Boyfriend Relapsed...Again.

[Busty St Clare]

I dont believe that willpower or choice comes into play with opiate addiction, maybe other drugs like meth, but opiates are special. Until youve been an addict of opiates youll never understand.

Opiates are an exception.

Also drug addiction decides what you want for you, its not often that someone stops using willingly, unless they want to stop using, so what if a drug addictions effects cause you to NOT want to stop, making the choice for you.




- We are free to do as we will, but our will itself, it is not free. -

What makes opiates so much more special than any other weakness or addiction? Are they some sort of magical elixa given to us by the Gods? Sure they feel nice but that doesn't suddenly absolve you from being a selfish arse. Gambling addiction is just as appealing to some, why are they not allow to be selfish and ego centric?

You don't want people interfering in your buzz? Fine, there is a reason why you lose family and friends when you hit rock bottom. No one wants to be around you either. But if you choose to seek human relations be it a partner or family you have to accept responsiblity for your actions. An opiate addiction is alluring but you are not hooked the first hit (unless you truly are a weak link). There are a series of decisions you make on the road to addiction. Most people have the will power to decide when is appropriate to use or not. The weak and selfish decide on hedinism long before the physical addiction take holds. They decide to have just another hit, or that they will blow work of for a day and get high or that this time will be the last time, just in case they might get addicted, it wont happen to me, I wil be different than those who went before me.

"Until youve been an addict of opiates youll never understand"? This is the mantra of a junkie.In order to become an addict you have to be self indulgent first. No one else is responsible for your predicament. You buy the ticket you take the ride. If you blame the drug not yourself then you are the reason drug use gets such a bad name, not because society does not understand.




Lol at your EB game addiction by the way.

 

[Antecessor]

What makes opiates so much more special than any other weakness or addiction? Are they some sort of magical elixa given to us by the Gods? Sure they feel nice but that doesn't suddenly absolve you from being a selfish arse. Gambling addiction is just as appealing to some, why are they not allow to be selfish and ego centric?

You don't want people interfering in your buzz? Fine, there is a reason why you lose family and friends when you hit rock bottom. No one wants to be around you either. But if you choose to seek human relations be it a partner or family you have to accept responsiblity for your actions. An opiate addiction is alluring but you are not hooked the first hit (unless you truly are a weak link). There are a series of decisions you make on the road to addiction. Most people have the will power to decide when is appropriate to use or not. The weak and selfish decide on hedinism long before the physical addiction take holds. They decide to have just another hit, or that they will blow work of for a day and get high or that this time will be the last time, just in case they might get addicted, it wont happen to me, I wil be different than those who went before me.

"Until youve been an addict of opiates youll never understand"? This is the mantra of a junkie.In order to become an addict you have to be self indulgent first. No one else is responsible for your predicament. You buy the ticket you take the ride. If you blame the drug not yourself then you are the reason drug use gets such a bad name, not because society does not understand.




Lol at your EB game addiction by the way.

Let's be clear here, stop insulting all drug users by saying that anyone who uses is selfish or egocentric or junkies or all the other labels you have here applied to them. Society already does that enough thank you very much.

Ones behaviour is only selfish when it harms another unjustly, drug use is just a behaviour, among many other human behaviours, that by itself does not harm others, and so is not selfish.

Selfish behaviour is stealing another's money to use for yourself, no matter if you use that money to buy drugs, legal or illegal, or to buy a pair of new shoes.

However it's the stealing, not the using, buying or wearing of shoes that's selfish and egocentric.

Clearly you don't understand these terms well enough to be using them.

Selfish and egocentric, causing negative consequences unjustly to others just for your own benefit and pleasure.

Pleasure in itself is not.

I have been a user of opiates for many many years, I take opiates every day and intend to do do for the rest of my life.
I have stabilized my tolerance, I take the same amount each day at the same time, it does not stop me from living my life, but had actually vastly improved my quality of life, combined with my anti deps and other therapys.
My problems prior to opiate addiction actually saw me unable to work or function in society, I tried meth weed and benzodiazepines, all of which made my problems worse, especially the meth addiction.
I quit meth one day, just didn't want to take anymore, it was easy to stop. No sickness, only a few bad dreams and weakness.
But when I started on opiates, I changed.
Got a job.
Started talking to people, my depression subsided.
I still have problems, like a surgical fixation, but my life has been improved so much by opiates.

Opiate addiction is only a problem if one cannot get opiates or wants to stop using. Neither is true for me.
I am surrounded by friends and family, have a LTR and two kids, 5 and 3 years old. No one is ever harmed or neglected by my opiate usage, ever, not even myself.


So go apply your negative generalizations and assumptions about all opiate users, to yourself, because they don't fit here.
And they don't fit a lot of people.


And opiates, they are different, totally and completely different from any other drug or addiction I know of, how a person responds to opiates, by becoming a fiend or being responsible, is dependent on variables unique to each person, not the drug itself.
Give a person a gun, some if mad will shoot a bunch of people, others will use it responsibly without harming others, it's all dependent on that persons character, not the gun itself.

If you become a fiend on drugs, that's your personal moral failing, don't try to excuse yourself by saying all drug users are like you, so it's not your fault, it's the drug.
False, because many people use opiates to addiction without harming others.
While an addict may not have a choice to take opiates or not, how they behave while taking the drug is dependent on their character.

Opiates are exceptional, most opiate users and addict will tell you this, and if you haven't used it, you won't know.

Accusing all opiate users of being selfish hedonists is just plain uninformed as to the reasons one starts, continues, and becomes addicted to opiates.
You don't know what's in other peoples heads, so if they are not harming you or anyone else why judge?
You come off like your trying to be so morealy superior to everyone else, when you have never experienced the things they have.



Ps all this productive member of society nonsense, is just that, nonsense.
How does a paralysed person who survives on dole payments contribute to society?
He doesn't, can't, does this mean he is of no value?
Well according to the people who like to say the line productive member of society, yes he has no value.

You cannot legitimately attach a value to anyones life, and no one life is more valuable than another, the morally superior who are so strong as to not give in to hedonism and pleasure seeking, have no more worth than any of those weaker ones.



I wonder why non drug users would come to a drug user site just to judge the sites drug users by calling them weak, immoral, lacking willpower AND telling the drug user everything about that users DOC. That befuddles me actually.

 

[Busty St Clare]

What makes you think I don't use drugs? I have no beef with drug users, they are some of my oldest friends.

If you are able to function that is fantastic, but this thread is not about you. You aren't the one whose girlfriend is so upset she started a thread about it.

 

[Antecessor]

If my GF made a thread about how upset she was about my Eb games 'addiction' people would tell her that my problem may not be as serious or terrible as she made out, ie she needs to get perspective.

Replacing every instance if drug use with something innocuous like eb visits, then see how it reads.

Now that's how the op reads to me, as I don't view drug use as that terrible a problem, as long as there is no harm.

So my posts have merely attempted to point out that a different perspective exists, that drug addiction is not a moral failing, addiction itself does not always harm, and drug addicts are not bad weak hedonistic people (especially since drugs are most often taken to treat problems, not just for pleasure) and that maybe that perspective would help her distress.

Her BF would benefit greatly from not having to hide his relapses from his life partner, instead of dying of an overdose in some dirty motel room, he would instead be around other people, even his GF, and can thus be saved from that fate.
How would the GF feel if that did happen, that to avoid her threat to leave him if he relapses again, next time he relapses he is by himself, ods, and dies.
I wouldn't like that on my conscience if it were me in that situation.


Imagine if my epileptic GF felt the need to hide manifestations if her illness, which she actually did initially on meeting me, and she had a fit somewhere in private, and I wasn't there to turn her on her side and call the ambos, and she suffocates to death.

I could possibly be saving the op, and her bf, from such a fate. However unlikely!

If you want someone to be honest with you, never react badly even to the worst of news, else he will never tell you things again - Japanese maxim I heard from Total War.

My personal experience as an opiate addict was put forth not to be superior, but to show that character, not drugs, makes someone a bad person, tying in my theme of responsable drug use being acceptable.

The op herself admits that she knew of her BFs illness prior to the relationship happening.
The op admits that her BF works and pays half of everything, and does not steal to find his relapses.
The most he does is lie about it when he relapses, and he does that BECAUSE of how much it distresses the op, and how she reacts when he is open about his problem. So he hides the problem instead. Not good or healthy for anyone who has a problem (I assume he sees it as a problem else he would never have stopped, done rehab), especially a problem caused by a illness, to have to hide it.

Imagine in his mind, he might be wanting to get back into rehab, but what could be a better indicator to his GF of how bad his problem has become, than having to go to rehab to re fix the problem. So he can't admit openly as to the scale of the problem and so can't seek professional help for it.

Openness and communication are vital for any relationship to work.

However openness and communication at impossible between those who are not equal.
A worker will not be completely honest with his boss about that extra 30 seconds he sat on the toilet for, because their relationship is unequal, which means there are consequences to any such openness.

However a true partnership among equals would mean that any problems would be owned openly by the collective, as if a single body.

My GF has epilepsy, so I do too, ie her problems are also mine, I share the burden.
She doesn't need to hide anything from me as if she does something or has a problem, as a single unit, I have also done that thing and have that problem as well.
You don't kick yourself out on the street or otherwise punish yourself, usually. You don't fear yourself or your own reaction.

My GF knows exactly where I am really going, when I say the toilets.


Maybe the OP needs to be just that much committed to the relationship that they become equals, and then lying won't be needed, and they can solve the problem TOGETHER, instead of how she describes it, where he must bear all consequence and responsability, alone, while having to hide.

And if such a commitment cannot be made, perhaps there is not enough love between the two, or there are irrational expectations, so that perhaps the relationship should indeed be terminated.

Only the OP can truely judge that from her subjective perspective, but I do suggest an open mind, and a new perspective however obtained, maybe from others experiences (the op did ask for opinions and experiences), maybe from new experiences of her own.

I have finally said all I wish to say to the op so good luck.

 

[Lysis]

Sorry, Antecessor, but your posts are those of a true junkie, and they are selfish people. "You must understand me..I'm going to put you through hell, and I will continue to fall back on my addiction "disease" and if you don't understand that, you don't love me." Junkies are very selfish and self-absorbed. I've seen them come around and see what they are doing to family/friends who love them, and snap out of it, but junkies care more about the drug than ANYONE.

You can spin it any way you like, but a junkie will run you through the mud and expect you to just "understand me." That's fine. If a drug is the most important thing to you, more power to you, but don't be surprised when your GF has to think about her own self-preservation and cut you loose. You're touting communication and understanding, but at no point do you accept or put yourself in the shoes of the other person, which is unfair and selfish. I'm sure your gf has put herself in your shoes many times and has tried to be patient. At some point, the patience turns into self-degradation, and to survive for your own sanity, you have to cut the addict loose.

 

[Antecessor]

Sorry, Antecessor, but your posts are those of a true junkie, and they are selfish people. "You must understand me..I'm going to put you through hell, and I will continue to fall back on my addiction "disease" and if you don't understand that, you don't love me." Junkies are very selfish and self-absorbed. I've seen them come around and see what they are doing to family/friends who love them, and snap out of it, but junkies care more about the drug than ANYONE.

You can spin it any way you like, but a junkie will run you through the mud and expect you to just "understand me." That's fine. If a drug is the most important thing to you, more power to you, but don't be surprised when your GF has to think about her own self-preservation and cut you loose. You're touting communication and understanding, but at no point do you accept or put yourself in the shoes of the other person, which is unfair and selfish. I'm sure your gf has put herself in your shoes many times and has tried to be patient. At some point, the patience turns into self-degradation, and to survive for your own sanity, you have to cut the addict loose.

Ok lysis I'm sure you think that know it all.

You're completely wrong of course.

I don't blame anything on drugs, because I don't do anything to my family that needs to be blamed on anything. My drug use has no negatives for those around me.

Just because you might act like a junkie and hurt others when addicted to drugs, doesn't mean others don't have the ability to control themselves.

Like I said above, drugs don't make you do bad things, bad character makes you do bad things.

Obviously drugs do harm others, but not everyone, obviously some drug users harm others, but not every drug addict harms others, therefore drug addiction itself is not always a problem, nor is it the cause of a persons bad actions.

Addiction is only a problem if I want to stop, or don't have access to the drug. Neither of which is true for me, therefore no problem.

Opiates are just a tool which I use to amplify my life's quality, I do not value the drug, I value myself, my state of being, my happiness, and above everything, my family's happiness.

Lysis you truely have no idea what goes on in my head, and I don't know what could possibly go through your head to call me a junkie and claim I'm dragging my family through mud and harming them, or that I value drugs more than them.

Just because I advised the op to either breakup or be accepting of her BFs drug use, else she could become responsible for his OD death alone in some alley or motel. It's not safe to force people you care about to hide their drug use, or relapses, it prevents the sufferers from getting treatment, and like I said above, could make you responsible for their deaths.
Either be openly accepting and supportive of the partners drug struggle, or breakup if drug use is unacceptable to you. It's dangerous, playing with his life and health, to do otherwise.

I certainly would never want to be responsible for another's death, even if they were not a loved one.

 

[LuGoJ]

Addiction is only a problem if I want to stop, or don't have access to the drug. Neither of which is true for me, therefore no problem.

You don't see the ridiculousness in this statement? Sorry, it just sounds more and more wacked out the more I read it. If you do not value something then not having access to it should not be a problem but who knows, maybe I am crazy.

 

[freddy47]

Junkies are very selfish and self-absorbed. I've seen them come around and see what they are doing to family/friends who love them, and snap out of it, but junkies care more about the drug than ANYONE.

They care more about the drug than anything else because if they don't get the drug they will feel like death is approaching Again having been an addict myself I am not defending the junkie mentality. I am simply saying that it is not so much selfishness as it is an overwhelming desire and sometimes self preservation in the sense that no one ever wants to go through heroin withdrawal. It is truly a terrible pain to go through and I would not wish it upon my worst enemy. Well maybe one

You can spin it any way you like, but a junkie will run you through the mud and expect you to just "understand me."

That is a generalization. Yes there are plenty of junkies out there that will rob you and then expect forgiveness and blame it all on their addiction. But hey I never stole from anybody. Never ever hurt my family or others I loved. The only person I ended up hurting was myself. And when I ran out of money for my addiction I simply went without for awhile. You don't have to believe me but this is what I went through. In the end I quit because I just didn't want to be that person anymore. But do I feel particularly ashamed about anything I did while I was addicted? Not really. The only morally questionable thing I ever did was borrow money from friends to feed my addiction. Money which I paid back in full. So please don't generalize us addicts and former addicts. It hurts to be honest to be put in the same group as thieves and asshole douche bags.

This thought has crossed my mind, and it scares me. If I decide to leave, is he going to seek out more drugs and do something potentially dangerous? We have discussed it, and I told him that it's unfair for him to place that kind of burden on me. I feel like I have always come from a place of love, despite Antecessor saying I'm a bitch, especially considering I've never had an addiction problem and I'm just going off what he tells me. He often says I am one of the only people to stick with him this long, and be truly supportive, and I agree. I know that flipping out and screaming and yelling and making him feel worse will not improve the situation. He knows he doesn't want to go back, and I believe him when he says that, which is why I'm so shocked that this even happened in the first place.

For the record I don't think you're a bitch at all From what I've read from your post I find you to be a loving person who genuinely cares about what happens to your boyfriend which I think makes you a good person if anything As far as I can tell you have been supportive. Hell I wish I had a girl like you when I was going through my addiction maybe I would have quit sooner lol But in all seriousness I think the best option is an intervention with you and some friends that you know don't do any sort of opiates or benzos. Don't attack him. Just remind him of how bad it got. When I thought about quitting all I thought about was how bad it got for me. Staying in my apartment alone sweating big old drops of sweat and wishing that I was dead. Then getting robbed by my dealer whom I trusted and a whole bunch of other bullshit made me think it was ultimately not worth it which it isn't.

So IMO remind him of how bad it got for him. You say he almost got arrested right? Or had to go to court? Well remind him of that. Tell him that you don't want to see him go to jail one day. Ask him if he really wants to end up like his brother which is after all a huge possibility.

Another thing that worked for me was remembering what I use to like doing when I wasn't on dope. Before I started doing dope, I was passionate about writing. In fact I had a job I liked, writing for a small college newspaper. When I got addicted I quit that job (and incidentally dropped out of school) and pretty much stopped writing. Then one day I picked up one of my old journals that I free write in, and it was like WOW! I actually used to care about something other than dope! And whats more I was actually good (or at least ok) at it! I'm sure your boyfriend has something he is passionate about besides dope.

And one final thing. Its understandable to be mad when he relapses. I still have the occasional urge to use now after 7-8 months of being clean from heroin. But so far I've managed to fight it. But there were other times I have tried to quit and failed. And I got mad at myself. But anger doesn't really solve anything. Especially when it comes to addiction. When people got mad at me whenever I relapsed I just wanted to use more. I just wanted to sink deeper into myself and the drug. You got to understand that while you're on heroin its like you're being smothered with comfort. And when faced with the uncomfortable situations and reality in general you find yourself wanting that smothering comfort even more.

 

[littlepenguin]

I am in the same boat as antecessor. My heavy drug usage doesn't effect anyone but myself, and I make sure of that. The moment it started effecting somebody around me that I care about, is when it would become a problem. I have never, will never - steal, not pay money back, pawn my shit, act a damn fool, etc. I truly feel that I am better off as a person using the drug that I am fond of. It makes me a happier person, I can get more work done, and I enjoy it. The only negative consequence of my usage is serious lack of sleep which has made my immune system go down a bit, but again - this effects nobody but myself.

 

[Busty St Clare]

Antecessor I admire the fact that you are happy with your life and family while still being addicted but as a parent myself I think you are underestimating the negative crutch it will eventually have on your children. For now it is easy to hide as "going off to the toilet" but kids work things out pretty quick. Are you going to be happy the day your kids know your are an addict? Would you be happy for them to become addicted them selves?

As the get older it will become an issue. What will happen if you want to travel out of the country with your kids? Are you ready for them to be ostracized at school for having a junky mum or dad?

 

[LuGoJ]

I have never, will never - steal, not pay money back, pawn my shit, act a damn fool, etc.

Never say never, nobody ever knows what the future holds. I can guarantee you that almost everyone that has done those things have also said what you said. Pain and fear makes people do a lot things they thought they were above doing.

 

[freddy47]

^That is a fair point. I drew many lines in the sand. But I only crossed two. I said I would never borrow money from my friends to buy dope with. I did but paid it all back in good fashion. I said I would never pawn my stuff for dope money. I did but bought it all back within a months time.

Not all addicts take the road that leads them to steal or whatever is what I am trying to say. But yes it is a tempting road to go down.

 

[Antecessor]

You don't see the ridiculousness in this statement? Sorry, it just sounds more and more wacked out the more I read it. If you do not value something then not having access to it should not be a problem but who knows, maybe I am crazy.

Try not taking, food.
See if that becomes a problem for you, a life and death problem actually.
Yet do you value food, or do you value it's nutrition which supports your life.
Do you value food more than your family, even though youll die without food.

Would you resort to canabilism to obtain food if needed to live, or even murder canabilism?

So food presents a problem do large that if you can't access food, you will die, and you might even kill others and eat them, all to satisfy a desire, a hunger, for food, and a desire not to die.

Worse is thirst.

Now understand why your comment is just a bit silly!


Opiates, the form I currently enjoy is bupe, cause distress when you haven't consumed them for some time, just like food or water, the problem is not the opiates, but the distress, the lack of opiates.



Oh and my kids know I have to take medicine to not get sick.
I explained it to them already.

 

[freddy47]

^That is kind of a false analogy but whatever.

 

[Antecessor]

^That is kind of a false analogy but whatever.

Not really.

The example of the food is used to more clearly point out that the problem is not with the opiates/food but the bad effects of not having the opiates/food for a period of time. If food can cause a much larger problem than opiates can, yet food is innocuous, even beneficial and needed for life, then it becomes obvious that opiates are not bad or whatever just because problems result from their lack.
Opiates are a tool, just like a knife or gun, it's how you use the tool, as dangerous as it is, if you slip it's an accident, but if you shoot someone it's your fault, not the objects.

 

[freddy47]

The reason I say it is a false analogy is because like you said food is absolutely necessary to sustain life. Opiates are not essential to sustaining life therefore you don't need them like you need food. Therefore killing or doing other things for food is basically just your instincts of survival taking over. That is where your analogy fails and becomes false. Also you reveal something about yourself when you compare these two things together.

So food presents a problem do large that if you can't access food, you will die, and you might even kill others and eat them, all to satisfy a desire, a hunger, for food, and a desire not to die.

By that rationale without opiates or the ability to obtain opiates you will hurt people to obtain it? You said yourself it only becomes a problem when you can't get it or if you want to stop. Does that mean if you desire to stop or you lose access to your opiate of choice you will suddenly starting hurting people to satisfy your desire? Or do something else that is shall we say morally questionable?

 

[Busty St Clare]

The difference is without food and water you will die. It only feels like you are dying with out opiates. No one dies from withdrawal.

I still would like to know if you would like to travel overseas with your kids ?

 

[freddy47]

^Thank you for pretty much repeating what I just said lol

 

[Busty St Clare]

This is slr, do you wanna make out?

 

[Antecessor]

Someone needs to get a dictionary and read the definition of analogy.

Of course food is not the same as drugs, the whole point of analogy is to compare two different but also similar things to point out certain properties.

Food is not bad.
However going without food can cause a major problem, a desire to do extreme things to obtain food, and even ultimately death.
Despite the problems caused by going without food, which could result in you doing bad things, this does not make eating food bad.

Same with drugs.

It's illogical to claim the bad effects from NOT having something, makes having that thing also bad.
The point of the analogy is to show something that has potentially WORSE withdrawal effects than opiates, even to the point of death, but is not generally considered bad to consume.

The fact that we don't need opiates to survive, meaning that the consequences of not having it are actually LESS severe than going without food, actually benefits my case, which is why I chose food.


No here is something that may shock you, based on some of the replys above.
Not all, not all, not all, starving people, give in to their desires to kill and eat humans, they suffer instead, they choose to not be cannibals, so they can be moral, even when the consequences are worse than opiate withdrawals.

So apply that to drugs.
Yes if you go without opiates, you will get sick, you will have a strong desire to obtain more opiates, however that does not mean that everyone who experiences these desires, act on them, if they don't want to use anymore they can restrain themselves despite their desires. The denial of immoral desires is the basis of all morality is it not.
Perhaps like me they do wish to continue using, however do not have enough money, but also do not want to steal from family members to fill the desire.
So I will attempt to fill the desire, but only by moral means, exercising control over myself.

Guess what if I was starving, yes I would canibalise already dead humans, I would eat worms and bugs, drink my own urine to survive, but I would not cross that moral line of harm, ie I would not kill and eat another human.

Same with opiates, I will not cross the moral line of harming others to get a fix, I will deny my desires, I will only go with my desires up to and no further than what I deem acceptable. I stop at harm.

I don't know why this point of self control is so hard to grasp.

Don't you control yourself? Or do you just follow your desires wherever they push you, when you see a beautiful woman in the street, and on approaching her to fill your desire, but are rejected, you do not rape her, you deny your desires, when you see something you want which belongs to another, and exhaust all moral means of obtaining it, do you then steal it?

Seriously lack of drugs will make an addict desire drugs, but like anyone else he has a choice in how far he will go to fill that desire, and that is his moral character.

The only thing that I believe the addict will not have a choice in, is whether to take drugs that ARE available without moral transgression. If the drug taking is not against his moral character, and he desires it, then he cannot say no, even if he has a whining girlfriend,
no he will just hide it.

Unless keeping his private business, private, is against his moral character. In which case he won't do that either. Hiding drug use from people who will arrest you, think badly of you, deny you service, or just get angry with you, is NOT immoral in my eyes.