Stimulants Caffeine, Safe but counter-productive stimulant?

[SpiralusSancti]

How does ephedrine feel as a stimulant? if you’ve ever tried it on its own without caffeine, could you describe how it feels in comparison? for a long time, I’ve tried to research how exactly ephedrine makes a person feel but all experiences I come across involve quite a large dose of caffeine being Co-administered.

Without stim tolerance and when it's novel, in intensity and recreationally to me felt way more closer to amphetamine (than in fact to MDMA as I didn't try good amphs) than caffeine. With tolerance and after novelty is loss it's closer to caffeine. Just to be clear I'm talking about intensity not effects itself, they really are more physical then mental but, especially if you are new to drugs feels quite impressive. I always smoked weed and had sex when I took it and I'm sure that added a lot of positive things to experience so it's subjective a lot.
First few times I tried ephedrine (high dose orally) I thought it was better than street amphetamine I tried up to that point. After I tasted high purity amphetamine I changed my mind, totally.
I plan to try it for sport & opiate potentiating sometimes as for other uses I'm fine with coffee. Thing is that when under stress or during WDs coffee without weed or benzos can induce me anxiety. I imagine ephedrine would do more so. Some drugs really require that you spend loads of energy they provide in order to feel good or even to avoid being uncomfortable.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

O yeah, it felt that intense only during come up, after it wasn't that intense like "real" stims can be but still a lot stronger than caffeine. Tho when as a teen I ate a lot of guarana capsules I was surprised. That worked maybe a few times tops after that.
I think those aren't only due to placebo and novelty but also really high doses caused me perma tolerance. And I sure don't want to chase caffeine or ephedrine high when amphs and other stims still work fine in reasonable (I think) dose after breaks.

 

[Neuroprotection]

anyone ever tried pure taurine. most people know it as an energy drink ingredient which is lumped together with caffeine and sometimes falsely reported to be a stimulant. in reality, it is an non-proteinegenic inhibitory amino acid with significant CNS activity. i’ve had lots of energy drinks in my life but I’d love to try taurine at a significant dose on its own once I’ve quit caffeine. if it really has antianxiety/antistress effects, it might really help me get work done and stop procrastinating.

 

[Neuroprotection]

O yeah, it felt that intense only during come up, after it wasn't that intense like "real" stims can be but still a lot stronger than caffeine. Tho when as a teen I ate a lot of guarana capsules I was surprised. That worked maybe a few times tops after that.
I think those aren't only due to placebo and novelty but also really high doses caused me perma tolerance. And I sure don't want to chase caffeine or ephedrine high when amphs and other stims still work fine in reasonable (I think) dose after breaks.

In that case, ephedrine might not be the best replacement for caffeine especially given its tendency to induce anxiety. on a sidenote, do you think nutrients like B Vitamins, Tyrosine, phenylalanine and others could make a good replacement for caffeine. i’m wondering if after quitting caffeine, such nutritional supplementation could gently boost dopamine levels and provide mild stimulation, whilst also helping my Brain and body to recover from years of chronic stress and very heavy caffeine use. i’m hoping that taking such a nutritional approach could boost my stress resilience and help me push as far ahead in my career/life as possible before introducing other pharmacological substances.

 

[CFC]

How does ephedrine feel as a stimulant? if you’ve ever tried it on its own without caffeine, could you describe how it feels in comparison? for a long time, I’ve tried to research how exactly ephedrine makes a person feel but all experiences I come across involve quite a large dose of caffeine being Co-administered.

You probably need to go to bodybuilding forums if you want to find out about eph experiences, as they're by far the biggest users.

I quite like eph, great for focus and energy, not so much anxiety as caffeine. I used to mega-dose it with meth in order to make meth more punchy.

 

[CFC]

anyone ever tried pure taurine

Sure, loads. I can report no subject effects whatsoever.

 

[Frog Dreams]

I'm probably for now but there's a lot of bum chemistry.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

In that case, ephedrine might not be the best replacement for caffeine especially given its tendency to induce anxiety. on a sidenote, do you think nutrients like B Vitamins, Tyrosine, phenylalanine and others could make a good replacement for caffeine. i’m wondering if after quitting caffeine, such nutritional supplementation could gently boost dopamine levels and provide mild stimulation, whilst also helping my Brain and body to recover from years of chronic stress and very heavy caffeine use. i’m hoping that taking such a nutritional approach could boost my stress resilience and help me push as far ahead in my career/life as possible before introducing other pharmacological substances.

I tried taurine, tyrosine and many other supplements I can't say I noticed much from those alone. Honestly if it was cheap I would be trying out all kinds of supplements and suplement combinations as some at least work great as adding some energy to benzo and opiate highs. Or when you need help with hangovers. Maybe even to be more energetic during sex. Well for exercise ofc. And why not waking up. But as for noticing high from most of those stuff idk, I don't notice strong coffee beyond starting bowel movement and being tasty. I drink tea cuz it's healthy but I can't say I feel high from it. I drink some herbs tea that should relax but I don't really notice that either, but it doesn't hurt. For people who haven't experienced stronger stuff I guess it's possible someone gets what he or she'll consider strong high until trying something stronger.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I quite like eph, great for focus and energy, not so much anxiety as caffeine. I used to mega-dose it with meth in order to make meth more punchy.

Would you share what's mega-dose?
Iirc I used 300mg with weed, without any stim tolerance and it was really nice. Now I don't notice much from such dose even after not using any stims for a long time.
I think stims are along dissos probably most fucked up when it comes to perma tolerance and cross tolerance.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Sure, loads. I can report no subject effects whatsoever.

Okay, thanks for your feedback. I guess I’ll just use taurine for its nutritional and neuro restorative effects and maybe I’ll give ephedrine a try as an occasional stimulant once I’ve quit caffeine. I probably won’t combine it with amphetamines. I think nicotine will be my go to stimulant to replace caffeine, with perhaps the odd hit of ephedrine if I’m feeling very tired. Just wanted to check, do you know what the half-life of ephedrine is? if it’s shorter than caffeine, that would be brilliant.

 

[CFC]

Would you share what's mega-dose?
Iirc I used 300mg with weed, without any stim tolerance and it was really nice. Now I don't notice much from such dose even after not using any stims for a long time.
I think stims are along dissos probably most fucked up when it comes to perma tolerance and cross tolerance.

Yeah probably like 300mg several times over a few hours. I had a pot of 5000 20mg tablets IIRC. I wouldn't want to encourage anyone else to think that's a reasonable type dose though, it could probably kill some without stimulant tolerance and a dodgy ticker.

 

[CFC]

If you're looking for various alternatives to try @Neuroprotection don't forget the ~racetams. Most would describe them as useful to varying degrees, either alone or in combination with other things.

 

[Neuroprotection]

I tried taurine, tyrosine and many other supplements I can't say I noticed much from those alone. Honestly if it was cheap I would be trying out all kinds of supplements and suplement combinations as some at least work great as adding some energy to benzo and opiate highs. Or when you need help with hangovers. Maybe even to be more energetic during sex. Well for exercise ofc. And why not waking up. But as for noticing high from most of those stuff idk, I don't notice strong coffee beyond starting bowel movement and being tasty. I drink tea cuz it's healthy but I can't say I feel high from it. I drink some herbs tea that should relax but I don't really notice that either, but it doesn't hurt. For people who haven't experienced stronger stuff I guess it's possible someone gets what he or she'll consider strong high until trying something stronger.

I guess that’s fine with me. I’m not really looking to get high with supplements, it’s more about trying to treat my chronic fatigue and chronic stress/anxiety.

I’ve come to the realisation that it might have been these which have tremendously worsened my procrastination although I do believe that tendency is still naturally within me. i’m hoping supplements will help with my resilience, thus helping me push ahead in getting my life together and escaping the stressful situations I am currently in.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Yeah probably like 300mg several times over a few hours. I had a pot of 5000 20mg tablets IIRC. I wouldn't want to encourage anyone else to think that's a reasonable type dose though, it could probably kill some without stimulant tolerance and a dodgy ticker.

What you wrote really reminded me of insane increase in heart rate and even blurry vision. Essentially ODing a bit lol.

 

[Neuroprotection]

despite being a relatively benign and pervasive stimulant, caffeine’s mechanism of action, (adenosine receptor blockade) has stimulated research into the adenosine system for treatment of many psychiatric conditions ranging from depression and insomnia to cognitive dysfunction and Parkinson’s disease. however, one of the most interesting in my opinion is the fact that The role of adenosine and it’s receptors in drug addiction is also being investigated. I don’t believe caffeine its self has much potential to treat addiction but I think it’s potential role as a gateway drug is very interesting. some people suggest that as with many other substances, adolescent exposure to caffeine can increase the rewarding value and stimulating perception of dopaminergic stimulants like cocaine in adulthood. I drank caffeine heavily as a child and some of my teen years so that could partly explains my fascination with dopaminergic stimulants, even though I have not tried them.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Caffeine is a molecule with no variation, I think, so there is only one type. However, you might be thinking of caffeine citrate, which is used in energy drinks and medicines and enters the body extremely rapidly. this is how some energy drink Brands get away with claiming that their products contain just as much or even less caffeine than a cup of coffee but provide better energy. in reality, there is technically less caffeine in such products, but caffeine citrate will hit almost all at once making it much more potent.

In regards to coffee keeping you awake, that might depend on the brand/type you are using. Last night, I got almost no sleep after drinking a flask of really strong coffee earlier in the day. I knew something was wrong yesterday when I started feeling extremely wired and agitated but I thought it would wear off by 1AM. I managed to sleep about one hour in total but I could still feel the effects of the caffeine in the morning quite strongly. i’m hoping to crash out and sleep beautifully tonight. despite often destroying sleep Quality, there is a theory that very early morning caffeine consumption can lead to more reliable and deeper sleep at night due to adenosine receptor supersensitivity once caffeine has left the system.
Caffeine is a good energiser as I’ve said before, but unfortunately it does nothing for focus/attention and it makes stress worse.

There are a bunch of Xanthines.

A caffeine plant which always zipped the heck out of me whenever I did it was Guarana. I'm not sure if it was other Xanthines or time release caffeine.
You have to get the powdered seed and mix it in water, then you stir, and drink the water powder and all. The powder has non-water soluble things which give a sustained release. Never gotten much from supplements and the like with Guarana.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

as the most popular psychoactive drug in the world, it’s easy to forget that caffeine is a potent drug. of course, it is much safer and less addictive than many other psychoactive drugs, but many say it’s also the least useful for productivity and focus.
Those who benefited from quitting it claim to have discovered that caffeine was actually counter-productive because it increased anxiety and created an agitated energy which could put them off achieving their goals and just generally increasing stress levels.
I wonder if any of you have quit caffeine and if so, what were the benefits?
I would be especially interested to know if quitting caffeine affected your experience with other drugs. i’m thinking of quitting caffeine myself at some point, just need to wait until conditions are right and I have enough time to cope with withdrawals.

Im one of those who have quit and restarted a daily caffeine habit many times.(Usually Coffee)
For me its a benefit the first few weeks and it tricks me into keep drinking a few cups per day.
But after a few months its just a withdrawal im trying to push off.
Total zombie mode until the first cup etc.

What works for me is drinking green tea or yerba mate.(Still caffeine but alot milder and I dont get the side effects)
Then once in awhile i pop a caffeine or ephedrine pill if i feel I need the extra push that day.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Im one of those who have quit and restarted a daily caffeine habit many times.(Usually Coffee)
For me its a benefit the first few weeks and it tricks me into keep drinking a few cups per day.
But after a few months its just a withdrawal im trying to push off.
Total zombie mode until the first cup etc.

What works for me is drinking green tea or yerba mate.(Still caffeine but alot milder and I dont get the side effects)
Then once in awhile i pop a caffeine or ephedrine pill if i feel I need the extra push that day.

How Long did you quit caffeine for? did you notice any changes to your drug use patterns or your responses to other drugs whilst off caffeine? for me, in the parts of my life where I didn’t use caffeine I noticed the following affects; changing sleep pattern with waking up later and going to bed later, severe morning fatigue and becoming more energised throughout the day reaching a peak by the evening, A greater general sense of calm, somewhat improved imagination and my thoughts generally feel much deeper and more profound.
In regards to other substances, I’ve noticed that being off caffeine makes me much more fascinated with different types of drugs, and I have a greater urge to try or at least learn about them. although I’ve not tried any other drugs apart from nicotine, i’ve heard mixed reports about how caffeine affects other drugs. Some find positive potentiation, whilst others claim caffeine makes other drugs, especially stimulants feel more toxic, anxiety provoking and maybe dysphoric. for me, nicotine feels much better/ more rewarding and improves my focus much more when I’m completely off caffeine.

 

[paltatomate]

I'm a morning person and for the last months my three cups of strong coffee are the only "must haves" just for the sake of enjoyment. I like the taste, and that's about it because the caffeine I get from those three cups does absolutely nothing for.

There are days in my current situation (won't bore you with details) when I need an extra boost to helps me get through a boring work load without falling asleep at my desk, and then I take a low dose of modafinil.

Now I don't think replacing something one's got addicted to with something else is ever a good idea. But I understand there are situations when one needs (or wants) a little help. So if not feeling tired and avoiding procrastination is your goal, modafinil may help you with that.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

How Long did you quit caffeine for? did you notice any changes to your drug use patterns or your responses to other drugs whilst off caffeine? for me, in the parts of my life where I didn’t use caffeine I noticed the following affects; changing sleep pattern with waking up later and going to bed later, severe morning fatigue and becoming more energised throughout the day reaching a peak by the evening, A greater general sense of calm, somewhat improved imagination and my thoughts generally feel much deeper and more profound.
In regards to other substances, I’ve noticed that being off caffeine makes me much more fascinated with different types of drugs, and I have a greater urge to try or at least learn about them. although I’ve not tried any other drugs apart from nicotine, i’ve heard mixed reports about how caffeine affects other drugs. Some find positive potentiation, whilst others claim caffeine makes other drugs, especially stimulants feel more toxic, anxiety provoking and maybe dysphoric. for me, nicotine feels much better/ more rewarding and improves my focus much more when I’m completely off caffeine.

Right now about 2months, but I do this loop at least once per year lol.

For me its the opposite, after been on coffeine for a few months my need to take the edge of increases.
Usually just a heavy cannabis habit, but it happens that some xanax or a oxy slips down once in awhile aswell.

Generally im not much into other drugs except psychedelics and ket.
The consumtion of these seems about the same with or without.
I also take Kratom once per week more or less.
Had a few stints of daily consumtion with it though.
2 periods of about 6months each where i ended up doing between 5-10g a day in the end.
I would probably been doing higher doses, but i was smart enough to have at least 5different strains at home at most times.


For me ive noticed that a healtyish polydrug habit seems alot less destructive then trying to find one or two things that keeps me going.
I try to live a active lifestyle with martial arts training etc.
And as much as possible use supplements and food to regulate my mood and energy.
Then I can save the big guns for those really hard days.