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Christians and Aliens

Ah, my mistake. I thought the objection was to me in general. My apologies. :D See I thought this...
No, I'm not going to continue contributing. I'm not afraid of continuing, I'm just not enjoying engaging with you and I don't think we're getting anywhere.
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...meant you were going away from my threads, including this one.

Actually right from the beginning you started in on trying to negate my views about Adam and Eve, the Fall, punishment and all kinds of things. About the only attempt towards the topic was your bit about Aliens would have other stories, which is non sequitur anyway. Your posts are all pretty much off topic and include such strawman arguments as chicken and egg - something only you mention.

I've tried a number of times to redirect you towards the topic but you persist in trying to argue about the bible and my supposed lack of understanding. Oh... and my supposed shitting on Christianity.

I say again, the only justification I can see for your persistently avoiding the topic is you can see the results. I could be wrong in that you're a backsliding Christian who feels they might regain their faith if only they condemn enough unbelievers. You should stop trying if so - the Christians are NOT going to welcome back someone who thinks their bible isn't about reality but instead is a whole lot of misdirection and allegory. They believe the stuff you are dismissing.

So... back to the topic. What do Aliens do for the Christian story...? Or Islam or Judaism for that matter - the Christian story just happens to be the one with God's son delivering us into Grace by dying for our sins.
 
I discussed topics that you raised - Adam & Eve and the test, etc - because they are relevant to the discussion.
I've responded in great detail to most of the points that you've raised.

I've tried a number of times to redirect you towards the topic but you persist in trying to argue about the bible and my supposed lack of understanding.
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As I said before:

Your question (was) founded on misunderstanding.
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...

I say again, the only justification I can see for your persistently avoiding the topic is you can see the results.
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I'm not avoiding any topic.

I could be wrong in that you're a backsliding Christian who feels they might regain their faith if only they condemn enough unbelievers. You should stop trying if so - the Christians are NOT going to welcome back someone who thinks their bible isn't about reality but instead is a whole lot of misdirection and allegory. They believe the stuff you are dismissing.
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Not a Christian, never have been.
Nice try, though.

Your posts are all pretty much off topic and include such strawman arguments as chicken and egg - something only you mention.
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I was responding to your comment about whether or not man came from woman or woman came from man.
 
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Nope, you've nitpicked in detail about the initial conditions, imposing your particular opinion about them - which is NOT the opinion of Christians.

You have not commented on the topic at all except to say Aliens might have their own stories and that has almost zero (except for the word aliens) to do with the topic.

You've said you don't enjoy engaging with me so why don't you just go away or get on topic? To continue is trolling, plain and simple. This is NOT a topic to discuss the bible at all, nor to talk about your particular justifications for what's in it, it is, 'Given the Christian beliefs, what impact does the possibility of aliens have?' I've made that quite clear and your persistent derail attempts are in no way a 'contribution' to the topic.
 
This is NOT a topic to discuss the bible at all
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The title of the thread is "Christians and Aliens".
You referred repeatedly to both the New and Old Testament throughout your original post.

I'm not trying to derail your thread.
I disagreed with your parameters, and I attempted to explain/discuss the flaw in your argument.

If someone asks me: "Why is the sky green?" I'm going to say, "Hold on a second... Did you say green?"
 
There is no flaw. You seem to think the Christians don't believe in the Old Testament. You are picking at the basics as if I am somehow proposing a new thing that Christians believe in Adam and Eve and that they failed the test and got kicked out of the garden. If you want to talk about that, go start your own thread - I am sure you will get lots of Christians to debate over whether or not there was an Adam and Eve and whether Eve plucked the fruit.

It is not my problem you have your beliefs about Christians and the bible but this is not the place for you to explore them.

Again, and for the last time, that is not what this thread is about so get on topic or do as you promised and go away.
 
So... let's get back to the topic at hand. Let's leave out the preaching and leave out the nitpicking details based on personal interpretations of some weird view of the bible and how none of it is real because it's allegorical, analogies and from other sources - none of that is relevant anyway.

Let's try and deal with it like this - the Christian beliefs state Adam and Eve ate of the fruit and 'Fell' and were kicked out of the garden. Later, along came the Christ to deliver us back into grace and offer a path to salvation.

What do you think the possible presence of Aliens does to this situation? The Pope has stated that Aliens are encompassed within the scenario, but I cannot see how they could be anything but disruptive to how most Christians view their beliefs. In the first post I offer some thoughts - are they valid? Is there some way around the rather disturbing possibilities that they show?
 
The idea that is presented in the Christian and Jewish texts about the origins of Man seems to indicate that we 'fell' and the Christians maintain we had to be saved later on by a sacrifice. That story is one probably most of us got when we were growing up and it seems OK to most.

But assuming it to be true, the possibility of Alien life out there opens up a new view of things. It doesn't really matter if the Aliens are never-fell, also-fell, or were not tested, the view of who we are and what things are about changes markedly.

I posted some of my thoughts above - let's see if it is possible to have a discussion on the topic without lectures about personal views of the bible this time.

How might Aliens be seen? Is ALL life created by God or just humans? Do you think they would also have been created innocent and fallen through choosing the wrong option? Is it feasible that only we fell? That everyone falls and has to be redeemed?
 
ForEverAfter said:
You're trying to make it out like God is some sick sadistic pervert that sets innocent creatures up to suffer.

You don't understand God.
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This is such a common way to think when it's more like being dis-connected from God makes can make us sick sadistic perverts that make other creatures suffer. It can be a natural result of dis-connection from God. The self can be so overwhelmingly strong in you, you can't really consider anyone else, or see God.
 
Journyman16 said:
God is definitely not up to my standards
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This isn't possible. It only shows that you haven't (consciously) connected with God. God's standards are higher than anything you could imagine, or probably want.

One reason people turn away from God (or Christ) is that they feel his standards are too high and only limit their instinctual nature. It's a form of rebellion by the lower nature and not just an intellectual rebellion like many seem to think. Intellectual values don't really mean anything in comparison to having the freedom to follow all your instincive impulses, which is where the real drive is. Ideas are after all easy to make, it's much harder to disipline yourself to live in a certain way.

Taking drugs in any form is a rebellion against God because he knows it's ultimately not in your best interst and you weren't designed for that. Living unhealthy is a form of rebellion against God. Truly living a pure and holy life limits you severly as to what you can do in this world, or that is how most people feel, and most don't find it much fun.
 
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So... back to the questions instead of my personal beliefs or otherwise...

Anyone interested in actually discussing what the idea of Aliens means in light of the beliefs of the Christian and Catholic Church?
 
This is a bit of a crazy jump, as these two things don't normally go together, and I don't really see what can be gained from it?

Also, I think the Egyptian culture had more to do with aliens.

Though the Old Testament God might well be a kind of manipuating alien. It sure sounds like it. God would never say "You shall not have other gods than me" as that's a given and he has no reason to be jealous.
 
I'm not saying Christians ARE aliens, although for some I have met...

What I am wondering is how the Pope's recent acknowledgement that Aliens can be accommodated within the Church view can be acceptable. Because of what it does to the Chrisitan central theme.
 
But you fundamentally reject Christianity, as you have stated many times, and seem to want to enlighten people in that direction.

So why bring up Christian-based themes when you don't believe in it anyway? It's such a waste of time trying to think of new angles to diproove Christianity. One angle is enough, any more just tend to take away from your argument.

There are so many trying to argue that Jesus' teachings were wrong, that Jesus never existed, and that Jesus wasn't the son of God to support their view. When they run out of one argument they just go to the next. But it can't be all of these.
 
But you fundamentally reject Christianity, as you have stated many times, and seem to want to enlighten people in that direction.

So why bring up Christian-based themes when you don't believe in it anyway? It's such a waste of time
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+1,000,000
 
Just some random ideas.

Believers in aliens often describe various morphologies of these beings (the Grays, Reptilians, and of course humanoid). Seeing as the bible says we are created in Gods image, and we take that as literally our human form is a replica of Gods form, than our God is either only truly our God or the God of the humanoids. The others either were natural consequences of the Universe or had their own Creator. I do not think this destroys Christianity per se, as we still have a unique creator/God and all of the teachings of the holy books come after creation. Maybe this is the true meaning of the first commandment. Not dont believe in other Earthly Gods, they are all cultural adaptations of me. Just dont follow those other Gods if you ever learn of them through communication with aliens not of our kind.

Perhaps some did pass and fail the original sin test. I can imagine various histories of either scenario. Maybe those who passed didnt need a Christ or had a Christ who did not need to be killed for our sins but only to fully enlighten the people on the mysteries of the Universe. Perhaps some failed but reconciled with God without a Christ having to save them. And those who are like us, got a similar history to ours. I dont think this necessarily disproves Cbristianity or religion more generally, just shows there may be many paths to the same end.
 
Kittycat5 said:
Just some random ideas.

Believers in aliens often describe various morphologies of these beings (the Grays, Reptilians, and of course humanoid). Seeing as the bible says we are created in Gods image, and we take that as literally our human form is a replica of Gods form, than our God is either only truly our God or the God of the humanoids. The others either were natural consequences of the Universe or had their own Creator. I do not think this destroys Christianity per se, as we still have a unique creator/God and all of the teachings of the holy books come after creation. Maybe this is the true meaning of the first commandment. Not dont believe in other Earthly Gods, they are all cultural adaptations of me. Just dont follow those other Gods if you ever learn of them through communication with aliens not of our kind.

Perhaps some did pass and fail the original sin test. I can imagine various histories of either scenario. Maybe those who passed didnt need a Christ or had a Christ who did not need to be killed for our sins but only to fully enlighten the people on the mysteries of the Universe. Perhaps some failed but reconciled with God without a Christ having to save them. And those who are like us, got a similar history to ours. I dont think this necessarily disproves Cbristianity or religion more generally, just shows there may be many paths to the same end.
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Thank you for posting on topic. :D

I have to head out for a bit but will respond to the points you make when I get back...
 
Many people reject Islam - doesn't seem to bring comments that they should not talk about it. Perhaps some Christians are a bit precious about their beliefs?
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Um, Islamic people don't like being mocked either.
The effort that you put into mocking religion is revealing, IMO.
It's no different / less revealing than meth trying to disprove evolution.
Like Ninae said, when you finish with one angle you try another.
There's is no room for discussion, really.
You just want people to agree with you.

And, you're shooting fish in a barrel. It's boring.
Literally dissecting mythologies is too easy and it's meaningless.

Seeing as the bible says we are created in Gods image, and we take that as literally our human form is a replica of Gods form
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Who takes that literally?
While often anthropomorphized and depicted as humanoid, Christians don't actually believe that God is literally human or humanoid.
At least, I've never met any Christians that do.

...

If you want to discuss Christianity, why not make it a bit more challenging for yourself? This is like kids in a religious education class trying to trump their teacher, by flicking through the Bible until they find passages that are easy targets / prone to misinterpretation.

If you want to discuss religion, why refuse to understand it on every imaginable level?
It doesn't seem like you actually want to discuss Christianity. You want to disprove it.
And you're not doing a good job.

You don't want to discuss Christianity with Christians, anyway.
It seems like you just want establish a smug little anti-Christian club.
Otherwise why set such a mocking / disrespectful tone? (You catch more flies with honey.)
If you are truly interested in having a civil discussion about Christianity with Christians, you should approach it differently.
 
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Journyman16 said:
Many people reject Islam - doesn't seem to bring comments that they should not talk about it. Perhaps some Christians are a bit precious about their beliefs?
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It's not that. Besides, I'm not even Christian, I just believe in God/Christ.

But it's just frustrating to see someone's mind going around in circles like that. "I hate Christianity...bla, bla, bla...so I hate Christianity". Instead of using that time to learn or focus on something you can believe in. It won't get you anywhere aside from expressing your contempt for Christianity. And it won't get anyone else anywhere else, either.

Christianity is just the most obvious target in the Western world and the belief-system that gets on your nerves as a child/adolescent. Doesn't make it any worse than any of the other main religions, really. They all have their drawbacks and positives.

And if you can connect with God within you can do so within the frames of most religions. The religion isn't supposed to be your focus or internal truth. It's just there as a form of general guidance or spiritual support and you can choose to completely overlook it.

I just don't understand taking this perspective of "I don't care about your own personal view of God, I'm talking about the traditional biblical God" when you're completely set against that God. If you really wanted to learn about God you should welcome another perspective.
 
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