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Christians and Aliens

Journyman16 said:
How weird is that - not only has not a single person bothered to post on topic, now you are addressing people who have never posted in here at all...

On a brighter note (for me) it is giving a very nice definition of who is what kind of person. Fascinating what peopl reveal about themselves online isn't it?

And yes, I know most of you will jump on this to castigate me yet again but truly, pause, wipe the dribble from your mouth and go back and look at the posts. I provide reasoned and rational responses and get nothing but abuse and lectures in return - who actually has the problem here? With weeks of personal attacks I respond (mostly) with rational posts while most of you provide proof of troll-hood.

So many effwits, so few bullets.
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Dude, get over yourself. My reference to our brother, Methamaniac, was a joke for foreverafter. I'm not exactly sure how you have misinterpreted this so wildly as to actually think I was talking to you, but the truth is something much less you-based ;).

Did you not just personally attack someone as well?

Journeyman said:
post on topic
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Stop talking about climate change everywhere too.

Something I see you do constantly is make vast generalisations where you seem to bunch disparate people together ('most of you', 'AGW crowd', etc) and then antagonise. You create an enemy and then go to war. You started this from day one, adversarial interactions which simply spawn more adversarial interaction. Don't try and distance yourself from the arguments you flat out join in and reinforce.

I barely agree with anything anyone says so please show me the courtesy of treating me like an individual. And all the rest of the mindless horde...:\
 
Journeyman, another thing.

You only joined this board one month ago and most likely haven't registered on hardly anyone's radar yet. Do you know how many posts are made on this forum everyday? It's like throwing a pebble into a waterfall.

But for some reason you seem to be on a mission to control and conquer the board and be the centre of everyone's attention. It doesn't really work like that, people mostly just care about the ideas you write about at any given time. There are far too many posters here to take notice of many handles or form some sort of relationship with them.

It's not like people wake up in the morning thinking "I wonder what Journeyman has been posting now".

Try to think about something meaningful to say instead, the social aspect doesn't really matter.
 
Well Journeyman,
What are going to do about this. It seems that you simply have to read other ideas different than yours and stop antagonizing.
I can´t really read your posts after 2 lines anymore + I believe you could show courtesy when tread others who disagree like Willow mentioned.
It´s time already to have that realized. Debates are only interesting when they are interesting, when you can really have a voice an and accepted option. You can not just through things and expect everyone to agree with you regardless and become your enemy in your view. Shouldn´t be like that at all.
 
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Yeah... except this was a thread about whether the possibility of aliens would have an effect on the extant religious paradigm of the western world.

Not one single person addressed the topic and it began with a couple of self-professed non-Christians telling me I should not talk about Christians because I wasn't one - given they regularly post about Christianity and the bible it seems a little hypocritical, don't you think? I mean come on, seriously? The first respondent spend all his time telling people what the bible is about and how his version of it is the only truth...

The supposed attempt to engage had nothing to do with the topic but instead lectured about how I had things wrong about the bible and the link between Adam and Eve and the Christ - totally ignoring the fact that that link comes from both the bible AND almost every Christian on the planet.

Don't judge me by the trolls nor where they took this thread. Go back and read the original post and decide if you would like to contribute or not. For mine? ANYONE who grew up in a Christian world should find the topic interesting.

Instead it is just yet another thread the trolls managed to shut down because they prefer everyone doesn't think.
 
Journeyman said:
Instead it is just yet another thread the trolls managed to shut down because they prefer everyone doesn't think.
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Except its not like that at all. This is a public forum focusing on harm reduction. You cannot really control what people choose to talk about; you may start a thread, but you don't own the topic. If anything, the thread starter can always try and steer the topic back to the direction they intended it, but thats about it. The rest is up to the individuals who you seem to like pigeon-holing and raging against.

Really, any topic about christianity is going to be mildly controversial because a lot of people here are either ambivalent or opposed to it. Its the natural demographic of a board dedicated to illegal things. I've never seen a thread about christianity that doesn't end up on a similar tangent.

Lead by example dude :)
 
I never told you not to discuss Christianity, because you aren't Christian... and I don't think Ninae did, either. You wanted to discuss how stupid and ill-conceived literal interpretations of Christianity are. Rather than doing that, which is antagonistic towards Christians, I attempted to engage on various aspects of the topic. What's the point on focusing your energy on disproving and mocking Christianity? It has more than enough people with agendas, on and off the internet, taking pot shots at it. And, like I said, it's an easy target in the first place... especially if you're pointing out "holes" in literalism. (What does this achieve, anyway: they're kind of obvious, don't you think?)

I'm tired of people mocking Christianity and then mocking Christians for (eventually) getting upset.
Not because I'm Christian, or because I don't like people discussing Christianity.

I'm, honestly, not sure what kind of discussion you wanted to generate.

It seems like you wanted to start a group mocking session, where other atheistic anti-Christian members could get together and agree with you how stupid the Christian faith is and how stupid you'd have to be to believe in it. Either that or you wanted people to contribute to your absurd logical extension of literal interpretations of the OT/NT, which has the same result. I don't see how there's any room for Christians in this discussion, which is odd since it's (sort of) about Christianity.

There are certain subjects you need to be sensitive about.
Like it or not, Christianity is one of them.
Race is another one.
If you start a topic about racial issues, and you aren't sufficiently sensitive, it might get shut down or derailed.

Christians have grown so accustomed to abuse, that they - often - don't defend themselves.
I will defend Christians and their right to be treated with respect, regardless of whether or not I am Christian.
Like I said, earlier, I'm tired of how socially acceptable it has become to publicly shit on mainstream religion.
You can make the same point, while managing to composing yourself, without isolated and mocking Christians.
 
One thing I don't really get is where all these brain-washed Christians are.

I certainly don't know many personally, on the contrary, most I know are anti-Christian. It's what I generally expect, so I don't really understand all those who see themselves as special because of that (especially as there are so many of them). It's so easy to find faults with mainstream religion, anyway, it takes a lot more to find meaning in it.

Also, I can't exactly see much genuine Christian or religious influence in the Western world for the past decades. It's certainly given a very hard time and negative representation in the media, which influences most people's feelings. The only thing we really get is school lessons, if you even get that, and church, but no one really pays attention to that.

I really have to wonder at those who manage to grow up sincerely religious and stay that way, despite of all the contrary influence in our culture, it's just as much of an achievement as managing to free yourself from religious influence these days (maybe not 30-50 years ago but these days). I feel someone like that is more likely to be inherently religious in a way I can't imagine so I have respect for them. Of course there are some simple-minded people/followers, like there are everywhere else.

Anyway, the real point is this debate ("How can anyone intelligent be religious?" or "How can someone choose Christianity over science?") is so tired, old, and unnecessary. I almost never see anyone add anything new to it and it doesn't have to be seen as black and white anyway. And by now everyone has pretty much said what they have to say, or described how they feel about it, there's no real wa to go with it. Not everyone finds the topic so endlessly fascinating or just want to use it as a way to make themselves feel superior and start conflicts, etc.
 
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It's so easy to find faults with mainstream religion, anyway, it takes a lot more to find meaning in it... It's... given a very hard time and negative representation in the media, which influences most people's feelings.
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I don't really get is where all these brain-washed Christians are.
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+!

People have been brainwashed to hate God.
 
People in the Western word are really brain-washed just as much, or more, to reject God.

It's just sad how so many can't see that. It's like they can't imagine it can be just as bad to be influenced in the other direction, and is just as easy. Someone only needs to use a certain type of arguments and vocabulary.

I guess this stems from the 60s - 80s when Western culture was practically de-Christianised and "The Freedom of Religion" cause also meant a lot of religious influence was taken out of our culture. Then the two opposing camps of "rational scientific anti-religiousity" and "blind religious faith" was set up. But, really, there's not much independent thought involved either way.

It's just the two most mains stream ready-made choices someone else has prepared for you and there's no real difference between being a blind atheist and a blind believer.

I don't even understand why anyone feels it's worth identifying with or fighting for.
 
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Ninae said:
One thing I don't really get is where all these brain-washed Christians are.

I certainly don't know many personally, on the contrary, most I know are anti-Christian. It's what I generally expect, so I don't really understand all those who see themselves as special because of that (especially as there are so many of them). It's so easy to find faults with mainstream religion, anyway, it takes a lot more to find meaning in it.

Also, I can't exactly see much genuine Christian or religious influence in the Western world for the past decades. It's certainly given a very hard time and negative representation in the media, which influences most people's feelings. The only thing we really get is school lessons, if you even get that, and church, but no one really pays attention to that.

I really have to wonder at those who manage to grow up sincerely religious and stay that way, despite of all the contrary influence in our culture, it's just as much of an achievement as managing to free yourself from religious influence these days (maybe not 30-50 years ago but these days). I feel someone like that is more likely to be inherently religious in a way I can't imagine so I have respect for them. Of course there are some simple-minded people/followers, like there are everywhere else.

Anyway, the real point is this debate ("How can anyone intelligent be religious?" or "How can someone choose Christianity over science?") is so tired, old, and unnecessary. I almost never see anyone add anything new to it and it doesn't have to be seen as black and white anyway. And by now everyone has pretty much said what they have to say, or described how they feel about it, there's no real wa to go with it. Not everyone finds the topic so endlessly fascinating or just want to use it as a way to make themselves feel superior and start conflicts, etc.
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Great post!
 
ForEverAfter said:
I'm, honestly, not sure what kind of discussion you wanted to generate.
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Really? So me telling you what kind of discussion I was hoping for didn't actually clue you in?

Like it or not, Christianity is central to the western world. The Pope stood up and said Aliens could be encompassed within the ideaology of the Church. Now I know most Christians don't see Catholics as Christians but the implications of such an admission drive right to the heart of the dominant Religion of the West.

As far as I am concerned, those who see such a discussion as being an attack on Christianity or Chrisitans demonstrate motre issues than can be seen in the OP. There is no difference between discussing Aliens in relation to the Christ than there is discussing whether Job's story was reality or a fictional analogy of some kind - and you had no problem with that. Both are about the basics of the Religion - you personally seem to think the bible needs lots of interpretation and judgement about what is meant - for most of the past 2000 years you would have been burnt for such beliefs.

Is there a Christian explanation for how Aliens might be encompassed within the creeds? Apparently nobody is willing to talk about it - the implication is that it's a deal-breaker, and that's not MY implication, it is yours and the rest who chose to decide such a subject is verboten.

Personally I'd still like to have the conversation if the rest of you can leave your prejudices at the door and deal with the subject rationally.
 
What I'm saying is that there didn't seem to be much flexibility or room for discussion.
The questions you posed were pretty much rhetorical.

If you'd started a thread about Noah, saying:
How can they fit millions of species on a boat?
I would have responded by saying that the story isn't meant to be taken to such literal extremes.

There isn't much else to discuss.
 
Journeyman, you're getting funnier and funnier, but at least you make me laugh.

It's just that the subject you want to discuss (Christianity and Aliens) isn't really one of the most pressing issues for most. Especially here where there are probably very few real Christians, anyway. What The Pope may or may not have to say about it doesn't really change that.
 
Ninae said:
Journeyman, you're getting funnier and funnier, but at least you make me laugh.

It's just that the subject you want to discuss (Christianity and Aliens) isn't really one of the most pressing issues for most. Especially here where there are probably very few real Christians, anyway. What The Pope may or may not have to say about it doesn't really change that.
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This is only my 2nd post on your forum but something drew me like a moth to a flme. This thread is a divine intervention... Aliens, and christ... I hope you haven't seen this vid too many times but I think it will help...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ_BtZ-5O60
 
ForEverAfter said:
=

I'm tired of people mocking Christianity and then mocking Christians for (eventually) getting upset.
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Now who's the one repeating themselves? (Yes I'm aware the other post came first)

There are certain subjects you need to be sensitive about.
Like it or not, Christianity is one of them.
Race is another
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Pffft.. Christianity is a belief (system), a set of ideas.. If you make one idea a no-go for condemnation then you have to make all ideas a no-go too.. and then what? People can act as they please because their belief system allows them too.You are free to think what you want but I am free to mock it..

You can't compare religion and race in this context that's just.. stupid.


Christians have grown so accustomed to abuse, that they - often - don't defend themselves.
I will defend Christians and their right to be treated with respect, regardless of whether or not I am Christian.
Like I said, earlier, I'm tired of how socially acceptable it has become to publicly shit on mainstream religion.
You can make the same point, while managing to composing yourself, without isolated and mocking Christians.
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Urmm.. Where are you from?

Atheists mockery is aimed at the religion not the religious as far as I can tell.. the same cannot be said the other way round..

Atheists are the least trusted people in America. There are a handful of states in which you need to be religious to get a job in government and you've got no chance in getting into congress. Atheists are constantly bombarded with accusations of being the anti-christ, being immoral, being untrustworthy, being treated in a lot of places like a sub-class of culture.

In a lot of countries in the middle east it's even worse.

It's not a problem in England.. Everyone respects everyone else..
 
You really don't like it when people post information that threatens the world as you see it, do you?

What bait? You mean that valid response?
 
Ninae said:
It's just the two most mains stream ready-made choices someone else has prepared for you and there's no real difference between being a blind atheist and a blind believer.
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Come now Ninae, that is simply untrue. Atheism has looked at the evidence and the scanty facts and the physical improbability, and concluded that it is exceedingly unlikely that there is a god. It rejects superstition and pointless paranormal explanatory conjecture. Most religious people will understand those points but believe it overriden by their faith; which is fine IMO. A blind atheist has, at the very least, looked for the truth. The faithful do something quite different.

I'm not actually an atheist by the way. But I am ideologically opposed to christianity, judaism and islam.

I don't even understand why anyone feels it's worth identifying with or fighting for.
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If you mean atheism, I can offer you many many reasons to fight or deconstruct organised religion. One is that atheists are not going out and burning people alive in cages or stone women to death or fly planes into office blocks. The prime atheist wasn't nailed to a cross. I understand that this stuff has been said ad infinitum but they are true.

I don't know about you, but I'm thinking that religion is one of the worst things to happen to humanity.
 
If the Aliens are watching us from afar, what does that say about the Aliens. If these aliens are hyper advanced then they would be able to end world hunger and establish world peace. Why are they just watching, standing idly by?

If the Aleins of Nubera are from the Galaxy of Xandeous 8 then that would mean that they're animalistic.

They want what humans want.

If they want what we want, what are we to them?

The mythos is full of mikons and prelons, but our species is continuously adapting. We will soon grow up around the trestles.
 
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