can homosexuality be a choice?

[bronson]

@ L2R: Yeah, that makes sense to me at the least, I'm not predisposed to the same thinking. I could feel love type emotions towards another guy perhaps, but no matter what I don't think there could ever be any sexual element to it. This is just me, and everyone is different to be sure.

I will say that my view with certainty is not skewed from homophobia though. One of my very best friends is gay, and I've spent many a nights in the same room with him, nothing odd about it to me. Sexual thoughts never crossed my mind, and I assume they never crossed his.

The whole thread is a bit bothersome to me, as is seems to be trying to fabricate answers to questions that can only be answered on an individual level. The stereotypes that manifest serve only to diminish sexual experience as a human right.

 

[L2R]

you just haven't met the right bloke *wink*

 

[panic in paradise]

you just haven't met the right bloke *wink*

/facepalm


there is a difference between some guy in prison who just wants to fuck, or dominate another, fulfill that primal sense to be the alpha in a relationship - and a male homosexual who exhibits feminine cognitive and behavioral traits, that is a chemical/hormonal response.

 

[Foreigner]

Although the debate on the origins of sexuality is interesting, I don't think it should be relevant to equal rights and what not. Even if homosexuality were a choice, it'd be a valid choice. I'm also of the opinion that sexuality is naturally more fluid, especially among men. In places like ancient Greece, same-sex relations between men were part of the normal socialization process, and many still ended up fulfilling their filial obligations later on by getting married to women and having families.

In traditional societies where homosexuality is not openly discussed, like in China, people are pressured into heterosexual marriage and nuclear families, but men are constantly having forrays on the side with other men. There is no real concept of "gay". People don't call themselves gay or straight. They simply do what is expected and then maybe have other pleasurable adventures with men OR women on the side.

After studying this for years and years, as well as living in foreign cultures, I think sexual activity is really layered and comes down to relational context. Personal pleasure, family and social expectations, cultural norms, level of openness and outness... in any one of these realms a person's sexuality may manifest differently. In the personal/private realm, people are doing all sorts of things including the so-called taboo; on the family level people are getting married to fulfill lineage obligations; on the cultural level taboos shape how open you can be about what it is you're into; laws govern how open you can be, etc.

When people look at JUST homosexuality as a concept, they are placing it in a vaccuum. They are also just looking at sex. Taboos against same-sex relations have consequences for even the so-called heterosexual. Men are not allowed to touch, to comfort one another, to engage in nurturing activities with one another, to express love and affection outside of the accepted ways, to be non-competitive, etc. In India there are men who hold hands walking down the street and they are not partners, they are affectionate friends.

Homosexuality is JUST about who you are having sex with. This entire debate should be about homo-relations. When you look at it in that context, sexual acts no longer have confining parameters. Someone who has sex with the same sex does not necessarily have to be gay, they could just be engaging in a social relationship.

The whole idea that people have to choose, and that choosing means a certain set of behaviours, is totally flawed. The western world and especially the United States need to get over this idea that there are "camps" for everything. People jump ship all the time, or are ignoring labels while simultaneously using those labels. It makes no sense.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Because you have twice the number of potential sexual partners and the ability to choose between the two I guess. It's not many people that can choose between the two sexes. Or I guess you can but it would be forced and against your true nature.

OK thanks for clarifying.

In my case it's a genetic link but this can be common. I know other people who are not heterosexual who have family members who are bisexual or gay.

I don't believe that everyone is somehow bisexual or innately sexually attracted to both genders.

I have gay male friends who have told me how when they were younger, closeted, or not sure of their sexuality they had sex with women but they've never had sexual attraction to women at all and their sexual experiences and even relationships with women just showed them how they are gay/homosexual men.

If everyone somehow was bisexual or innately sexually attracted to both genders society would be a lot different, there would be no reason at all for LGBT rights, same gender marriage and fighting for it, and bisexuality/homosexuality would not be seen as something "bad" by societies or cultures at all.

 

[L2R]

my assertion that we are all bi does not in any way negate the experiences of those who sincerely feel no attraction to either gender. i don't think the two idea are in conflict, but a missing factor which makes sense of it is the norms of society which we take for granted. it is what causes the equality debate to be anything other than obvious.

i take my controversial position of choice is possible from a perspective of questioning whether anyone can influence their own intuitive response to anything. actually take sexuality out of the question and apply it to any intuitive responses, thereby de-politicising the question, and you'll have less certain results. this regresses to a philosophical "is it only nature and nurture" or "do we actually have any autonomous will". i think we do, albeit minor and through great effort.

 

[panic in paradise]

Although the debate on the origins of sexuality is interesting, I don't think it should be relevant to equal rights and what not. Even if homosexuality were a choice, it'd be a valid choice. I'm also of the opinion that sexuality is naturally more fluid, especially among men. In places like ancient Greece, same-sex relations between men were part of the normal socialization process, and many still ended up fulfilling their filial obligations later on by getting married to women and having families.

In traditional societies where homosexuality is not openly discussed, like in China, people are pressured into heterosexual marriage and nuclear families, but men are constantly having forrays on the side with other men. There is no real concept of "gay". People don't call themselves gay or straight. They simply do what is expected and then maybe have other pleasurable adventures with men OR women on the side.

After studying this for years and years, as well as living in foreign cultures, I think sexual activity is really layered and comes down to relational context. Personal pleasure, family and social expectations, cultural norms, level of openness and outness... in any one of these realms a person's sexuality may manifest differently. In the personal/private realm, people are doing all sorts of things including the so-called taboo; on the family level people are getting married to fulfill lineage obligations; on the cultural level taboos shape how open you can be about what it is you're into; laws govern how open you can be, etc.

When people look at JUST homosexuality as a concept, they are placing it in a vaccuum. They are also just looking at sex. Taboos against same-sex relations have consequences for even the so-called heterosexual. Men are not allowed to touch, to comfort one another, to engage in nurturing activities with one another, to express love and affection outside of the accepted ways, to be non-competitive, etc. In India there are men who hold hands walking down the street and they are not partners, they are affectionate friends.

Homosexuality is JUST about who you are having sex with. This entire debate should be about homo-relations. When you look at it in that context, sexual acts no longer have confining parameters. Someone who has sex with the same sex does not necessarily have to be gay, they could just be engaging in a social relationship.

The whole idea that people have to choose, and that choosing means a certain set of behaviours, is totally flawed. The western world and especially the United States need to get over this idea that there are "camps" for everything. People jump ship all the time, or are ignoring labels while simultaneously using those labels. It makes no sense.

The highlighted portion is much different as an issue of social tolerance and spiritual acceptance. That is more of an energy exchange and means to experience the environment in a mutual way, or perhaps a method of healing spiritually, mentally, or physically. Many times while shaking someones hand, and neither lets go, there becomes a burst of energy, or deeper connection, from a lesser acknowledged although natural connection made. In my opinion this is why labeling the spiritual "super natural" is discrediting to our most natural state of being...

What you said about homosexuality being a taboo is critical to my point: if a homosexual mind set could be seen not as a choice, and not the cause of a personality difference, but as a chemical psychological response, there would be far less taboo and concern about sexual orientation, and in my opinion for the long-run more peace in the world.

Once again emotions dictate our intelligence more then most are aware of, and being a parent who believes their gay son is deviant sinner, or something, when they dont need to, would be big relief for everyone invloved.

I do not believe most men, for example, could force themselves to acquire a mostly feminine way of thinking and presenting themselves, there is a cognitive and psychological difference between men and women, which is mostly attributed to the brains hemispheric and hormonal response. And I'll have you know, personally, it is a very empowering feeling.

What ever the heck it is!

 

[RodJonse]

No.

 

[Squeaks]

everyone is bi. full straights are homophobic and straight gays are just heterophobes.


imho

No not everyone is bi my friend..... I am almost 35 years old and growing up in my teens and very young 20"s I slept with women in the begining then men and women now at almost 35 just men......since I have been with both sexes would that make me bi? I thought so for a very long time.... I didn't like this fact I have allways wanted to be just straight.... but my body and sexual attraction just doesnt seem to work that way.......the older I got the more time and nature told me who I was...... no longer could I get a hard-on and sleep with a woman....even a girl going down on me didnt get it to rise.... it was at that point of time I realized the "experimenting" stage was over and just had to accept that I am attracted to men and not women.... I do however think some women are still attractive but I tend to think "okay this girl is good looking" only because I feel this is what straight men look for.... a certain type per se... Do I still wish I was straight? hell yes... I could go out to dinner on a date and kiss in public or hold hands without fear of getting killed.... I wouldnt have to worry about thinking about the snide comments certain family members would say behind my back etc..... I have accepted who I am and no longer live in fear though...Out and proud so to speak.... Being happy....gay or straight is much better than trying to conform to what society thinks I should be... But as for it being a choice...... seriously... the only people who ask this question... and so many discussions about this... have been from straight people... Straight males more so...... can any 100% straight male out thier try to picture themselves with the tables turned.... for you to be with the same sex? I bet most of you couldnt even fathom the answer and when asked why most answers are its gross or its not natural but hardly any answers are you don't feel in any way sexually attracted to that..... well its the same for gay people.... so I just can't understand why the question allways has to be brought up(no offense to the poster here).... Believe me many people feel gay people are making statemnets by "being different" and deal with the backlash of this but does anyone gay or straight want to live or be treated like a sub-par-human being? I don't think anyone would want to live this way by CHOICE!

 

[Foreigner]

I do not believe most men, for example, could force themselves to acquire a mostly feminine way of thinking and presenting themselves, there is a cognitive and psychological difference between men and women, which is mostly attributed to the brains hemispheric and hormonal response. And I'll have you know, personally, it is a very empowering feeling.

I don't see masculine and feminine as sex-related factors. I prefer the eastern view that says we all have masculine and feminine in us. Some people may choose to nurture one side over the other but both are always present.

There are men who have more of a so-called feminine way of thinking who are heterosexual, same with "masculine" women. A person's gender is different from their sexuality. It's no more feminine to be gay than it is to be straight, depending on the guy you're talking about.

I agree with you totally about how society should just stop judging, and that way more people would be free. I am this person for a limited time and I want to explore that in whatever way feels right to me.

 

[L2R]

hi squeaks, long time no see.

however, you are entirely missing the point, but that's okay. it is to be expected. who one has slept with isn't directly relevant, as soon as you can see how, you will see where i am coming from.

don't wish change, my friend. you're perfect just the way you are. anyone who tells you different is either ignorant or misled.

 

[Squeaks]

No L2R(Hiyas Back by the way) I don't understand.... I wasnt making a point that it doesnt matter if its a girl or guy you slept with but the sexual attraction and chemistry behind said attraction. I however agree with you that sexuality isnt black and white there are tons of grey areas.... I try not to classify people but in my case its pretty clear cut.... It's not that I am trying to label myself or like you said comparing my sexuality like those who make political statements... I'm just going on my feelings and what turns me on now that Im not a spring chicken anymore... Many gay people get asked questions like "well if you have never slept with a woman how do you know you are truly gay etc etc.."... I for one can understand why most identify as gay since I have tried both.... I wouldnt classify strictly straight people as homphobes and strictly gay people heterophobes because like you said yourself sexuality isnt black and white.... The reason why I do classify myself as totally gay now is... its been over 13 years now for me to find any kind whatsoever sexual attraction for a woman... with all the new people you meet on a day to day basis... if I was hotwired to just not "classify" myself as gay I truly think I would feel some kind of spark when looking or interacting with the opposite sex... You also talk about the norms of society and what is isnt so to speak taboo... how we are brought up.... Thats hogwash.... growing up in Philadelphia which is very liberal and in center city philly with the whole "gayborhood" gay people are welcomed with open arms.... thier are gay furniture stores, gay owned book stores, gyms etc etc etc... If anything straight people should feel out of thier norm in this neighborhood.... Still in this neighborhood in my comfort zone as well as out of it"in the straight" world my sexual attraction doesnt change and I lived in philly for years before moving(to a small mining old people mining town where they are stuck in thier ways).

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I highly doubt 70 years ago anyone chose to live a life full of ridicule and public hatred...Yet there were still gay people..

 

[Lady Codone]

Oh man, there's a LOT of stupid in this thread.

As a lesbian, I can tell you it IS a choice to act on your attractions. But you don't choose who you're attracted to. None of us does. It's possible to deny your feelings and live a lie, but what's the point? Romantic love is central to the human experience. To deny oneself the joy (and pain) of courtship, falling in love, sex and all the rest is a waste of life.

Straight people could very well force themselves into homosexual relationships, but it would feel un-natural and downright repulsive at times...plus, think of the loneliness you'd feel whenever you saw someone of the opposite sex you found attractive. It would just remind you of all you're missing out on. That's how so-called "ex-gay" people feel all the time.

TL;DR--sexual orientation is not a choice, nor is it "learned". It's innate and, for some people, fluid. Life experiences like getting raped or abused by someone of a certain gender can have an influence for some people, but like most other traits sexuality is a combination of nature & nurture.

 

[Wolfmans_BrothEr]

it IS a choice to act on your attractions. But you don't choose who you're attracted to[/I.

I think this is pretty solid.

I'm straight but I can admit when a guy is attractive. I'm not checking them out nor am I attracted to them, but when I see someone like brad pitt I think damn, that's a good looking guy, I have some competition. I have no problem admitting that b.c I'm completely comfortable with my sexuality, despite what anyone would think

And I just wanna add that saying no homo has to be the dumbest and most insecure thing a guy can say. I had a friend the other day say "no homo, but mitt romneys got some crazy arm hair" and I'm thinking...wtf u really need to assert your sexual preference when talking about arm hair? What an idiot, anyone who says no homo is a fuckin retard

Damn I forgot I even made this thread, but it turned out to be pretty thought provoking

 

[llama112]

I would say it's definitely not a choice. I mean face it, who would CHOOSE to be gay? People get teased for "acting" gay. Gay marriage isn't even allowed in a lot of states. Gay people get bullied - just because they are gay. Some gay people get disowned by their own families. Is that really something you would CHOOSE to do?
A friend of mine just came out, about a year and a half ago, and his family has basically disowned him.
My uncle - he was married and he had three kids (my cousins). He's older than my parents (so late 50s I think), so gay marriage was definitely NOT allowed back then. Anyway, after he had three kids, he got divorced. He has been with the same man for 15+ years. They just got married a couple months ago. My grandmother (his mom) did not even attend the wedding. She is convinced they are roommates. She won't believe that they are actually together.
And a couple of my friends, they have been together for a while, and they just got engaged. The one guy is obviously gay, his parents know, are accepting (relatively) of it. But the other guy, his parents think he's gay, and they know he's seeing a guy but they just can't accept it. These two are ENGAGED but they can't tell both their families.

Would gay people really CHOOSE to be gay? No. Would these people choose to go through all these troubles? You can't help who you're attracted to.

 

[modern buddha]

As a woman who likes women, I'll reiterate what I've probably said before: I like women, but I don't HAVE to be with a woman. I suppose some who consider themselves to be "completely homosexual" might say "well, I can't be with a person of the opposite sex". We're all different. We all have different levels of tolerance.

 

[sconnie420]

Is being heterosexual a choice? Or being asexual? Of course not.. The choice comes when one is seeking a partner, whether it same or opposite sex..
Either way, I don't care.. Ill love ya(non sexual) gay, straight, sideways, blue, yellow, or green. Some of the best people in my life are gay

 

[Wyld 4 X]

But you don't choose who you're attracted to. None of us does. It's possible to deny your feelings and live a lie, but what's the point? Romantic love is central to the human experience. To deny oneself the joy (and pain) of courtship, falling in love, sex and all the rest is a waste of life.

/fin thread

 

[L2R]

what if...
1- a person you would naturally be inclined to be attracted to causes you some severe trauma and you form a fear from the association which you can either work to overcome or not. would that attraction remain? how so?
2- you spend a significant period of time with someone who you would normally not find attractive, and during this period you discover qualities and charms which you would have not otherwise found, thus opening your heart to considering that person, and therefore that kind of person, a potential interest. would you choose to impede in your heart being opened to the possibility on the principle or would you choose to not let labels limit you?

both choice and sexuality are far more complicated things than how most posters in this thread are taking them. they aren't simple light switches with two contrasting and opposing positions.