Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc: Religion

[rickolasnice]

^Science has a reputation of testing things over and over to see if they still stand true.

One persons experience maybe truth to them, fair enough.

 

[Tromps]

I don't get why you would even want to be an atheist. I mean what benefit is it to you? Say I'm wrong and you're right, ok, what do I lose? Nothing really and we will both get the same - nothingness. On the flip side, say I'm right and you're wrong, eternal life is looking pretty good for me and your possibly jeopardizing that for yourself. Really, how hard is it to simply have faith, even if you don't know? Just for the sake of your soul. It takes literally zero effort for one to simply believe in a higher power-God , contemplate the possibility of being judged for your wrongdoings and accept the possibility of life-after, zero effort, for the promises of Heaven and good things to come, it sounds like a pretty good deal, for not even having to do that much. Athiests do a better job defining who they are by what they are not, instead of what they are for.

Amen, I say to you, that he who hears my word, and believes in Him that sent me, has life everlasting; and shall not come into condemnation. (John 5:24)

 

[Illyria99]

On the flip side, say I'm right and you're wrong, eternal life is looking pretty good for me and your possibly jeopardizing that for yourself. Really, how hard is it to simply have faith, even if you don't know?

Eternal life? There's no such thing. When you're dead, you're dead. There's no Heaven, no hereafter. You'll just be rotting flesh in wormy Earth. No trumpets, no pearly gates.

Faith is for the weak-minded. There is no one watching over you...and no one is going to judge you for your "wrongdoings."

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." -- Aleister Crowley

 

[Tromps]

Eternal life? There's no such thing. When you're dead, you're dead. There's no Heaven, no hereafter. You'll just be rotting flesh in wormy Earth.

The way you say that with such certainty reeks of arrogance. I ask you how you can come up with such a conclusion. Who says this, you?

I can respect people who believe in karma - reincarnation, instead, perhaps, but to put such little value on your existence, makes me feel pity for you.

What do you believe we are here for? Do you honestly tell yourself this is all random and by some extreme chance you have a conscious awareness?

 

[alasdairm]

^ suggesting that, when we die that's it is, in a way, putting not 'such little value' but a huge amount of value on ones existence. simply put this is all we got so make the most of it.

just another perspective...

alasdair

 

[Illyria99]

The way you say that with such certainty reeks of arrogance. I ask you how you can come up with such a conclusion. Who says this, you?

I can respect people who believe in karma - reincarnation, instead, perhaps, but to put such little value on your existence, makes me feel pity for you.

What do you believe we are here for? Do you honestly tell yourself this is all random and by some extreme chance you have a conscious awareness?

Your fear of death is clouding your mind.

 

[Tromps]

I'll take that perspective alasdarim, but I have to ask you "simply put this is all we got so make the most of it." what does that even mean to you? If I asked my local atheist, to them it would probably mean, do all the drugs/drinking/partying/sex you want and whatever makes you 'feel good' must be good. If that's your definition of 'getting the most out of life' no thanks been there done that, I conned myself into thinking that selfish mentality for years and it didn't get me anywhere. If that's not what you meant, I would like to know how an atheist would interpret that statement "getting the most out of life."

Your fear of death is clouding your mind.

It has nothing to do with a fear of death. I was born for the glory of God, and I would embrace the opportunity to die for God's glory. I don't fear death, satan, or evil, the only one I fear is God Himself.

The only earthly thing I am afraid of, is people like this:

and people who want to take everyone else with them.

 

[Illyria99]

Getting the most out of life simply means enjoy yourself...don't let religious dogma ruin your short time on Earth. Because man's time is short, make no mistake about that.

Praying to God isn't going to save you. Flogging yourself with guilt is a waste of time. Get out there and fuck somebody. As often as possible. If it's a nun, bonus points.

 

[Tromps]

You're completely unreasonable aren't you.. I do enjoy myself learning about Christ and being a religious person, very much so. I guess that makes me a bad person? Enjoy myself more so now then all the drugs ever provided.

You don't have to worry about me being saved, God already saved me, I can guarantee if I was still heavy druggin and was still trying to live my way that I would be dead. God brings life to the dead, and hope to the hopeless if you haven't realized it yet. He doesn't intrude on your free-will and force you follow his rules like some supreme dictator that you paint Him to be. He's there to help people through their sufferings, most of which we bring onto ourselves with our own sin and fault, to heal and forgive.

Luckily for you and I he has Mercy on us. Even though you may not like it, I pray for all the unbelievers and that someday God may be revealed to them when they need Him most.

 

[Illyria99]

I enjoy myself learning about Santa Claus, and you enjoy yourself learning about Christ...so, both of us enjoy learning about fictional characters.

Common ground. Who would have thought it possible?

 

[Lab-Test Monkey]

Eternal life? There's no such thing. When you're dead, you're dead. There's no Heaven, no hereafter. You'll just be rotting flesh in wormy Earth. No trumpets, no pearly gates.

Faith is for the weak-minded. There is no one watching over you...and no one is going to judge you for your "wrongdoings."

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." -- Aleister Crowley

There is the possibility that you are both partly correct (or I'm incredibly wrong) per quotes above and below in that we are all part of the universe/supreme being.

Illyria99 - does not distinguish god from self, acknowledges that death will be a end to human experience
Tromps - distinguishes god from self but states that the self has free will, acknowledges that death will be a end to human experience

As you cannot know for sure what happens when you die than you choose an option based on knowledge/faith at that point in your life, I personally don't stress about it ever now as whether I become part of god/all/nothing/universe or not when I die, I will have utter peace. I value my single life, reincarnation would be handy but it would seem like a single life as I could not have knowledge of past or future lives.

You/our/gods decisions and your/our/gods truth are always susceptible to the imperfection that manifests in all humans.

God brings life to the dead, and hope to the hopeless if you haven't realized it yet. He doesn't intrude on your free-will and force you follow his rules like some supreme dictator that you paint Him to be. He's there to help people through their sufferings, most of which we bring onto ourselves with our own sin and fault, to heal and forgive.

Luckily for you and I he has Mercy on us. Even though you may not like it, I pray for all the unbelievers and that someday God may be revealed to them when they need Him most.

 

[Raasyvibe]

I don't get why you would even want to be an atheist. I mean what benefit is it to you? Say I'm wrong and you're right, ok, what do I lose? Nothing really and we will both get the same - nothingness. On the flip side, say I'm right and you're wrong, eternal life is looking pretty good for me and your possibly jeopardizing that for yourself. Really, how hard is it to simply have faith, even if you don't know? Just for the sake of your soul.

C'mon be fair. If ones honest conclusion is that there is no God we should respect that. For all you know atheism may just be a stage of someones spiritual progression. Sometimes you have to be in one place, to find another.

You don't turn to atheism for self-benefit, you turn to atheism because your experience of life has put you there.

Eternal life? There's no such thing. When you're dead, you're dead. There's no Heaven, no hereafter. You'll just be rotting flesh in wormy Earth. No trumpets, no pearly gates.

Faith is for the weak-minded. There is no one watching over you...and no one is going to judge you for your "wrongdoings."

This is pure arrogance to state your opinion like it is fact.

I respect this is your perception of the life you've experienced. But others perception on life is different. Utter foolishness to think you know better.

Getting the most out of life simply means enjoy yourself...don't let religious dogma ruin your short time on Earth. Because man's time is short, make no mistake about that

Your "take what you can while you're here" attitude may make sense to you, but a lot of people want to find some meaning from their lives and progress, and religion becomes a great avenue for this desire. It's not a dogma to "ruin your time" how you suggest at all, you misunderstand what Christiannity is about.

I have spoken to MANY MANY christians, trust me. A religious experience (especially in the sense of christianity) would never have happened if you had no knowledge of religion / christianity. It's a mind trick. It all happens within the brain. The brain is VERY powerful.. after all.. It has created many many Gods and many many religions.. hundreds of pages books an all. You have to admit that.. seeing as, even in your eyes, not every religion / god can be the true god / religion. Who are you to say that nobody has spoken to the Allah? Or Vishnu? Or thor?

Well it's a personal experience isn't it. Because you haven't had a religious experience, you're naturally going to assume it's some kind of mind trick.

 

[Illyria99]

This is pure arrogance to state your opinion like it is fact.

I respect this is your perception of the life you've experienced. But others perception on life is different. Utter foolishness to think you know better.

Your "take what you can while you're here" attitude may make sense to you, but a lot of people want to find some meaning from their lives and progress, and religion becomes a great avenue for this desire. It's not a dogma to "ruin your time" how you suggest at all, you misunderstand what Christiannity is about.

We're born, we mate, we die. It's only human arrogance that leads some to believe that we're more important than all other creatures on this planet.

Mayflies live for only two days, in which time they mate and die. However, unlike the mayfly, the religious zealots of the human race delude themselves into thinking that there must be something else. So, they create this massive fiction that we're the "beloved children" of a supernatural being...an unseen, powerful enity that watches over us.

This is beyond illogical...it simply boggles the mind.

 

[P A]

I'll take that perspective alasdarim, but I have to ask you "simply put this is all we got so make the most of it." what does that even mean to you? If I asked my local atheist, to them it would probably mean, do all the drugs/drinking/partying/sex you want and whatever makes you 'feel good' must be good. If that's your definition of 'getting the most out of life' no thanks been there done that, I conned myself into thinking that selfish mentality for years and it didn't get me anywhere.

I don't personally know a single person who sincerely believes that sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll make for a complete and fulfilling life experience. That's just a hyperbolic caricature cooked up by stuffy moralists and busybodies who are, in truth, far more interested in the lives other people than in their own 'spiritual' advancement. I'm an atheist, and I don't particularly care for having sex with strangers, I don't regularly take psychoactive drugs to excess, nor am I very fond of heavy metal. I also don't regularly engage in sodomy, commit murder, covet my neighbor's ass, my neighbor's wife's ass, or whatever else your commandments take issue with. I am by no means perfect, but at least I don't need a collection of Bronze Age manuscripts to inform my intuitive sense of morality.

I would like to know how an atheist would interpret that statement "getting the most out of life."

But this a trick question. No one can ever, even in principle, provide a truly satisfying answer to this query; indeed, it has plagued humanity for millennia. Furthermore, I would never presume to have such unsurpassed insight into nature of the human experience as to prescribe one set of life goals over any other. Implying that you are in possession of such insight is folly. Don't let Illyria99's flippancy fool you - in many (or most) essential details, the vast majority of atheists live similarly to the vast majority of Christians.

 

[panic in paradise]

I have spoken to MANY MANY christians, trust me. A religious experience (especially in the sense of christianity) would never have happened if you had no knowledge of religion / christianity. It's a mind trick. It all happens within the brain. The brain is VERY powerful.. after all.. It has created many many Gods and many many religions.. hundreds of pages books an all. You have to admit that.. seeing as, even in your eyes, not every religion / god can be the true god / religion. Who are you to say that nobody has spoken to the Allah? Or Vishnu? Or thor?

up until 2 years ago, i was an atheist, my first experience reading the Bible(Joshua), at age 6 i was so disgusted i carved it up with a butcher knife. i laughed and pointed at clergymen and women on the street(putting it lightly) my parents are atheist, and the only times i had been in a church was for my brothers baptism, and a friends moms funeral; ive have only been in a church several times since.

Sophia, is something i had never heard of, until knowing after one hell of a night, to look to find out who "Sophia" was. spirituality now, to me, is the most real thing. this world, to me, is the least existent because it only will exist in the blink of an eye compared to what is really goin on.

almost every sentence in the Bible is loaded with insight, it really sucks that it is so encrypted. but maybe you know what he says:

'he who has ears to hear the infinite, let him hear'
JC

 

[Psyduck]

Eternal life? There's no such thing. When you're dead, you're dead. There's no Heaven, no hereafter. You'll just be rotting flesh in wormy Earth. No trumpets, no pearly gates.

Faith is for the weak-minded.

I can see why religion makes little sense for people with average intelligence**. Religion, it seems, only makes sense for both the most weak and brilliant minds -- the "problem" with religion is, of course, everyone thinks he/she belongs to the latter group.


** I am not complementing you here.


The loudest and most extreme voices have most of the time very little to contribute in the discussion.

Common ground. Who would have thought it possible?

And this you seem to have in common with religious foundationalism. Congrats.

 

[Illyria99]

Sorry, I dozed off. What were you saying?

 

[casualuser]

It's rather simple really, most people that are religious have been force fed it from birth and by the time they reach a level of development to think for themselves(some never get this far) they make any number of excuses to avoid admitting they were wrong and some are just too arrogant to even listen to another side of the story. It wouldn't be such a big deal if society didn't regard religion with such respect but it's a great tool for control so people with or seeking power adopt it so they can say "hey I'm one of you because I believe in god too, don't worry about my millions of dollars even though you can't afford food, vote for me and I'll change that *wink wink*" The other believers can be explained by having a more feeling based thought process as opposed to rational based. At some point in their lives they feel something very strong that cannot be easily explained and without having a firm grounding in rationality they then immediately jump to the supernatural for an explanation. If all religions were more like Buddhism and less like totalitarianism I could tolerate it but unfortunately its almost always either you're with us or you're against us for them so I must choose vehemently against.

 

[Illyria99]

It's rather simple really, most people that are religious have been force fed it from birth and by the time they reach a level of development to think for themselves(some never get this far) they make any number of excuses to avoid admitting they were wrong and some are just too arrogant to even listen to another side of the story. It wouldn't be such a big deal if society didn't regard religion with such respect but it's a great tool for control so people with or seeking power adopt it so they can say "hey I'm one of you because I believe in god too, don't worry about my millions of dollars even though you can't afford food, vote for me and I'll change that *wink wink*" The other believers can be explained by having a more feeling based thought process as opposed to rational based. At some point in their lives they feel something very strong that cannot be easily explained and without having a firm grounding in rationality they then immediately jump to the supernatural for an explanation. If all religions were more like Buddhism and less like totalitarianism I could tolerate it but unfortunately its almost always either you're with us or you're against us for them so I must choose vehemently against.

This is brilliant, and the absolute truth. The main problem I have with the overly religious types is how they always insist that they're right. Not only that, but if you dare to disagree with their dogma, they turn into gibbering idiots...they shriek, they whinge, they say you're damned. Rather amusing in a pathetic way.

 

[Psyduck]

This is brilliant, and the absolute truth. The main problem I have with the overly religious types is how they always insist that they're right. Not only that, but if you dare to disagree with their dogma, they turn into gibbering idiots...they shriek, they whinge, they say you're damned. Rather amusing in a pathetic way.

Mmm, does anyone else see (mutatis mutandis) the irony here?