Christianity & Islam: Are Either of them a Religion of Peace?

[|~~ANT~~|]

Islam is no worse than Christianity.

They're exactly, equally bad? How does that make any sense? What is your explanation for the historical data? Is there not a single person that can acknowledge which one is worse? Would it be worse if Hitler killed 100 million Jews? Because everybody here is acting like it's the same thing.

Or are you saying Christianity might be worse than Islam?

Extremists and power mongers have turned it into something bad in some areas today.

There was a holocaust in India that lasted eight centuries. That's half of the time Islam has existed. And it accounts for 20% of the death toll. There has rarely been a period without widespread bloodshed and the religion was created by a power monger / extremist... I don't think any of you have read what I wrote, nor do I think you guys are aware of the history of Islam.

This question is relevant: which religion - Islam or Christianity - lends itself to fundamentalism more? Which religion has inspired more violence? Which religion - in the modern world - is more progressive? Keep in mind that opinion polls conducted with Islamic migrants and Muslim communities in non-Muslim countries always have somewhat disturbing results.

 

[invegauser]

@zephyr: well said.

@ANT: you need to chill out and do what you ask of others.

zephyr was sharing her opinion and thoughts. it's quiet obvious from how you've interacted with others so far who do the same that you aren't listening to anyone. those who post here are more than welcome to share the info and if you want to judge and be a d**k about it that's fine, don't expect anyone to participate let a lone you might get perma banned.

your not looking to have your mind made up, you've made up your own mind already. if you want to change it then do so, don't bait and hook people.

if you can't be bothered to read and understand what others are saying then their posts will appear that way to you. let a lone your disrespecting them by asking the question and then writing off the answer as unacceptable.

your borderline trolling, border line gas lighting and definitely cherry picking so before i give you any more info to pilfer and use as you see fit somewhere else as well as let you feed off of me; you can either answer my question with a specific answer or you can treat others here with a lil more respect and listen to what they have to say. otherwise all your doing is making things worse for yourself, not getting anywhere and ticking people off.


what specifically do you not like about islam (in so few of words)?

and before you do, take a step back, relax and realize life is not made up of facts alone.

 

[Yourbaker]

Which religion are we putting the slaughter of the north American natives under and the South American natives as well? Do we include the huge kill off from diseases from the "charitable" blanket donations made by early British colonists?

Every religion has value in its teaching and horrible lies. Learn to sort them out and you'll see they are all the same.

If you want the most evil religion it's probably the belief in money. Money (or shortage of it) kills one person every second of everyday today. 1 million people a year starve to death while we plough fields under and build parking lots when farms can't make a living because the dying people didn't have money to buy the food.

Absolute belief is what makes religion. If you can rid yourself of it and look at the world as a resource and all life as connected flaws start to show up pretty fast. People who choose to be evil will be evil, don't care if they have any religion at all, and evil actions reap evil revenge. Round and round we go trying to be right when really we should just be trying to get along not win.

Why does being right seem so important when I've always learned more from my failures?

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

you need to chill out

I am chill.

it's quiet obvious from how you've interacted with others so far who do the same that you aren't listening to anyone... what specifically do you not like about islam (in so few of words)?

It's quite obvious you aren't listening to me... I'm not baiting anyone. It's absurd and disturbing that most people can't recognise (or are too afraid to admit) this obvious threat... Political correctness will be our downfall.

you can either answer my question

What's your question?

Which religion are we putting the slaughter of the north American natives under and the South American natives as well? Do we include the huge kill off from diseases from the "charitable" blanket donations made by early British colonists?

Do we have to blame a religion for everything?

What am I not listening to?
What am I not willing to change my mind about?
What do we actually disagree about?

if you want to judge and be a d**k about it that's fine

I'm not doing that, though... People are responding to a topic, without actually responding to the topic. They're telling me that why they don't need to respond, but they're responding (in order to do so). It's a bit silly. I didn't make any personal attacks. If you don't want to discuss the topic, then don't. I'm not going to pretend like people are engaging with the subject matter, when they're just repeating dogma.

If I get permanently banned for doing this, then I don't want to be a member of this forum. I don't care if anyone responds. I don't have a gun to your head. I'm just expressing my opinion. I'm not using foul language. I'm not insulting people. I don't see what the problem is... You're the one calling me names... So far, honestly, I've gotten a worse response than the comments section of Youtube videos. There are more trolls on Youtube, but there are is also more diversity in terms of opinions and political / religious orientations... and, most importantly, people (the non-trolls) are more likely - it seems - to engage in discussion with someone they who disagrees with them... Which, frankly, is a pretty sad state of affairs for a philosophy forum.

Nobody here - not a single person - can acknowledge that 300 million dead is worse than 25 million dead?

 

[alasdairm]

It's obviously worse.

you have to do better than that. it's subjective and people demonstrably disagree with you to some extent at least.

If your attitude is meh, then why contribute?

when you post inviting feedback, you're likely to get a spectrum of responses some of which are going to disagree with you. you should, at very least, respect the fact that you asked for input and got it.



alasdair

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

you have to do better than that.

I have done better. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over again. Go to page one of this discussion and read what I already wrote then be the first person to actually respond to it logically... I don't have to respect people responding to me who don't bother to read what I've written. But, thanks for the advice.

 

[alasdairm]

Nobody here - not a single person - can acknowledge that 300 million dead is worse than 25 million dead?

that's a rather narrow way of looking at a complex issue.

how do you even begin to measure the 'goodness' or 'badness' of something as abstract as 'a religion'. it surely can't be a purely quantitative measure anyway?

it's like asking which is worse - envy or lust?

alasdair

 

[PearlBoots]

Im sure this has been covered already, but Imo neither religion is "bad". Just the people, all throughout history. It's been perverted into the exact thing both religions are against. Greed/power hungry people are to blame. As for today's world and religion, I believe the true message is lost completely. (At least major organized religions).

Christianity for example: my brother detests most (If not all churches). His reasoning is that they no longer teach the Christian belief of "love", which truly is what Christianity is SUPPOSED to be about. In his perspective, nobody should ever stand up and say who is and who isn't getting into "heaven" or who's souls will be damned, because to do so is to put yourself in God's place. It is also prideful (one of the 7 deadly sins), along with all of these greatly decorated churches and mega churches. They take pride in their vanity. **There is more to it, just brushing over things** but I agree with him 100%. Jesus loved the sinners, the whores, the drunks, the homosexuals. He never once turned his back or turned his nose up to them. An as Christians, people are supposed to live by that. And they do not, for the most part.

As for Islam, I don't know enough to really say much. But I do know from talking with Muslim friends, some share similar views as my brother. And also, like Christianity and the seven deadly sins there is "sharia law". Which in truth, isn't a bad thing at all, when followed the way it's "supposed" to be. A lot of people confuse the huddud laws in the mix (the punishment for certain crimes). In which, it's widely seen as outdated firstly. Second, it can only be practiced in Islamic states. *and another contradiction, most Islamic states aren't truly following the teachings. (Like Christianity, it is perverted into something completely different). Groups like the Taliban and such have tried to enforce this without any grounds to do so, thus projecting a terrible image. (You know, the one that mainstream media eats up).


***I know i probably just sound like I'm rambling, im pretty exhausted so my sentence structure is extremely poor lol.

Tldr; religion isn't bad. Assholes desiring power are. And then a bunch of other more insignificant assholes regurgitate the hate.

*****also, apologies for just jumping in lol.

 

[Yourbaker]

Trolling with an Islamic spinner!

Sorry ant, When you understand religions they are identical, some have a different name for their diety.

A religion is just a group of people that kind of agree on a group of beliefs that really can't be proven. If you don't agree you can form your own religion and find followers, as long as you have freedom of religion in your country. As time passes adherents that don't like rice will scribble that in, eventually radical fundamentalists will try to blow up rice paddies (sp) and stop the abomination. Massive library burnings in the name of anti-rice will follow and due to the dark age huge rewrites will occur and suddenly only glutinous rice will be bad. Really whatever nonsense you want.

People can easily be self hypnotized into belief, it's just my opinion that's really what religions are. Try to wake yourself up from belief, take a look at where you are and who you are. Once you realize you can change your mind by using logical thought processes try looking at other people's view points and see how they feel about you.

If you are currently considering yourself an adherent to any one group you can't have an informative discussion without pushing your own agenda. Because many religions build a fear that you shouldn't consider others at all most adherents cower at the idea of seriously questioning their beliefs.

Try it.

 

[invegauser]

Nobody here - not a single person - can acknowledge that 300 million dead is worse than 25 million dead?

we don't have to, we know it is, almost every single person on the face of the earth does.

in an event where people die it is a sad and sick thing. when loss of life can be reduced it still is bad that life was lost but a good thing that more loss of life was prevented from happening. a silver lining.

how is one religion killing off 25 million people any better than another religion that killed off 300 million people?

p.s youtube is for anyone who chooses to get on the net, not everyone is interested in videos who gets on the net. just like this forum is located on a site for harm reduction. big difference. it's the focus of using said site. comparing this site to another is like comparing an ex to a current love interest, not the smoothest of choices.

 

[PearlBoots]

Mohammed was a warlord and a rapist. Whereas Jesus is a symbol of purity and self-sacrifice....

That's all perspective. Actually in most people's eyes at the time, Jesus was terrible. He challenged their government, for example.
He very well may have been a "terrorist" in their eyes. *If fact, he pretty much was. Roman emporers of the time referred to themselves as "gods". So, when they caught wind of the blasphemy, it wasn't hard to paint him as such.

***also, do you not realize how many other terrible people throughout the bible there are? Moses was a racist. People owned slaves and god allowed it. Polygamy was widely practiced. Daughter's were sold to the tabernacle whether they wanted to or not. So many more things.

If you're going to compare the two, don't cherry pick now.

 

[invegauser]

^ not to mention pedophilia wasn't a big deal in a lot of places back in the day. it wasn't until we started evolving our thought and social process that we realized diddling lil kids is bad mkay.

 

[PearlBoots]

^ not to mention pedophilia wasn't a big deal in a lot of places back in the day. it wasn't until we started evolving our thought and social process that we realized diddling lil kids is bad mkay.

You're not wrong. Not at all.

****
In truth, when it comes to Christianity and the U.S. I believe it holds us back. 99.9% of the time when ANYONE on both the left & the right are pushing for something, they do it in the name of God. And that bothers the shit out of me. Nobody can just be a good person/have their agendas without trying to manipulate the masses by throwing in God's name? Not to mention conservatives/ultra-conservatives. Majority use the Christian religion as a base for their political stances. I.e. abortion/same sex marriage/even the legalization of cannabis. We are NOT and never have been a "Christian nation". Throwing gods name in the pledge of allegiance, doesn't make it Christian. *and funny thing about that, if you've studied the bible, you'd know it's actually one of the seven deadly sins to pledge to a country. And that's not to get confused with "following the laws of the land". You have people like Trump for example who knows damn well what the "people" WANT to hear, so he spits it and it gets eaten up. Any sane person or true Christian would know however, he is no man of Christ.

 

[PearlBoots]

Basically in short about "which religion is more dangerous"
That's a very broad question with so many different factors. I believe people of all religions should be able to practice their religion without judgement. Unless those practices cause harm to others, of course. But this is just common sense I would think.

Islam is not dangerous too me here. Christianity however, isn't in my favor. If Muslims want to practice sharia law, they should be able to do so. There is nothing that would make me say we should get rid of Islam whatsoever.

 

[Kaden_Nite]

Im sure this has been covered already, but Imo neither religion is "bad". Just the people, all throughout history. It's been perverted into the exact thing both religions are against. Greed/power hungry people are to blame. As for today's world and religion, I believe the true message is lost completely. (At least major organized religions).

I've considered this; I agree that the fundamental ideologies have been augmented over time (certain passages removed, re-written, reinterpreted, probably a lot of stuff added too) to suit the beliefs & opinions of the various overseers throughout the ages.

As you say though, people have had those traits (greed, lust for power etc) throughout history. This is why I don't believe that religions, even in their beginnings, would have necessarily been about what we believe they 'should' be about - what we wish they were about.

Also, those ancient societies were tough as hell man, maybe some of these belief structures have actually been toned down & modernised to some degree?

 

[PearlBoots]

Also, those ancient societies were tough as hell man, maybe some of these belief structures have actually been toned down & modernised to some degree?

For sure, but for the benefit of who? I don't believe there is a soul out there that doesn't have a personal agenda of some sort. Unfortunately, it's the people in power/the elite who have the say in what changes and what does not.

 

[Kaden_Nite]

Hypothetical: There was a pope who liked to drink coca-infused wine (this is actually true). Say that he tears up a few pages of old scripture which stated that partying on weeknights is forbidden. Sure, he'd be acting in his own selfish, elitist interests, but I don't think his flock would be rushing to tape the pages back up

That's enough religion talk out of me.

 

[invegauser]

@PearlBoots: your post in response to mine... well said.

@Kaden_Nite: haha! true, true.

 

[PearlBoots]

I enjoy a good religious talk. Apparently, I REALLY do on adderall as well, lmao. But in all seriousness, I've been fortunate to have been exposed to a wide variety of religious views. My mother's side is jewish, but more so converting to messianic Judaism. My father, was/is an atheist but we attended Baptist church for many years because of my stepmother. My father's parents, are Jehovah's witnesses (who mind you, throughout adulthood I have learned they aren't as bad as people make them out to be). I also went to a Lutheran high school, and that was pretty weird
It was like watered down Catholicism. - that said, I do tend to feel confident in religious discussions. Which is a rarity for me, I don't feel I have that leverage on many other topics lol.

Anyways, I've always had an interest in learning the different perspectives, an I always enjoy hearing others. Whether I agree or not, I can still respect it. Religion is always going to be around, humans need that sense of "security" or purpose. Imo

 

[Xorkoth]

All I'm gonna say to you, Ant, is that you appear to be on a crusade here, and you're debating in worse faith than anyone else here who has offered an opinion. Respect is earned, not given. Have a good sit-down and think about how you're presenting yourself here in an honest manner.

And reply to the points raised in my post. Ironically, I saw a show about Islam now and Islam as it was supposed to be and has been in other periods of time. The current very oppressive attitude towards women is quite recent in the total timeline of Islam. Until a few hundred years ago they were very sexually open and free. Like many other ideologies, it has been corrupted by men in power. It's not always even religion that causes this. Japan, for example, is very repressive towards women and it has nothing to do with religion, it's just men in power using other means to secure it. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater... throw the sociopathic power mongers out with the bathwater. Islam is a beautiful religion at its core, as is Christianity, as are many others. Just because people have corrupted it doesn't mean the religion is bad. The way you go on about how terrible it is speaks of your own brand of fanaticism and feels very reactionary.