always be suppressed if it's about an activity which is considered 'illegal' - IMO though if we still think 'just say no' and 'don't do it' work then we really are in trouble...

Personally I'd sooner smack was cheaply, legally and readily available about the place than this Krokadil shit since no matter what happened I honestly can't see it being as bad as what we're seeing right now.
 
Ive seen some bad videos but those where just fucked. Why not just buy the codeine pills and do a extraction? I know it's not much of a opiate but it will keep sickness at bay and it won't make your limbs rot off. I thought homebake heroin sounded dirty but this stuff is a million times worse and then some.

If ever there was a argument for making opiates legal this would be it in my opinion.
 
Krokodil: the drug that eats junkies

Oleg glances furtively around him and, confident that nobody is watching, slips inside the entrance to a decaying Soviet-era block of flats, where Sasha is waiting for him. Ensconced in the dingy kitchen of one of the apartments, they empty the contents of a blue carrier bag that Oleg has brought with him – painkillers, iodine, lighter fluid, industrial cleaning oil, and an array of vials, syringes, and cooking implements.

Half an hour later, after much boiling, distilling, mixing and shaking, what remains is a caramel-coloured gunge held in the end of a syringe, and the acrid smell of burnt iodine in the air. Sasha fixes a dirty needle to the syringe and looks for a vein in his bruised forearm. After some time, he finds a suitable place, and hands the syringe to Oleg, telling him to inject the fluid. He closes his eyes, and takes the hit.

Russia has more heroin users than any other country in the world – up to two million, according to unofficial estimates. For most, their lot is a life of crime, stints in prison, probable contraction of HIV and hepatitis C, and an early death. As efforts to stem the flow of Afghan heroin into Russia bring some limited success, and the street price of the drug goes up, for those addicts who can't afford their next hit, an even more terrifying spectre has raised its head.

The home-made drug that Oleg and Sasha inject is known as krokodil, or "crocodile". It is desomorphine, a synthetic opiate many times more powerful than heroin that is created from a complex chain of mixing and chemical reactions, which the addicts perform from memory several times a day. While heroin costs from £20 to £60 per dose, desomorphine can be "cooked" from codeine-based headache pills that cost £2 per pack, and other household ingredients available cheaply from the markets.

It is a drug for the poor, and its effects are horrific. It was given its reptilian name because its poisonous ingredients quickly turn the skin scaly. Worse follows. Oleg and Sasha have not been using for long, but Oleg has rotting sores on the back of his neck.

"If you miss the vein, that's an abscess straight away," says Sasha. Essentially, they are injecting poison directly into their flesh. One of their friends, in a neighbouring apartment block, is further down the line.


full: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...iuyhwbY5AriReZCTtOjFBnuUgZDZD&expires_in=4220
 
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The solution, to many, is obvious: ban the sale of codeine tablets, or at least make them prescription-only.
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What the hell kind of a solution would that be!? So they have to go through horrible withdrawals, or steal a lot to buy really expensive heroin? Are people really this retarded?

I guess the withdrawal is so bad because of all the tissue damage caused by the impurities, once the analgesia is gone you start to feel it, amplified by the actual drug withdrawal symptoms.
 
ugh, my knees and hands are weak now. what the fuck man.

i wonder if they feel pain from that or its just totally dead now. it sure as fuck looks painful. i wonder how many of them get covered in flies or maggots with open wounds like that
 
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