Christianity & Islam: Are Either of them a Religion of Peace?

[SheWasLvL18]

Islam doesn't upset me.

I perceive it as a threat

lol

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

That's not a contradiction. Perceiving threats is a survival mechanism, being upset about threats is not.

 

[invegauser]

i should walk away from this one but i'm going to give you an orientation of perspective for the benefit of the doubt.

They're not all the same and Christianity is not the same as Zoroastrianism.

i said abraham religions btw (christianity, judaism and islamic). other then being one of the archetypes for most religions they have nothing to do with one another. that's like saying chinese were nazis before nazis came to be (swastika.... hello?!).

I agree with this, except not sure about polarized fence sitters? What do you mean by that?

as in bi-polar, too polarized, black and white. old school is i will smite you, new school is everyone needs a hug. no middle ground, grey area or moderation. at least muslims and jews have the internal fortitude to stand up for what they believe in. though there is a lesson about change for the better in the christian religion. don't forget most of the original message of those three religions has been lost due to human interference.

Bloody hippies.

i've been accused of a lot of things, stoner is closer to being a hippie but never been accused of being a hippy. kinda resent that but no animosity towards you, just don't like being called something i'm not. kinda leads to conversations like this one (among other things). what i meant when you quoted me in that piece of text is that the world is becoming a shittier place day by day, it helps to practice those things to keep from going under. plus good and/or nice people try to practice those things as well so if they aren't evil then it must be something worth trying.

Like I said, I think it's important to spread awareness regarding the violent nature of a religion that will soon account for a quarter of the population of the world. I love my family. I love life. It's not getting in the way of that any time soon. Talking about this stuff obviously upsets other people more than it does me. That's why I said in my first post to avoid this thread if you're going to get upset... Islam doesn't upset me. I'm concerned about it. I perceive it as a threat. But, I'm totally chill...

hence the part about taking care of yourself, no need to protect everyone or save the whole world. kinda sounds muslimish to me, "protect yourself from us cause we are letting you know we're advancing ahead of time". sounds christianish to me too. funny, they do have something in common.

hey, i don't judge. whatever get's you to sleep at night just like anyone else. for me, i lay down, put my head on a pillow and pass out in 15 minutes or less. no need to coddle myself to sleep cause i'm not that fortunate.

also those who run this site pretty much let you know how things go in their house. don't agree with it that's one thing. keep on it and that's a whole nother ball park.

I agree about right wingers but not about lefties... It is unfortunate that people like Milo Yiannopolous and Ben Shapiro make it so easy for people to dislike them. But, the left is increasingly disabled by political correctness... to the extent that it is now almost verging on mental illness.

ok, they are mentally ill just like the lefties so what's your point?! (<-- ?! means rhetorical). i don't side with groups, i use my brain and other gifts given to me through life in order to perceive, understand, complete the idea and get to the truth (again, i'm not as fortunate as the rest of you).

If you start a discussion with a right wing person about something - and they disagree - they're much less likely to get upset than a left wing person. They might be impatient or rude, but they will engage with ideas that challenge their right wing mentality more than people on the left IMO... .

ya, some people walk into a wall and just rub there head over it instead of getting angry, it happens. hence why safety helmets were invented, though i usually let the right know it's better to look up every once in awhile cause life is a beautiful and worthwhile thing (also helps to avoid the walls). yes, they are impatient and rude, hence why they are called the right. challenge to me in this case is survivalism, you don't want to go there with me, get's me all excited thinking about it and i kinda like the world the way it is.

Of course the vast majority of them - right or left - are not willing to change their mind. I've had many discussions with people who are impossible to convince. So, I can see why people here write me off. But, I genuinely do change my mind on a regular basis. My opinions are not dictated by the right

err... i have to break this one down in multiple sections to show you the light of truth here so i'll put it into two basic concepts. 1. that second sentence is not something you really want to be saying in public. 2. the whole quote reeks of hypocrisy, elitism and well, just plain mean man.

Take this discussion as an example of left vs right.

ok, where should i take it to?

So far nobody has done even a half-decent job of explaining how Islam is not significantly worse than Christianity and nobody has responded to the vast majority of my points, but about a dozen people have insulted me... I haven't insulted anyone. This is generally my experience with left wing people when trying to talk about Islam (and some other topics)... I'm not aware of an equivalent that right wing people are afraid of talking about. But, maybe there is one. I don't know.

wow, love you too and right back at ya on the failing to participate observation. no, you really haven't directly insulted anyone but aside from the constructive criticism people have given you on how you are handling yourself i would like to add that you have done something worse in a way... insinuating lack of capability, intelligence and not listening as well as a lot of defending yourself when no one is constantly attacking you.

it's not my experience with the lefties. though they are not perfect like anyone else and have their shortcomings. and even though i live in an area with too many of them and i am a lil tired of them in a way, i kinda like them so i think i'll keep them around for while. i'll keep the lefties here as long as i need to be here and as long as they will have me anyway.

i am, it's called reality and truth. ya see when a rightie decides they know something, they make up their mind on it and go all out usually. blinders! those who are righties here do this but with much more tact, keeping in mind we're all human, the spirit of this site, being civil and they like to have more fun than most righties. so i like to keep them around and hope they keep me around too.

now if you'll excuse me, i have to and want to really get back into this show before i throw my t.v. away. thank you and have a nice day.

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

i said abraham religions btw (christianity, judaism and islamic). other then being one of the archetypes for most religions they have nothing to do with one another.

I know. Somebody else said Zoroastrianism is basically Christianity and you said Abrahamic religions are the same, so between the two of you they are all the same. I was pointing out (while responding to the Abrahamic comment) that - while Abrahamic religions are different - there also isn't equality with Zoroastrianism.

as in bi-polar, too polarized, black and white. old school is i will smite you, new school is everyone needs a hug. no middle ground, grey area or moderation. at least muslims and jews have the internal fortitude to stand up for what they believe in. though there is a lesson about change for the better in the christian religion. don't forget most of the original message of those three religions has been lost due to human interference.

I didn't understand the fence sitting part of it. I know what polarised means... You're generalising a lot about Muslims, Jews and Christians. I'm not sure what you mean by "at least they have the internal fortitude to stand up for what they believe in". What do they believe in and what do Christians believe in that they aren't standing up for?

i've been accused of a lot of things, stoner is closer to being a hippie but never been accused of being a hippy. kinda resent that

Apologies. I was attempting to be light hearted. Unfortunately, I'm a robot so it is kind of difficult.

the world is becoming a shittier place day by day

The opposite is happening. But that is a different discussion.

funny, they do have something in common.

Sure, but they're not remotely the same.

i don't side with groups, i use my brain and other gifts given to me through life in order to perceive, understand, complete the idea and get to the truth (again, i'm not as fortunate as the rest of you).

Zing!

i kinda like the world the way it is.

The world that's becoming a shittier place by the day?

wow, love you too and right back at ya on the failing to participate observation.

I presented an argument as to why Christianity is worse than Islam. Nobody has presented a counter argument as to why it is not, nor has anyone responded to the facts / logic I presented in my argument... I don't mean any offence. Everyone is avoiding the topic while pretending like they're not. Many people have said they're the same. Two people have said Christianity is worse. But most people haven't even stated their opinion. And neither who said Christianity is worse provided a sensible explanation as to how this is so with all evidence pointing to the contrary.

This is another one of those situations that you think justifies being insulting. But, I'm not being insulting. I'm just saying what's happening here.

insinuating lack of capability, intelligence

When did I do that?

and not listening

For the third time: I apologise if I've missed anything but I've tried to respond to us much as possible. I don't have time to respond to everything. I assure you, I am listening... and if there's anything - in particular - that you think I've neglected to respond to, please let me know. Although the last time you did that, you said I hadn't responded to your question of what I don't like about Islam specifically which was not true.

as well as a lot of defending yourself when no one is constantly attacking you.

I've received an enormous amount of insulting and patronising comments in this thread. I've been called a bigot, a dick, a 14 year old girl... etc. The same logic (that what I'm doing is worse) is used to justify how people treat Trump supporters and how the left treats the right in general. It's not worse. Being downright insulting is obviously worse just like how Islam is obviously worse than Christianity... After a certain number of insults, perhaps I perceive the tone of this discussion as aggressive towards me and misinterpret some comments as insulting when they are not. I'm only human, after all. (Not really a robot.)

 

[Yourbaker]

I think blue is a deadly colour unlike green?

Can't we all just agree blue is bad?

With the sky full of blue shouldn't we be worried.?

Fear the blue.

This thread is really hilarious.

Is there anyone here that can say they don't think they've been trolled?

Since none of the opinions expressed that disagree with the op have been responded to by the op other then by passive aggressive comments about not being able to read etc. Does anyone feel like the op has responded to any of their replies with an open mind?

I do have to say I am impressed with the obvious well educated responses from so many blue lighters. No name calling and even a lot of patient time being taken to explain why passive aggressive responses are insulting.

It's nice to see this, a couple years ago this same thread would have been full of panicky fear mongering.

Ant you need real life experience with people, there are wonderful people everywhere and a lot of them were born in and grew up in areas that have been predominantly Muslim for generations, much like American Christianity up until this century. When you grow up surrounded by a belief you tend to accept it until you have real life experiences that alter your view. Coming here and finding you are the minority in your belief could be enough to help you re consider your views. Be open minded and consider you may just be wrong.

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

Since none of the opinions expressed that disagree with the op have been responded to

Absolute nonsense.

Ant you need real life experience with people, there are wonderful people everywhere and a lot of them were born in and grew up in areas that have been predominantly Muslim for generation

Like I've said repeatedly, I lived in an African country with a large Muslim population and as I've clarified repeatedly: obviously there are many great Muslim people. I've had Muslim friends. That doesn't mean I have to like Islam.

Coming here and finding you are the minority in your belief

I'm not in the minority, generally... I'm in the minority here. People are often uncomfortable talking about Islam and engaging with the nature of the religion - because it's tied to race and the reality is horrible... amputations, child sex, sex slaves and the mistreatment of women and homosexuals... people don't want to talk about it because they're afraid of being seen as racist. But, deep down, the vast majority of people - when they do engage with the topic - agree with me that it is an awful violent religion.

could be enough to help you re consider your views. Be open minded and consider you may just be wrong.

If I'm wrong, why hasn't anyone explained what I'm wrong about?

Why hasn't there been a single person in this thread that's attempted to historically contextualise Islam as less or equally violent as Christianity. I'm the only person who has done that... The responses I've gotten - many of which I have replied to - don't present any facts or logic. They just vaguely insist that religions are the same or that I'm misrepresenting Christianity because I'm biased. But the number - 25 million - isn't mine. It comes from historians. The higher end of the Christian death toll is 30 million. The low end is 10 million... Are the number of people killed by a religion irrelevant? Nobody has answered this question.

...

People can keep on posting off topic, if they like. But maybe someone should actually try and explain how Islam isn't obviously worse than Christianity... or, failing that, why it might be but we shouldn't talk about it.

I think blue is a deadly colour unlike green?

Can't we all just agree blue is bad?

With the sky full of blue shouldn't we be worried.?

Fear the blue.

This thread is really hilarious.

I think maybe you're assuming that I haven't presented an argument because you didn't bother to read the thread. I'm not just saying that Islam is worse without providing any reasoning. I've given a lot of reasons, and I've repeated them...

 

[invegauser]

@Yourbaker: my apologies, i was hoping the open dialogue would show good faith in effective communication and understanding in hopes of sharing and learning.

i'm not sure if blue is dangerous or fast (weird topic of the olympics) but i am confused on what keeps the blue water in the sky from crashing on us at any second.

if i'm not high or drunk i like to jam my finger in my nose and poke my brain so i don't get too focused on it. (i ate a lot of glue as a kid)

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

It's ironic that a philosophy forum, out of all other online forums and real world places, generates the least productive discussion about Islam...

I'm going to stop defending myself, because apparently that's part of thing that I'm doing that is causing people to insult me in the first place and because this is tiresome. If someone wants to actually discuss whether or not Islam is significantly more threatening a presence in the world as other religions, then please shoot me a PM when responding. I've lost faith in this ever turning into anything other than people insulting me while giving me unsolicited advice.

Happy for the thread to be closed, if that's a preferred route...

I don't think people were being 100% honest, here, for the record. The people who said Christianity is worse: would you rather live in a Christian country or an Islamic country? What if one religion dominated the entire world: would you rather it be Christianity - as it is today - or Islam? I think you know you'd rather not live in an Islamic country, right? And I don't think anybody who has contributed to this thread would be comfortable living in a world dictated by Mohammed. You can just tell yourself that I'm wrong, but seriously think about it... Islam is worse.

Like I said, if anyone wants to have an honest discussion (which I seriously doubt at this point), PM me or I probably won't see your response..

Have a nice day, everyone... Take it easy on the drugs.

 

[Yourbaker]

Ant you have proposed that the slaughter of different sects in India was the worst thing that could happen. 800 years ago. I proposed that the slaughter of the entire north and south American continents in the name of Christianity was much worse. I don't have numbers for you because I'm not stuck in the past worried about an event in history. I have looked at it and it's important that we don't let either of those events occur again.

Both those events were caused by outright greed and neither truly had anything to do with the truths found in either religion.

Getting your head caught in the past and missing the current world leaves you in a state of ptsd. We have all made many attempts to show you that you are judging people today based on events of hundreds of years ago done by a group that later became less volatile. America is still a pretty militaristic nation that does still oppress the less developed countries but are they still doing their killing in the name of the Christian God? Does it really matter?

When people feel the need to become violent and oppress others it is never right, you don't need a religion to see this, you just need to be a human to realize oppression of others for self gain is wrong. Religions are literally that. They have been nicely dressed in a story that says a bigger more powerful being who knows more than you is really in charge and we should not think for ourselves but follow in blind faith.

Spreading fear of others is something you are engaging in. I can not agree with you and I've read your posts where you repeatedly use a shotgun insult at the entire audience. We all don't read your posts according to your posts, we all don't know how to carefully consider the events from the past.

I don't feel any animosity toward you or to any of the religious groups we are discussing. All of them have mistakes in their past, all horrifying. Trying to judge people today based on events that others did hundreds of years ago isn't a good approach to living with people today.

Imagine if every mistake made by your ancestors was written down and you were punished for it by being ostracized by society. My ancestors were probably a barbarian horde at some point and they probably believed something insane that led them to commit atrocities, probably yours too. As society has gained knowledge and practiced education we have slowly lifted ourselves from the mistakes of the past. I think we are on the right track just very slowly.

Humanity is a single society and the more fear and hatred we have for each other the less chance of our survival. I will oppose any preaching fear of others based on events of dead people.

We all need to learn to get along, simply this. I will say it is certain there are people in every faith that are dangerous to the extreme for our society but the faith itself is not. Christians still keep the old testament attached to their current book and a lot of people get stuck on it thinking that somehow the creator made one group specialer then another. Chosen people theory is the big issue, when ever people think it's all about them they start to see all the people not like them as problems, if you give in to this line of thinking eventually you end at odds with others.


When I walk through some of the beautiful botanical gardens I've visited I can't help but see the similarity between humanity and plants. In each part of the world we used to be fundamentally the same race with similar beliefs, like flowers of a single kind, that had obviously been passed down from an original group that began in that area. Over time we traveled grew in size and spread ourselves and our beliefs across other areas, like plants that were no longer tended, humanity became a jungle. Imagine a garden left to nature for thousands of years, the beauty we see in symmetry as humans would be gone but life would abound still. This is our current world. We have created an economy that disadvantages less educated people and areas that don't have enough infrastructure, smarter people born in these areas realize they could do better in other places so they relocate, like grass seed blown by the wind. Today we have mixed ourselves beyond sorting.

We need all our focus to be on today and building for tomorrow. Looking into the past is a good way to see mistakes and successes that we can stay away from or work towards but the past isn't where we are going.

If the Muslim community today was united in their desire to return to the old ways of murdering people it would be an issue of great concern just like the Christian community and their murderous past. Every group has some evil backstory instead of fearing each other because of history lets remember the mistake and walk back from the practice of building fear of others.


Religion of any brand that declares it has an absolute truth for everyone to obey needs to also be agreeable by everyone. This requires religions to set aside their rules that they wish to apply to others and hold only rules they apply to themselves. Religion can not make rules for none adherents to follow, to stop this we created governments that have a greater authority given to them by a larger number of people. For society to go forward we need to not keep getting in each others way, spend less time on what others are doing and more time on what we are doing.

Those countries that have been able to achieve Government by the people need to be very careful because there is a slippery slope of turning your government into the same problem that the religions were previously. American policies toward less developed countries are starting to look as oppressive toward them as religions to none adherents. The previous USSR had issues with this as well, China oppresses some of it's neighbours. The only way we have out of this as humanity is to realize we are all one tribe.

Start practicing love for humanity and everything on this planet, stop seeding fear and look at what you personally can do to help.

There are no religions of peace. If you can cherry pick one sentence from Christianity "Love your neighbour as yourself" this works but find a Christian that thinks that's all there is to their religion. I have not studied the Quran enough to quote it but I'd place a bet there is a similar line in it as well.

I apologize if you felt beat up when you posted here by a group that appear to be defending Muslims. We really aren't we are defending people, every single one of us has a right to believe or imagine what we want but we don't have any right to inflict our belief or imagination on others without their consent. Humanity has a ways to go still. Just try not to lose sight of where we are headed by looking to long at where we came from.

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

I don't have numbers for you because I'm not stuck in the past worried about an event in history.

If you bothered to Google the numbers, you would know that you are wrong. You've posted like six times in this thread and your last post was about a dozen paragraphs, but you're not stuck in the past so you're not going to look at the data relevant to this discussion but you're going to take part in it anyway? You obviously don't want to know the truth. You're obviously in denial.

Prove me wrong and take ten minutes to look into it rather than ten minutes making another post without the relevant information required to have an informed opinion.

If the Muslim community today was united in their desire to return to the old ways of murdering people

The Muslim church literally puts out death notices against people, inciting believers in Allah to kill these people if they encounter them... There are no old ways. It is currently an evil religion/dictatorship. It pretty much always has been... The vast majority of Muslim countries are bad places to live. I'd happily live in one or two, maybe. But the vast, vast majority of them unfortunately treat their citizens badly. There are barbaric violent punishments for crimes, dictated by the Qur'an, and women (and homosexuals) are mistreated as dictated by the Qur'an.

I'm not seeding fear. You didn't comprehend what I wrote. You're yet another person refusing to engage properly with my argument. It wasn't 800 years ago. It was a holocaust that occurred for 800 years. The Indian holocaust, alone, has three times the death toll of Christianity over two millennia... The colonization of North America was a horrible genocide, but it wasn't done in the name of Christ. It was a product of colonisation. It didn't go on for 8 centuries, and it isn't comparable to the Indian holocaust (which is something you're obviously not aware of)... and I addressed the attempted colonization of South America. Are you comparing the Spanish Inquisition in which maybe 50,000 people were killed... to the longest and most brutal period of genocide the world has ever known which killed over 80,000,000 people?

Being a holocaust denier or an Indian holocaust denier doesn't mean you don't have PTSD. Ignoring history and not learning from the past is a mistake. It is downright insulting to Indian people to insist that what happened to them wasn't as bad as it actually was... in the same way it would be insulting to Jewish people to compare the Nazi holocaust to a significantly lesser event for no reason other than sympathy for Nazis (or, ironically, fear of engaging in anti German racism).

Spreading fear of others is something you are engaging in.

No, it isn't. You're engaged in spreading misinformation. It's offensive to compare the Indian holocaust to significantly lesser events for no reason. I don't know what it implies about your value system, regarding Indian people and South American people. But, it certainly isn't helpful to try and convince people of something that distorts history to that extent. Indian people deserve remembrance... People should be afraid of Islam, not Muslims. I'm talking about a religion, not about religious people. I fear for them.

I proposed that the slaughter of the entire north and south American continents in the name of Christianity was much worse.

It's obviously not worse. Look at the numbers. Look at the mass-rape condoned by the Islamic church. Maybe put forward an argument as to *why* it is worse rather than just stating that it is. Because otherwise (without any reasoning) it's just a blind convenience for you so you don't have to consider the possibility that Islam is worse... People throughout this thread have vaguely insisted that Christianity is worse because they have this image in their head. We are taught to feel guilty about Christianity and we're taught to not judge Islam (for fear of being politically incorrect) so there's this disconnect.

If you just look at the history books, it will become obvious that what I'm saying is true.

I'm not stuck in the past worried about an event in history.

This wasn't an event. It was eight centuries. More than half of the entire timeline of Islam... and, it isn't isolated. The entire timeline of Islam is violent, including modern Islam. I'm not worried about the past. I'm worried about the future, because it's a sensible reaction to the reality of the situation.

Trying to judge people today based on events that others did hundreds of years ago isn't a good approach to living with people today.

I'm not doing that... Who am I judging?

Imagine if every mistake made by your ancestors was written down and you were punished for it by being ostracized by society.

I'm not doing that... Who am I punishing?

If the Muslim community today was united in their desire to return to the old ways

Old ways? The religion is violent now. It has always been violent. Christianity has had short periods of extreme violence. Islam has pretty much always been extremely violent... Would you be happy living in an Islamic country? Because I seriously doubt it.

There are no religions of peace. If you can cherry pick one sentence from Christianity "Love your neighbour as yourself" this works but find a Christian that thinks that's all there is to their religion. I have not studied the Quran enough to quote it but I'd place a bet there is a similar line in it as well.

Again you haven't read what I wrote. So, I'm going to repeat myself again. But given the track record of this forum so far I kind of doubt you're going to read it this time either...

Jesus was a pacifist. It isn't cherry picking to select "love thy neighbour". Everything he said was peaceful. He was anti-racism. He didn't say anything against homosexuality. According to him, there are no chosen people... compare that with the Qur'an (which, as you've said, is a book you haven't read) and Mohammed constantly describes murdering people. He marries a little girl when he's an old man. He murders people's families and then takes the females (women and children) to rape and then sell on the slave market. I'm not cherry picking. It is a horrible book. It is much worse than the Old Testament, which (unlike the New Testament) is riddled with horrible verses. At least the OT is mostly non-violent. You have to cherry pick with Islam to make it seem like a non violent religion. You have to interpret things very carefully. Whereas the teachings of Buddha and Jesus are clearly pacifistic.

No offence, but you don't appear to be familiar with either text (the New Testament or the Qur'an) and you don't appear to have a very good understanding of the history of either religion... So, it's quite difficult to have a sensible comparative discussion... Again, if that's me being insulting: so be it.

...

I said I wasn't going to defend myself, but I'm being misrepresented here... Can people please - if they're going to respond - actually respond with some reasoning? Maybe if you haven't had an honest look at the history of Islam, educate yourself... and, similarly, if you're not at all familiar with the Qur'an have a look through it. Read interpretations from both sides. Watch some debates about Islam... Read a history book... Or, failing to do that, don't insist upon your own convenient version of history.

There are no religions of peace.

Like I said, I don't think Christianity qualifies but Buddhism does.

 

[Yourbaker]

Bye ant troll on old man but I hope I've jarred you loose of that stuck spot. Remember today is now and tomorrow is coming but yesterday isn't anything but old thoughts and deeds done by others now gone.

Yeah I read your posts. You just disagree with everyone repeatedly. Carry on.

 

[alasdairm]

^ while i think you are trying to make a case, it feels more like you want people to agree with you and you're getting frustrated that they don't (as opposed to a respectful discussion with different perspectives).

i find that you fall back on "it's obvious!" often e.g.

NSFW:

...it's quite obvious...

It's obviously worse.

...this obvious threat...

...just like how Islam is obviously worse than Christianity...

...explain how Islam isn't obviously worse than Christianity...

It's [christianity is] obviously not worse.

when, to many here, it's demonstrably not obvious.



alasdair

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

when, to many here, it's demonstrably not obvious.

Kindly demonstrate.

Bye ant

Have a good one, buddy. (Google is your friend.)

Yo

u just disagree with everyone repeatedly.

Everyone just disagrees with me repeatedly.

you want people to agree with you

Because it's insane not to agree, on account of the obviousness.

and you're getting frustrated that they don't

I'm frustrated at this point, because I'm wasting my time as a result of people not actually discussing the topic. Literally nobody is apparently willing to engage in a frank and honest discussion about Islam today and Islam historically. Every time I mention anything - and I've mentioned a lot over the course of this thread - people largely ignore it (because they know they're wrong) and resort to character assassination stuff which is typical when attempting to have this particular discussion with a left-wing crowd... but, as I've said a couple of times, this is the worst I've ever seen it. People spend a lot of time having discussions with people on the internet about how they don't want to have those discussions, which is a bit crazy because you can just do something else. Typically there are some people, even with left wing crowds, who will admit Islam is a horrible religion and far worse than Christianity. Bill Maher is pretty left and he hates Islam more than Christianity... I said, earlier, I'd be happy if people hated Islam as much as Christianity. If it was just okay to openly hate it. But, you always get called a bigot or an Islamophobe. People imply you're racist, as they have in this thread... But people openly hate on Christianity and there's no consequence. You're not racist. You're not a Christianophobe. This probably has something to do with the Islamic church issuing death notices to people in the media who criticise their so called prophet... Are you all so afraid of Islam? I don't know... I think maybe the extreme reaction here has more to do with the drugs than political orientation or fear... although psychedelics generate fear and turn people into extreme leftists. So probably a bit of both.

 

[alasdairm]

^ the numerous responses disagreeing with you demonstrate it.

alasdair

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

No, they don't.

Nobody has responded to the numbers.

Is 25 million across 2000 years, made up mostly of short bursts of extreme violence the same as 30 million over 1400 years that was consistently extreme violence the entire time? Apparently, it doesn't matter... Are there other factors that make up for the 275+ million difference between the death tolls? Nobody has presented any.

You're all just dancing around the topic, stating opinions with no factual or historical references and telling me I'm wrong.

 

[alasdairm]

^ i think that's poor-me victim b.s.

Because it's insane not to agree, on account of the obviousness.

q.e.d. you're not respectful of others' views.

your thread title is "Christianity & Islam: Are Either of them a Religion of Peace?" when what you really meant to write was "i despise islam. post in this thread if you agree."

i'm not afraid of islam. it saddens me greatly that some horrible things are done in its name. it saddens me greatly that some horrible things are done in the name of christianity too...

...although psychedelics generate fear and turn people into extreme leftists.

what on earth are you talking about? to me, that's a pretty worthless generalization but that's not my experience at all. i recognise that's just my experience.

alasdair

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

I don't think anyone really disagrees with me... I think if any of you (maybe there's one exception, I don't know) had to move to Saudi Arabia or Iran, for some reason, it would be a different story... But, it's far enough away to just ignore it...

Nobody has responded to me repeatedly asking - would you want to live in an Islamic state? Would you rather live in a random roll-the-dice Christian country in the world or a random Islamic country? If the world was dominated by one religion: which one would you rather it be? Look at Christianity today and Islam today: which is better? Not theoretically. Which do you prefer, and why?

The reason nobody responds to this is because the only people who would opt for Islam are already Islamic, whereas pretty much everybody else would opt for Christianity. This is a ridiculous discussion because everybody is lying to themselves... Nobody responds to the numbers and nobody responds to how women are treated generally in the majority of Islamic societies. Nobody responded to any of the verses I quoted. And nobody responds to their personal preference - if they had to chose - between an Islamic state and a world run by the modern Christian church.

A group of people failing to see something obvious is not proof that it is not obvious. Lots of people can see it. You guys can't. That doesn't mean anything.

what on earth are you talking about?

it saddens me greatly that some horrible things are done in its name. it saddens me greatly that some horrible things are done in the name of christianity too...

You're still dancing around it. Are they they same? Is Buddhism the same as Islam?

i think that's poor-me victim b.s.

Yet nobody has responded (to what I listed) and people continue to do what you're doing. They've been doing it the whole thread.

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

your thread title is "hristianity & Islam: Are Either of them a Religion of Peace?" when what you really meant to write was "i despise islam. post in this thread if you agree."

That's not fair, I don't think. Clearly I don't like Islam, but why should I? I have already admitted that the title of the thread wasn't perfect and clarified my intentions. But if I was to reword it, maybe something like "How is Islam not worse than Christianity?" would that make a difference? I don't think it's an inappropriate topic for a discussion any more than "How is Communism not worse than Capitalism?" yet if I made that thread, I imagine many people on this forum would happily agree that communism is indeed worse than capitalism (even though this is less obvious than Islam versus Christianity).

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Ben Affleck is a moron.

 

[Xorkoth]

Okay this is becoming ridiculous and unproductive. I'm closing it. And I hope to not have this same conversation again because it hurts my head and makes me sad.