Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc: Religion

[MrNOYFB]

Nevermind, im not typing it agian. F*ck it

 

[panic in paradise]

^if you mean you began typing and were automatically logged out after 15 minutes, you should be able to go back to the text-box and click the button in the lower left corner called "restore content" or something like that.

 

[Tromps]

Nevermind, im not typing it agian. F*ck it

Yeah i hate that usually i copy n paste if i think its going to be long

 

[modern buddha]

What about people who have had a sex change? Are they sinning by marrying the opposite sex to the sex they are now?

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

^This might have some answers.


And not to be disrespectful to y'all true believers, while I like to use religion to codify my mysticism, this dogmatism is very disconcerting to me.

Marriage was intended to be a spiritual desire...

'Cause forcing a woman to marry her rapist is a spiritual thing, yet acting out one's normal, healthy, innate sexuality is unholy. You guys really thought this through, huh?

they seem to be teaching me the most forgiving approach to humanity that other religions such as Islam don't have

Please read about Judaism some time. And the Dharmic religions. Christian and Islamic eschatology is pretty damn harsh by comparison.

 

[Raasyvibe]

'Cause forcing a woman to marry her rapist is a spiritual thing, yet acting out one's normal, healthy, innate sexuality is unholy. You guys really thought this through, huh?

Sorry? Forcing a woman to marry a rapist? Doesn't sound to me like Gods will. as i said in my previous post:

Human corruption and misperception is rife through every religion, but the actual religion itself is there for good reasons.

And acting out natural impulses is fine? If a peadophile explained that to you would you be cool with it?

No. If our desires are harmful to other humans, they are best avoided... as they now become harmful to our spirituality.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Doesn't sound to me like Gods will

Deuteronomy chapter 22. It's not quite that cut and dry, but the point is that most Christians cherry pick portion's of the Pentateuch's moral rules that should apply to everyone. I find Mosaic Law to be a load of crap (only interesting as a cultural code, and what the Jews have managed to do with it in the Talmud), even paring it down to Noahide law for gentiles.

More broadly, I think given all the hate, despair and cruelty in the world, taking the time to get judgmental about the sex lives of consenting adults (and the great prejudice and suffering inflicted on innocents this has resulted in over the centuries, even if Vatican II swerves into a more tolerant approach) is doing the opposite of the great commandment to love.

If a peadophile explained that to you would you be cool with it?

False analogy.

(I'm kind of addressing tromps with some of this, but to you raas it's common for those of a Christian background [who know little about Judaism] to say the OT is cruel because they're taking the written law out of the context the oral law provides.)

 

[DOB]

I hate religions

 

[Lab-Test Monkey]

I hate religions

Well at least you are passionate about it!

I'm getting better more ambivalent about Religion each day.

 

[rickolasnice]

Great book to learn some morals from

 

[Raasyvibe]

Great book to learn some morals from

C'mon, it's not fair to quote from writing upto 3,000 years old and expect it to be suited for today. There has been many posts above answering your questions in regards to the old testament, which you seem to have ignored.

 

[Illyria99]

All of those "religious" books (the Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc) are works of fiction written by drunk old men from the past. It's all bullshit.

Organised religion = organised crime.

 

[rickolasnice]

C'mon, it's not fair to quote from writing upto 3,000 years old and expect it to be suited for today. There has been many posts above answering your questions in regards to the old testament, which you seem to have ignored.

What have i ignored? I cba to go through the thread again..

The Old Testament SHOULD be law to believers of it.. or has God come back again? Last time i checked that was 2013 years ago.. and that guy said the old testament still stands true.

 

[alasdairm]

C'mon, it's not fair to quote from writing upto 3,000 years old and expect it to be suited for today.

for me a big part of the problem is that the bible is, we are told, the infallible word of god but even to christians it's open to interpretation.

further, if you choose to interpret in such a way that it demonstrates the hypocrisy or inconsistency of christianity, then you're not interpreting it literally enough. if that doesn't fit, you're interpreting is too literally... how convenient.

alasdair

 

[Raasyvibe]

What have i ignored? I cba to go through the thread again..

I spent ages writing you a reply on P2, Tromps and Ninae came out with some very good stuff as well. You can't just whine about the OT, then ignore all the replies.

for me a big part of the problem is that the bible is, we are told, the infallible word of god but even to christians it's open to interpretation.

further, if you choose to interpret in such a way that it demonstrates the hypocrisy or inconsistency of christianity, then you're not interpreting it literally enough. if that doesn't fit, you're interpreting is too literally... how convenient.

alasdair

You're basing this on what? As far as I'm concerned you either draw some meaning from it or you don't.

Jesus was the best example of God, he was all about peace and love, disassociation from violence, reconciling with enemies... and it was man who tortured and killed him.

OT was mans depiction of God, Jesus was a real life example of God.

 

[alasdairm]

i'm not talking about christ. i'm talking about (so called) christians.

alasdair

 

[Lab-Test Monkey]

All of those "religious" books (the Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc) are works of fiction written by drunk old men from the past. It's all bullshit.

Would it change you opinion of these books if they discovered that they were written by an ancient dynasty of weed smoking women?

i'm not talking about christ. i'm talking about (so called) christians.

Perhaps the Christian (and all other religions that force compliance to their faith only and seek to abolish others) are desirous of power of their fellow people as they feel that the "common person" cannot be trusted with self control or should serve the greater good of the religion at that persons expense.

Perhaps they are right and we will be judged in some human perspective(by God) come judgement day.

Perhaps these people need their faith as a means of strength in the world, perhaps they have forgotten that it is based on acceptance of self and others, they have forgotten that faith must be continually tested/grown/strengthened.

Perhaps they do not know that faith and knowledge are inseparable and our only means of guidance in the wilderness of the universe.

(I watched the Lincoln movie which was quite good and one of the lines was:
"A compass will point you true north. But it won’t show you the swamps between you and there. If you don’t avoid the swamps, what’s the use of knowing true north?")

If you believe Christians are wrong, how will you help them change their view(in kindness) if you do not understand them.

 

[Illyria99]

Jesus was the best example of God, he was all about peace and love, disassociation from violence, reconciling with enemies... and it was man who tortured and killed him.

There is no actual proof that Jesus ever existed.

 

[rickolasnice]

Sorry.. missed it.

Reading this post, it strikes me that the poster has a misunderstanding about Christiannity. Let me try to put you right on a couple of issues.




You write this as if it is fact. Top theologists and scholars of the world are still debating these issues. No-one has as yet conclusively proven the bible to be a waste of time, and there is answers to your qualms if you are willing to search for them.

What issues, exactly? Whether or not snakes eat mud or that bats are birds? Or whether or not the world COULD be flooded by rain? Or what?

The bible is subject to a lot of misunderstanding.

I think the writer did most of the misunderstanding.

Firstly, it is not a scientific journal and was never intended to be. If the bible stated the world was created 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years ago, the entire world would be christian, because we'd all know they'd have never known that 3,400 years ago.

Yeah.. k.. Don't see your point?

Then the whole purpose of finding God, choosing to ignore God would be obsolete. As it is in Gods will to give us a choice... the bible being a scientific journal wouldn't work would it? Therefore these stories are considered to be more symbolic than empirical. It is unlikely "The world being created in 7 days" is referring to precise 24 hour periods.

I really don't understand? Are you saying that God said the world was created a lot less earlier than it actually was so that people would choose whether or not to believe in him? (Unrelated) God created man. Gave men the power to decide / choose for themselves. Gave people no reason to believe in him. O...k.. ?

And a day is a word that has a definition.. Usually means the amount of time the earth takes to revolve on it's axis. And again.. God being all powerful.. why did it take ANY amount of time to do what he did? Why is any of this happening when he KNOWS what's going to happen? And so on and so on..

In the old Testament God was depicted as an evil tyrant. Atheists dwell on this madly...... (all the child abuse, war, murder, stoning, etc etc) but everyone seems to forget that in the new testament jesus taught against this "Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone", and preached about loving enemies. The general conception between Christians is that in the Old testament writers had a very primitive understanding of what god was like, and depicted him as a powerful tyrant... then in the new testament Jesus "clears it up".

Yeah.. this is one of the many contradictions within the bible. Jesus said himself that the old testament still stands true. Who's lying? God, Jesus or you?

You're "pretty sure"? Is that supposed to be conclusive?

I think by my wording I made it pretty clear that it's not conclusive.. The words 'pretty sure' kinda give it away.. The reason? I'm always willing to accept there could be a god.. the christian God though? No.. unless it's some cruel higher intelligent being that came down and masqueraded as a God.. then no..

I don't know if anyones had a personal chat with God, but many, many people have had religous experiences which have caused them to shed their former atheism/agnostism lives and become devout Christians. I am one of those people. And if you spoke with many more Christians, you'd probably here a lot more stories.

I have spoken to MANY MANY christians, trust me. A religious experience (especially in the sense of christianity) would never have happened if you had no knowledge of religion / christianity. It's a mind trick. It all happens within the brain. The brain is VERY powerful.. after all.. It has created many many Gods and many many religions.. hundreds of pages books an all. You have to admit that.. seeing as, even in your eyes, not every religion / god can be the true god / religion. Who are you to say that nobody has spoken to the Allah? Or Vishnu? Or thor?

I never read a page in the bible, I saw it as a big waste of time... until I had a religious experience, at which point i thought it would be sensible to take a read.


It's not so simple. Anyone can say "I repent", that won't get you to heaven. But to face up to your wrongdoings and embrace the remorse is something totally different. And something a lot of people aren't willing to do.

That depends on which church you go to.

Yes I believe homesexual desires are wrong and perverse. But if a person doesn't realise this, or they've been manipulated somewhat, can they be blamed?

Why are they wrong and peverse?

tbh most heterosexual relationships these days are no less sinful than homosexual relationships.

You can't blaim someone for developing an attraction. But you can blaim someone for recognising it's wrong, and choosing to ignore God and pursue it.

What if you don't realise it's wrong. What makes it wrong? A christian marrying an atheist? A christian marrying a muslim? Both things that your god said you should kill / enslave people for.

Whether you're a peadophile, rapist, pulling a hot girl in a club or lusting over a guy... the Christian belief is it's all peverse and wrong. Respect your brothers and sisters, remove pride, enmity and lust from these relationships you form with others. Conquer sexual desires. (easily said than done, i know)

So you don't think that natural instinct is sinful? This belief has come from a written book.. which you are saying yourself cannot be taken literally / is misunderstood. This is coming from a 'being' that has proven (if you believe in the bible) to be a wicked, cruel motherfucker.

Really?

 

[Lab-Test Monkey]

I have spoken to MANY MANY christians, trust me. A religious experience (especially in the sense of christianity) would never have happened if you had no knowledge of religion / christianity. It's a mind trick. It all happens within the brain. The brain is VERY powerful.. after all.. It has created many many Gods and many many religions.. hundreds of pages books an all. You have to admit that.. seeing as, even in your eyes, not every religion / god can be the true god / religion. Who are you to say that nobody has spoken to the Allah? Or Vishnu? Or thor?

Can we postulate on postulations to say:
(the experience is defined as that special aha moment of profundity

A primarily spiritually focused person at that time of experience will call it ego death(ego rebirth)

A primarily religiously focused person at that time of experience will call it a religious experience

An primarily worldly/scientific focused person at that time of experience might wonder if they are experiencing a mental disruption/mid life crisis

Could we then further say that a possible change in focus in later life(common more than once for the majority of people) as we age(change) will mean that the experience is re-designated with the appropriate name for that changed focus.

One thing we can certainly say is that the individual who has the experience is the most qualified to designate the experience being the only one who knows what it felt like firsthand.

The individual may find a sense of peace in understanding this.