can homosexuality be a choice?

[silentcowboy]

squareroot, your starting to take this a little personally. Everybody has their own viewpoint on sexuality, and dont need you to tell us that homosexuality doesnt do any good for society. Have you ever thought about population control?

Ah! There's the rub!

Exactly what *IS* "sexuality's true nature"? The answer to that question will provide us with the framework needed to answer questions about which kinds of sexual activity are in accord with and good for the human person.

"sexuality's true nature" is "[n]one of anyone else's business"? Huh? REALLY? You can't mean that. The true nature of sexuality is of immense importance to all human beings. And, regarding one's sexual activity, well that too is of legitimate concern to others:

1) First, because there is almost always another person involved.
2) Second, because our sexuality is so intimately bound up with our personhood, any difficulties/aberrations in our sexuality are sure to spill over into our general, daily behavior and life, which is of concern to others.
3) Third - and most obviously, and most importantly - Just look at the male and female sexual organs. They tell us things. They tell us that they "fit together". They tell us that they have a larger purpose - to bring new life into the world, another human person. That alone tells us that our sexual behavior is definitely other peoples' business.

I'm not advocating for the extremist position that society somehow has to violate all sense of personal and couple privacy. But, to say that one's sexual activity is "none of anyone else's business" is just one more extremist position, only at the other end of the spectrum. (If you believe that one's sexual desires/behaviors are "none of anyone's business", may I assume that you are consistent in that thinking, and that you disapprove of the [public and very loud political] efforts to campaign for the legal redefinition of marriage, as that is forcing all the rest of us to become *VERY* aware of other peoples' sexual behaviors/desires?)

---

Ohhhhhhhh - Come on. Of course there is an objectively knowable "inherent legitimacy to heterosexuality that doesn't exist with homosexuality" - viz., heterosexuality by its nature brings children into the world and raises them, which fulfills the greatest natural drive of humans, and is the lifeblood of any healthy society. We know this from observing ourselves over all cultures for countless centuries. And, our common sense tells us that heterosexuality is crucial to society and its continued growth. That "inherent legitimcay" most certainly and obviouisly does not exist with homosexuality, as homosexualtiy, by its nature, cannot accomplish these same ends, and thus homosexuality *in and of itself*, cannot provide benefits to society that heterosexuality can.

 

[Voxide]

Excellent answer voxide, except I still disagree that people have a choice on whether or not to act on deviant thoughts. I also think a lot of them were 'formed' by being a typical adolescent (fads, rebellion, not knowing better, not being able to think for themselves, etc.) hence why it "seems" to be increasing the last 20 years. The internet can be blamed for fostering gay pride and all that hogwash that is out there hence popularizing it.

<snip>

Yeah I didn't mean to imply it like that.

The attraction is either genetic or acquired but of course acting on those feelings is up to the individual. One can be gay and not willingly engage in sodomy. I'm a firm believer that eventually it does get formed if someone is predisposed to it or socially outcasted enough. If you've had horrible relations with women/men all your life, sooner or later you'll just give up. I have personally watched this phenomenon happen. Sure, maybe the homosexual feelings were there since birth but society is a catalyst for the actions themselves.

As far as being labeled as gay itself, I wouldn't call it wrong, but it's definitely not something to be "proud" of.

 

[bronson]

And, No, they (male and female sexual organs) don't only tell me that they merely fit together - they tell me that they fit together *AND* that they fit together in order to bring a new person into the world. So, I guess I need you to tell me that is not very important.

What they are telling you is simply based on your perception of it, every person has their own perception and that's the beauty of life.

 

[J.Wallace]

Didn't read anything past the first post.

Who knows! I'd like to believe it's a choice, because we choose who to kiss, who to fuck, etc. However, I don't think it's a choice who you are attracted to, so is it really a choice if you can't control the attraction but can control if you take action? For example, I am straight but I find some men attraction. Not that I would kiss them or fuck them, though I do imagine kissing them it's just a thought and not something I'd actually do. I think your a liar if you say you've never thought of kissing another man, or what it'd be like. Does that makes me a homosexual just because I think it, or do I have to do it? Just a hypothetical question that makes you wonder.

 

[L2R]

Ah! There's the rub!

Exactly what *IS* "sexuality's true nature"? The answer to that question will provide us with the framework needed to answer questions about which kinds of sexual activity are in accord with and good for the human person.

How can anyone dictate what is sexually good for another? This is an entirely backwards way to assess the situation.

"sexuality's true nature" is "[n]one of anyone else's business"? Huh? REALLY? You can't mean that. The true nature of sexuality is of immense importance to all human beings. And, regarding one's sexual activity, well that too is of legitimate concern to others:

1) First, because there is almost always another person involved.

Rational and consenting adults can decide for themselves what they want to do. This has no impact on society at large and outside of each individual relationship, it certainly is of no one's concern.

2) Second, because our sexuality is so intimately bound up with our personhood, any difficulties/aberrations in our sexuality are sure to spill over into our general, daily behavior and life, which is of concern to others.

This is also backwards. You are, like bagochina, putting the blame of social problems on the "victims". If there are any social issues stemming from the sexuality of individuals, it is caused by the intolerance of others.

3) Third - and most obviously, and most importantly - Just look at the male and female sexual organs. They tell us things. They tell us that they "fit together". They tell us that they have a larger purpose - to bring new life into the world, another human person. That alone tells us that our sexual behavior is definitely other peoples' business.

Sex is more than just procreation. This point of yours holds no substance whatsoever. Most heterosexual sex is not done to create new life, it is done mostly for pleasure. there is nothing wrong or unnatural about this.

I'm not advocating for the extremist position that society somehow has to violate all sense of personal and couple privacy. But, to say that one's sexual activity is "none of anyone else's business" is just one more extremist position, only at the other end of the spectrum. (If you believe that one's sexual desires/behaviors are "none of anyone's business", may I assume that you are consistent in that thinking, and that you disapprove of the [public and very loud political] efforts to campaign for the legal redefinition of marriage, as that is forcing all the rest of us to become *VERY* aware of other peoples' sexual behaviors/desires?)

---

---

Again, this is backwards. I support equal marriage right precisely FOR the reason that sexuality is none of anyone else's business, not despite it.

Ohhhhhhhh - Come on. Of course there is an objectively knowable "inherent legitimacy to heterosexuality that doesn't exist with homosexuality" - viz., heterosexuality by its nature brings children into the world and raises them, which fulfills the greatest natural drive of humans, and is the lifeblood of any healthy society. We know this from observing ourselves over all cultures for countless centuries. And, our common sense tells us that heterosexuality is crucial to society and its continued growth. That "inherent legitimcay" most certainly and obviouisly does not exist with homosexuality, as homosexualtiy, by its nature, cannot accomplish these same ends, and thus homosexuality *in and of itself*, cannot provide benefits to society that heterosexuality can.

again, sex if far more than just procreation.

 

[AminoAcid]

I've worked at a gay bar and so met hundreds of gay people and it's beyond obvious homosexuality is not a choice. You either love cock or you don't. Sure some people "experiment", get high on ecsatcy and flip someone on the b-side, but beyond that I can't see someone deciding to join an overall persecuted group like that for fun.

The best reseach I've so far seen indicates that it's certain conditions in the mother's womb that leads to homosexuality. The whole "gay gene" thing doesn't really make sense, because evolution would've done away with it long ago because the gay people wouldn't be passing on their "gay allele" to the next generation, AND we also know full well that gay people can be born to families with absolutely no history of homosexuality in them.

Also what REALLY pisses me off is when Christian fundamentalists et. al. say "homosexuality is unnatural". Zoologists have known for over a century now that EVERY higher mammal has some percentage of their populations that is homosexual. Homosexuality is JUST as "natural" as heterosexuality. Just go and watch some bonobos for a day and you'll see. There are even gay dolphins

 

[bagochina]

Zoologists have known for over a century now that EVERY higher mammal has some percentage of their populations that is homosexual.

Yeah but they are ANIMALS, not human. Humans should be acting on higher standard [disciplined in controlling their mind and acting on/extinguishing thoughts].

 

[AminoAcid]

Yeah but they are ANIMALS, not human. Humans should be acting on higher standard [disciplined in controlling their mind and acting on/extinguishing thoughts].

We are animals dude and subject to the same biological and genetic laws as all of them. An animal is simply a multicellular eukaryotic organism in Kingdom Animalia.

 

[L2R]

^wow, i see now our conversation was entirely futile. stay wilfully ignorant all you like.

aminoacid, to say that sexuality can be a choice, it doesn't mean that homosexuality doesn't occur naturally on its own.

 

[bagochina]

Yeah but lots of things occur in nature that are frowned upon: cannibalism, rape, murder, etc.
Next thing you know your going to say that bestiality is natural and we should embrace it.
No thanks!

 

[L2R]

the sliding scale to bestiality argument is utterly fallacious.

 

[modern buddha]

Yeah but lots of things occur in nature that are frowned upon: cannibalism, rape, murder, etc.
Next thing you know your going to say that bestiality is natural and we should embrace it.
No thanks!

Nature doesn't frown on it. Nature ... embraces it? Hell, it happens. The animals don't care what they're having sex with. If they're horny, they're going to have sex. There is no thought involved when it comes to attraction.

 

[L2R]

i frown upon overripe fruit

 

[crooked_rain]

if you "are straight but choose to be gay", then you weren't straight to begin with. this question is absurd. if you're straight, do you think you could soberly make the decision to date the same sex starting tonight? go out on the town this evening and consciously tell yourself that you will only have eyes for those with the same parts as yourself. good luck.

 

[PantyRaid]

^ exactly. Also, rape, murder, and cannibalism are not consentual (by the recieving party/ies anyway). Homosexuality is by no means comparable. That's just ridiculous. Or trolling.

 

[AmorRoark]

i frown upon overripe fruit

lol, me too!

 

[bagochina]

i frown upon overripe fruit

lol, me too!

So many people having prejudicial behavior toward over ripe fruit. I guess you are unaware overripe bananas make the best banana bread. Your loss.

 

[bronson]

Lets all make an attempt to get this back on topic if possible.

 

[AminoAcid]

aminoacid, to say that sexuality can be a choice, it doesn't mean that homosexuality doesn't occur naturally on its own.

I think you might've misunderstood me. I think homosexuality is pretty much an innate genetic/physiological condition, just as strong, complete and 'natural' as a heterosexual's love of vagina is. As far as I've seen the only time homosexuality is a "choice" is when someone decides to get high and flib someone on the B-side out of curiosity.

From talking to many gay-men, they laugh at the idea of bi-sexuals, and see them as scared/dishonest homosexuals.

 

[L2R]

lulz, puritans of any kind are a bit funny imo. sexuality isn't black and white, it's all grey, imo.

the example you gave is one of many where dispositions can waver. however, the change can't be forced by others, desire doesn't work that way. i have always been cautious about saying that it can be a choice, as it presents an opportunity for people to think that sexuality can be "fixed". it can't be, since it aint broken.