Boyfriend Relapsed...Again.

[freddy47]

*facepalm* Jesus fucking Christ did you read anything but Antecessors bullshit or did you just form that opinion regardless of the discussion on here?

We have established that yes the majority of addicts are selfish pricks congrats on repeating that bit it has only been talked about on here ad infinitum. But NOT ALL ADDICTS ARE SELFISH PRICKS like you describe. You generalize addicts like they all follow one set of behavioral patterns and that is sickening.

I have never had the pleasure and misfortune of reading such well-spun, self-serving junkie garbage. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. Anyhoo, maybe this portion can be renamed and given its own thread "The Perfect Self-Justification for Junkies as Saints." lol

I don't see how that is remotely funny. No one here is claiming that addicts are completely blameless least of all me (perhaps Antecessor is) but definitely not me. All I'm saying is some addicts can maintain functionality and not screw over everyone they love to get their fix.

I know a dad that put a second mortgage on his house, then lost his house, to help his kid feed his opioid addiction. I asked the kid what he thought about this. He shrugged and said, "So what? It is not MY problem."

Ok so those kids are assholes. But again are all addicts like that? No. Some take responsibility for their own actions. Stop being so self righteous already and have a fucking heart for fucks sake.

Girlfriend, being as how your boyfriend has the disease of addiction, when I look in the mirror I can see his face even though I have never met him.

This says LOADS about you as a person. Even though I've never met you I'm starting to think that you are a bit of a bitch. See how does that feel? Doesn't feel good to have negative assumptions made about you does it?

 

[rocketqueen]

^ I am a BITCH, and I *don't* apologize for it. Any negative assumptions made about me are likely true. I was a low down scamming stealing lying junkie. The comment about the mirror is that I recognize myself in other addicts. At the risk of repetition, sir, you sound like a bit of a bitch yourself.

Why you gettin' so salty, anyways? I was not even referring to your posts. You have some sense about the reality of addiction. But you are awfully defensive about the whole thing, which makes me wonder what is hitting so close to home? Hmmmmmmm? And if you haven't fucked someone over to get dope, you are not yet a full-blown addict. Sadly, tho', you sound like someone scrambling to justify your addiction to yourself and others. If you think you are "not like other addicts" you are wrong. I generalize addicts because underneath it all, we are all alike.

At least I have the balls to admit what I am. You are either still using recreationally or, as the hallmark of addiction dictates, you are in denial.


I stand by my post and all of my remarks. I agree with Lysis and Busty St. Clare.

 

[Lysis]

aaah, rocketqueen, I know your anger. I've been there.

freddy, to answer your question, my BF who OD'd died. He was found dead in his bed by his friend. The only reason his mom got his life insurance and it was not deemed a suicide was because he left a check by his car keys to pay the rent the next day. Even then, the insurance company tried to screw her out of money to pay for his funeral, and we're talking shipping a body and his things from Florida to Utah. To help them out, I got the police report for them for the insurance company, and I got to read it. Was not a fun read, I'll tell you that. Then, I was called by the cops 3 times (the last time was 6 months after his death) and basically interrogated and treated like I was the one giving him drugs. The cop did not believe me that I had no idea he was a drug addict. The only drug I knew he took was weed. He hid everything from me, and because of his lies, I was treated like a criminal and spoken to like I was a POS from a cop who even asked me to come down to the police station to talk to him. I had 0 to hide, but if he had called me again, I would have lawyered up at that point, because he (and my ex's dad was chief of police in Utah, so I assume they thought I knew too) thought I was also a user and had something to do with his death.

So, I went through hell and so did his family. When drug addicts say "my addiction only harms me," I get pissed off about it, because that is so far from the truth.

 

[freddy47]

I am a BITCH, and I *don't* apologize for it. Any negative assumptions made about me are likely true. I was a low down scamming stealing lying junkie. The comment about the mirror is that I recognize myself in other addicts. At the risk of repetition, sir, you sound like a bit of a bitch yourself.

So you gave us other addicts a bad name. Good on you thanks for perpetuating the stereotype.

Why you gettin' so salty, anyways? I was not even referring to your posts. You have some sense about the reality of addiction. But you are awfully defensive about the whole thing, which makes me wonder what is hitting so close to home? Hmmmmmmm? And if you haven't fucked someone over to get dope, you are not yet a full-blown addict. Sadly, tho', you sound like someone scrambling to justify your addiction to yourself and others. If you think you are "not like other addicts" you are wrong. I generalize addicts because underneath it all, we are all alike.

Why are you measuring who is a true addict or not? Are you that much of a fuck up that just because you screwed people over all addicts MUST screw other people over otherwise they are not "true" addicts. What a load of shit.

At least I have the balls to admit what I am. You are either still using recreationally or, as the hallmark of addiction dictates, you are in denial.

I am not in denial. Not everyone falls into your very narrow definition of addict. I've realized I have an addiction and I've faced it down been clean for 8 months now. So your generalizations are just plain stupid and ignorant.

 

[freddy47]

freddy, to answer your question, my BF who OD'd died. He was found dead in his bed by his friend. The only reason his mom got his life insurance and it was not deemed a suicide was because he left a check by his car keys to pay the rent the next day. Even then, the insurance company tried to screw her out of money to pay for his funeral, and we're talking shipping a body and his things from Florida to Utah. To help them out, I got the police report for them for the insurance company, and I got to read it. Was not a fun read, I'll tell you that. Then, I was called by the cops 3 times (the last time was 6 months after his death) and basically interrogated and treated like I was the one giving him drugs. The cop did not believe me that I had no idea he was a drug addict. The only drug I knew he took was weed. He hid everything from me, and because of his lies, I was treated like a criminal and spoken to like I was a POS from a cop who even asked me to come down to the police station to talk to him. I had 0 to hide, but if he had called me again, I would have lawyered up at that point, because he (and my ex's dad was chief of police in Utah, so I assume they thought I knew too) thought I was also a user and had something to do with his death.

So, I went through hell and so did his family. When drug addicts say "my addiction only harms me," I get pissed off about it, because that is so far from the truth.

Fair enough. I can't argue against that last bit. I agree with you.

I'm sorry that happened to you btw

 

[rocketqueen]

@Freddygotfingered You are the one that is STUPID and IGNORANT (she stomps feet and clenches her fists, thinking that balls wore as earrings is not a good look) lmao...so THERE!

aaah, rocketqueen, I know your anger. I've been there.

my BF who OD'd died. He was found dead in his bed by his friend. The only reason his mom got his life insurance and it was not deemed a suicide was because he left a check by his car keys to pay the rent the next day. Even then, the insurance company tried to screw her out of money to pay for his funeral, and we're talking shipping a body and his things from Florida to Utah. To help them out, I got the police report for them for the insurance company, and I got to read it. Was not a fun read, I'll tell you that. Then, I was called by the cops 3 times (the last time was 6 months after his death) and basically interrogated and treated like I was the one giving him drugs. The cop did not believe me that I had no idea he was a drug addict. The only drug I knew he took was weed. He hid everything from me, and because of his lies, I was treated like a criminal and spoken to like I was a POS from a cop who even asked me to come down to the police station to talk to him. I had 0 to hide, but if he had called me again, I would have lawyered up at that point, because he (and my ex's dad was chief of police in Utah, so I assume they thought I knew too) thought I was also a user and had something to do with his death.

So, I went through hell and so did his family. When drug addicts say "my addiction only harms me," I get pissed off about it, because that is so far from the truth.

I am really sorry to hear about your BF. It is tragic. We do not have to die. It does not have to be this way. I let a guy smoke crack in my house, and I paid dearly for that one. He suffered from a brain anyruism and 12 hours after I called 911 his family was taking him off life support. He was brain dead. The police did not come to jack me up and I really don't know why. I knew the tox screen was gonna show boy, girl, and meth. It was a BAD DAY when his dad and brother showed up at my house to get his truck about 24 hours after he was set free. They wanted to know what happened. I told them that he had relapsed. They told me, "John doesn't get high."

Anyhoo, addicts seem to fail to understand the harm they heap on others, ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLE WITH CHILDREN. That bit about "I am only hurting myself" gets me charred. When your mother and father [if you are lucky enough to have parent(s)] cry at night, lose sleep, pace the floor, and dread of the PHONE RINGING, how is that not harm? $30K for the treatment center? The cars wrecked? Your mom has to hide her purse if you are still allowed in the house? Your children have bruises on their fists from banging on the bathroom door? I mean, you get the idea. I had to come to terms with the harm that I had done to my family. The last full blown relapse my mom saw tracks on my hand. We were at the airport - she was taking me to Hawaii. Yes, I have a LOT of guilt and a LOT of shame about my drug abuse. One of the ways I can keep it together is remember who I am and what I have done and keep it real. Addicts are stereotyped for a reason-it is true. All I can do now is stay in recovery and make amends for what I have done. After me and my last old man fell out I stayed single. I refuse to put another human being through what I put my family through. I recognize that a lot of folks are not ready to accept the harm that they have done. Wish I could keep fooling myself, but it will prolong my illness. I wish I could say I was a "nice" junkie like some people...but I wasn't. Didn't know any, either, except the one here!

When you speak of the insurance company report, may I ask the content if it is not too upsetting for you to speak about? I thought those people had to be professional. What was your BF on? How old was he? John was 32. He died Christmas 2010.

 

[freddy47]

@Freddygotfingered You are the one that is STUPID and IGNORANT (she stomps feet and clenches her fists, thinking that balls wore as earrings is not a good look) lmao...so THERE!

Lol I didn't say you were ignorant or stupid. I said your generalization of drug addicts are. Fact checking can be helpful sometimes.

 

[Lysis]

When you speak of the insurance company report, may I ask the content if it is not too upsetting for you to speak about? I thought those people had to be professional. What was your BF on? How old was he? John was 32. He died Christmas 2010.

Wow, I just read your post, and I am so sorry. Were you guys dating or were you just friends?

I have a lot of guilt for what happened to my ex (Rob). We met online and it was a crazy attraction. Before he moved here, we met IRL and hung out for a week together. Not really a long time, but I was totally smitten by this guy, and from what his friends told me, he was a changed person after he met me. He owned up to being a recovered drug addict to me. His parents had found him almost dead, and he had gone to the hospital. He was arrested for cooking meth, but he loved his opiates. He basically took anything he could get his hands on. It was 10 years prior to me meeting him, so I didn't really see him as a drug addict, but he had been to jail, been homeless, and redeemed himself and was doing well. He was incredibly smart, and when he moved down here, he went from jobless to making $100k/year as a Linux admin for a billion dollar company. He was doing really well.

Well, he started to act weird and I didn't know what was wrong. I asked him, and he told me he had migraines and was taking medication prescribed by a doctor. His family told me he missed home, and he was getting home sick. We had argued because of the drug use, and he moved out to his own place, and from there, he had full opportunities to abuse drugs. From what his friends said, he knew I wouldn't allow that shit in my house, so he hid his drug use from me, which was the catalyst for the arguments, which led to him moving out. He felt guilt for doing it, and he started abusing drugs with a friend of his who (was told this later) was his drug buddy. I met the guy, and I had no idea. Rob got him a job working with him down here, and his friends later told me this was the guy he did drugs with back in the day.

The police report described how he looked when he died. That was hard. He had lividity, and his eyes had lost color, which I read happens hours later. He had the spit (or whatever you call it) down his face..the stuff that comes up while you are dying. He was lying down in bed just like I know how he likes to sleep. His apartment was a mess. They found weed, coke and Xanax in a bottle that had the label scratched off. His friends told me he got prescription pills from his drug buddy's wife, so I assume that is where the bottle came from. He told me he was getting weed from a friend at work, but he told his friends he got drugs from his neighbor.

The day he died, he showed his drug buddy friend 3 pills. If I remember correctly, they were blue. His friend told the cops when he came back from lunch, he was definitely high. He told his friend he was going to take the last pill that night. I think he had oxy, because he had beer, xanax and these pills that we believed were the end.He built a rack server that night for his business (he owned hack3r .com...the new owner always has a tribute to him on the site). He left a message for his friend that night at around 12am, and it was unintelligible. At that point he had taken too much.

The part that really hurt was his ex GF was mentioned in the report. The naive and hopeful part of me hopes the cop got the details wrong. I'm fueled by the fact that the cop got other parts of what his friend said wrong and parts of what I said were wrong too. He was talking to his ex-GF in utah. She was supposed to come and meet him, but according to his friend, she never came. I think he was torn between home and me, because he told some people we were over, but he would email me and tell me he loves me. He was supposed to come and talk to me the day he died to tell me something huge about himself that he said he needed to tell me. I dont' think it was to go back to this girl, because he wrote how much he loved and missed me, but it is in the back of my mind always. I think he was going to tell me about his relapse, but I'll never really know.

The cop told me the neighbor said he was on the phone about a month prior talking to someone who sounded like his girlfriend. We had been fighting and not talking for a while, so I don't think it was me he was talking to, and that really hurt too. If the neighbor's timeline is wrong, it could have been me, but I'll never really know that either.

I always wanted to call the ex-GF to know. I am pretty sure I have her number. I went so insanely crazy over hurt that I tracked down her number, and I wanted to call and ask her if they were getting back together, but like someone pointed out to me, she probably hates me and would say whatever it takes to hurt me, so it's not a good idea. I still have her cell phone number, and to this day I still want to call her to ask if anything was going on, because he led me to believe that he was sorry for all that had happened and he was going to come over and talk about us and he wanted to fix what was wrong.

I'll never know, and reading all of that in the police report made it 1000x worse.

 

[rocketqueen]

Again, Lysis, I am really sorry. I feel really terrible that you had no idea what you were getting into. An addict is always a chronic liar. Why? Because they have to lie about their use! And why you can't find your camera... Anyhoo, I have a degree in criminal justice/criminology/psychology (Social Sciences) and I have seen bodies and I know what lividity is and what it looks like on a deceased person. It is horrible. The eyes are the worst. Nobody is home anymore. I had to put down my baby, my cat, because she was dying. I couldn't stand looking at her another minute, just lying there, so I took her in. He gave her a barbiturate overdose. It was so quick. I looked in her eyes and she was not there anymore. Another part of me died that day. Even if you love someone so much, nothing you can do can keep them tethered to their physical body. I hope so much that they are Home, all of them. They say the Lords house has many rooms. I hope so. When I think of the people and the animals I have lost I think of that song by Audioslave, "in your House I long to be...I'll wait for you there, like a stone..." Have you heard it?

So, some thoughts about your boyfriend. I am positive that you know, being on Bluelight, that the combination of Xanax/benzos and opioids is often deadly. That would be my guess. Do you know why he passed or what drugs were involved? If you do not, again, that is my guess as to what killed him. That foam/spit you mention, I think that is from pulmonary edema, where one essentially chokes to death on the fluids in their body. They are so sedated they do not wake up. Classic opioid overdose. I know this is cold comfort but he did not suffer. But those of us left behind when a friend/lover dies, we get to suffer, suffer plenty. You mentioned three pills. I promise you that three bars of Xanax is enough to kill someone that is drinking and doing opioids.

I think that if you have lingering questions it would not hurt to contact his...ex-girlfriend. You could start the conversation by saying, "Hi, I would really like to know how you are doing and put this bad blood behind us." If she gets crazy hang up. I think you deserve to know the answers to your questions. But know you could really be hurt by what you hear, Lysis. On the other hand, once police hear the word "drugs" they cease to listen to much of anything because their hatred of drugs is so strong. They get to see up close and personal what drugs do to people on the daily. But you might find a measure of peace or closure if you know the truth or at least y'all forgive each other and move on. There is nothing to fight over - he is gone. Y'all both lost somebody.

My girlfriend started using when she was a young woman. Heroin. She was partying with her boyfriend and his sister one night. Her and her BF's sister passed out together in the same bed. When my GF woke up the next morning, Jane was cold. She was dead. It really does not have to be this way. But hey, according to some you only hurt yourself when you use, right? Riiiiiiiiight...

 

[HighonLife]

nodding out on xanax all day? i dont buy it, he is probably back on opiates stronger than tram.

^+1

 

[axl blaze]

I think I can shed some light into your situation, because it hits pretty close to home

I am an addict. damn, that's still hard to write after all these years. I always think of myself as better than some people, but like rocketqueen implies, it's best to acknowledge things the way they should be

getting clean is hell, but the one thing that did it for me was seeing those around me get hurt from my actions. am I still a junkie, if I care about others? I don't know. but I cared enough about people that when I saw what it was doing to any one of my girlfriends over this period of time (and family, and friends), that over time I realized that if I kept on going down this path I would lose them. and some people, you can't lose

QB - what do I think about your situation? the addict in me is says that he is back on the dope, or at least something significantly stronger than Tramadol. sorry. we're really good at lying

the question for you is how much of this can you let keep up? as someone else said, you need him to truly realize that continuation of his behavior will result in you breaking this shit off

 

[rocketqueen]

@Axl you are an addict in recovery, but when you were using full-force you still cared about people! You just cared about taking care of your habit more. That is addiction for ya! In fact, you cleaned up because you did not want to lose the people you care about.

And I agree - her BF is back in the game.

to the OP: I did not mean to derail your thread, and I apologize. We would love to hear from you, and how things are going.

 

[syktruth]

You people comparing addiction to cancer or diabetes? seriously? thats like an addicts level of thinking to justify being selfish. You dont hurt people with diabetes, you dont hurt people with cancer. unless they are emotionally weak maybe. Addiction is not a disease. Addiction comes from early trauma or being detached from your true core self. Maybe if people would take time meditating and learning themselves to the fullest extent instead of trying to be cool and hip or ladies man... shed some of your fully materialistic false levels of thought and took time to look inside yourself. You wouldn't need a substance to cope with the human disease. Which is the real problem, not the disease of addiction.

Happiness does not come from the physical, nor just spiritual but a balance of both. When your deepest thought through the day is if your show tonight is going to have enough drama and do everything in your power to distract yourself so you arent burdened with those terrible moments of... AHH boredom omg im talking to myself this isnt good need to call someone and distract myself! That is the real addiction, or disease.

 

[littlepenguin]

You people comparing addiction to cancer or diabetes? seriously? thats like an addicts level of thinking to justify being selfish. You dont hurt people with diabetes, you dont hurt people with cancer. unless they are emotionally weak maybe. Addiction is not a disease. Addiction comes from early trauma or being detached from your true core self. Maybe if people would take time meditating and learning themselves to the fullest extent instead of trying to be cool and hip or ladies man... shed some of your fully materialistic false levels of thought and took time to look inside yourself. You wouldn't need a substance to cope with the human disease. Which is the real problem, not the disease of addiction.

Happiness does not come from the physical, nor just spiritual but a balance of both. When your deepest thought through the day is if your show tonight is going to have enough drama and do everything in your power to distract yourself so you arent burdened with those terrible moments of... AHH boredom omg im talking to myself this isnt good need to call someone and distract myself! That is the real addiction, or disease.

uhhhh what? just - no.

The actual new definition of addiction by the American Society of Addiction Medicine-

Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Addiction affects neurotransmission and interactions within reward structures of the brain, including the nucleus accumbens, anterior cingulate cortex, basal forebrain and amygdala, such that motivational hierarchies are altered and addictive behaviors, which may or may not include alcohol and other drug use, supplant healthy, self-care related behaviors. Addiction also affects neurotransmission and interactions between cortical and hippocampal circuits and brain reward structures, such that the memory of previous exposures to rewards (such as food, sex, alcohol and other drugs) leads to a biological and behavioral response to external cues, in turn triggering craving and/or engagement in addictive behaviors.

Drug addiction is a brain disease. Although initial drug use might be voluntary, once addiction develops this control is markedly disrupted.


From the NIDA (National Institute on Drug Abuse):

Drug addiction shares many features with other chronic illnesses, including a tendency to run in families (heritability), an onset and course that is influenced by environmental conditions and behavior, and the ability to respond to appropriate treatment, which may include long-term lifestyle modification.
Addiction is a chronic disease similar to other chronic diseases such as type II diabetes, cancer, and cardiovascular disease.
Human studies of addictive behaviors have clearly implicated both environmental and genetic influences, as well as interactions between the two. While genetics play a major role in defining who we are, the environment in which we are raised is just as influential.
Evidence from adoption and twin studies demonstrate that addiction, like other chronic diseases, is a heritable disorder and that genes play a role in vulnerability to addiction. Genes can also play a role in protecting individuals from addiction.
Sometimes people do choose behaviors that have undesirable effects. Personal responsibility and behavioral change are major components of any credible treatment program. Addiction, like heart disease, cancers, and type II diabetes, is a real and complex disease.


And how the hell can you NOT compare adult-onset diabetes with addiction??? Diabetes II is something that people DEVELOP ON THEIR OWN because of BAD DIETARY CHOICES. Nobody ASKS to get diabetes. Nobody ASKS to be an addict.

I shouldn't speak for others, but I am pretty sure that I'd speak for a good chunk of the people here, when I say that we are not trying to be 'cool and hip or ladies man..blah blah blah materialistic/false levels of thought...' who the F are you to assume that we are materialistic? How the hell would you know if we need or don't need a "substance to cope with the human disease?" Do you have any idea about any of our lives? What we've been through? FUCK NO, you don't, and you never will.

 

[rocketqueen]

@LittlePenguin, I applause your post. Very thoughtful, and very well-written.
You state, "I shouldn't speak for others..." I am comfortable with you speaking for me on this particular discussion.


@syktruth, you speak of why you consider people started using, which is "trauma," "being detached from core self," and trying to be "cool." I can get on board with those being a couple of the reasons some people start using drugs. I also agree that full-blown addicts are selfish. Heck, I even know people that don't use drugs that are selfish! How 'bout that?

Anyhoo, we VOLUNTARILY started using for whatever reason, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. Then some of us, for whatever reason, were unable to stop using. Our brains were predisposed to the disease of addiction, and the chemicals in the drugs hijacked our brains, enslaving us.

So, since assigning blame seems important to you, consider this: it IS our fault we started using. However, it is not our fault that we did not realize that we had the black mark of predisposition to addiction. I started using to be "cool," to escape, boredom, peer pressure, mental illness, poor coping skills, self-loathing, and an inability to process grief. So while others I partied with could walk away when it was done, I was not able to. I had inadvertently and unknowingly activated the beast. And once fed, the beast is *always* hungry.

So, people with chronic diseases, if they have any fault in their disease, it is not a disease? Is that what you mean? Diabetes? It is your fault - you should eat better and exercise more. Heart disease? You should have taken better care of yourself i.e. diet and exercise. Epilepsy? You shouldn't be watching TV or video games that trigger your spells. Lung CANCER? Shouldn't have smoked. HIV/AIDS/HCV/herpes, etc.? Shouldn't have been screwing around/sharing needles. I can find a behavior for almost any disease that possibly contributed to the disease/the severity of it.

So addiction is not a disease in your mind. You seem to be saying it is just people trying to be cool/can't cope with reality? Or what? What do you think "addiction" is? A choice? Psychological deficiencies? Rampant materialism?

I can't imagine a human being in this world that enjoys making their families suffer, abuse/neglect/forsake their children, loses their freedom, performs degrading/unwanted sex acts, sticks a needle in their arm, puts a gun in someone's face, goes homeless, loses every tooth in their head, risks arrest EVERY SINGLE DAY, give their vehicle to a drug dealer for the day (or sells it for and 8 ball), etc. because they are bored. Their brain has been hijacked thus their inability to control their behavior - they are shells, slaves.

This utter loss of control over one's behavior suggests, at least to me, that there is something going on besides boredom or selfishness.

 

[Busty St Clare]

So what if a scientific institute now catagorises addiction as a disease of the brain? How do you explain chronic addicts who after years of suffering are now drug free? Have their brains been cured or changed from the time they were addicted? Have some magical drug or surgical technique been employed to heal them? No, just as for every one else it takes will power and a set of personal values to quit or at least use moderately. Sure it is hard work, and not everyone is successful the first time but by ignoring personal responsibility to your own drug use is insulting to the rest of society who choose not to be an addict or choose to use in healthy moderation.

 

[littlepenguin]

So what if a scientific institute now catagorises addiction as a disease of the brain? How do you explain chronic addicts who after years of suffering are now drug free? Have their brains been cured or changed from the time they were addicted? Have some magical drug or surgical technique been employed to heal them? No, just as for every one else it takes will power and a set of personal values to quit or at least use moderately. Sure it is hard work, and not everyone is successful the first time but by ignoring personal responsibility to your own drug use is insulting to the rest of society who choose not to be an addict or choose to use in healthy moderation.

I personally don't ignore my own responsibility for using drugs. I am aware of the choices that I have made. I believe that with anything in my life. Everyone can choose exactly what they want to do/think/feel/see/believe at any time. I control me, nobody else. I could quit right now if I *wanted to,* but I don't. I fully agree with you that it takes willpower and work to quit. However, I get irritated when people pass off addiction as something you should just "get off your ass and quit." Just like those who have an eating disorder. When I struggled, do you know how many times my dad said, "why don't you just fucking eat something?" Well golly, if it was that simple, we wouldn't be in this predicament now, would we? I don't see anyone ridiculing people with diabetes II, yet, as I said earlier, that is a disease that is brought on by personal choices, perhaps a food addiction. Now, if these people lose weight and eat strictly and correctly and also have willpower and use hard work, they can bring their blood sugar levels back to normal. Same with hypertension. Unless it's purely genetic, one can lower their blood pressure with exercise and dietary changes. So, do we treat those with diabetes and hypertension the same way that we do an addict? No. Because of the social stigma behind it. It's bologna.

 

[rocketqueen]

So what if a scientific institute now catagorises addiction as a disease of the brain? How do you explain chronic addicts who after years of suffering are now drug free? Have their brains been cured or changed from the time they were addicted? Have some magical drug or surgical technique been employed to heal them? No, just as for every one else it takes will power and a set of personal values to quit or at least use moderately. Sure it is hard work, and not everyone is successful the first time but by ignoring personal responsibility to your own drug use is insulting to the rest of society who choose not to be an addict or choose to use in healthy moderation.

@Busty St. Clare, because addicts can/have ARRESTED the disease of addiction does NOT mean that they are free from the disease. It only means that your addiction is lying in wait. It takes a set of personal values to pull up from drugs once addicted? Where, pray tell, does one get personal values from? When we are in full blown addiction I believe that we are stagnant. Emotional cripples as in no emotional growth whatsoever. So where did the addict suddenly acquire personal values?

Then, you mention the old stand by: will power. I DID choose to use...at first, and I accept 100% that it is MY FAULT I SUFFER. But I really wish I hadda known, when I started using, that I was unleashing a force so evil, so despicable, so powerful that it would drive me to the brink; that I would sacrifice everything to a God I had no knowledge as to the nature of. So, while evil was rising, I was falling, but did not really notice how bad things had gotten 'cause my judgment was...fuked.

The answer is always simple when one is standing on the outside looking in: just say no, just quit, just stop what you are doing.

Maybe it is that simple. Maybe we love the pain, the heartbreak, the chaos, the destruction, we love to suffer, we love to make other people suffer, we DESERVE to suffer...we are simply deficient dirtbags with no scruples, no values, no control, morally bankrupt, weak emotional basketcases. We are the Lost, the Walking Dead, the Judged. Maybe we should be quarantined away from proper society until we decide to behave.

Seriously, though, when addicts deny their responsibility, their ownership in their addiction, I will admit I am not too slow to let that BS pass for truth. Maybe it is not my fault I have "the addict gene," but it damn sure is my problem. Thankfully, there were those that only saw a human being suffering and decided that placing blame was less important than showing me another way.

 

[badandwicked]

@Busty St. Clare, because addicts can/have ARRESTED the disease of addiction does NOT mean that they are free from the disease. It only means that your addiction is lying in wait. It takes a set of personal values to pull up from drugs once addicted? Where, pray tell, does one get personal values from? When we are in full blown addiction I believe that we are stagnant. Emotional cripples as in no emotional growth whatsoever. So where did the addict suddenly acquire personal values?

Then, you mention the old stand by: will power. I DID choose to use...at first, and I accept 100% that it is MY FAULT I SUFFER. But I really wish I hadda known, when I started using, that I was unleashing a force so evil, so despicable, so powerful that it would drive me to the brink; that I would sacrifice everything to a God I had no knowledge as to the nature of. So, while evil was rising, I was falling, but did not really notice how bad things had gotten 'cause my judgment was...fuked.

The answer is always simple when one is standing on the outside looking in: just say no, just quit, just stop what you are doing.

Maybe it is that simple. Maybe we love the pain, the heartbreak, the chaos, the destruction, we love to suffer, we love to make other people suffer, we DESERVE to suffer...we are simply deficient dirtbags with no scruples, no values, no control, morally bankrupt, weak emotional basketcases. We are the Lost, the Walking Dead, the Judged. Maybe we should be quarantined away from proper society until we decide to behave.

Seriously, though, when addicts deny their responsibility, their ownership in their addiction, I will admit I am not too slow to let that BS pass for truth. Maybe it is not my fault I have "the addict gene," but it damn sure is my problem. Thankfully, there were those that only saw a human being suffering and decided that placing blame was less important than showing me another way.

one of the best posts on the subject I've read

 

[Busty St Clare]

I personally don't ignore my own responsibility for using drugs. I am aware of the choices that I have made. I believe that with anything in my life. Everyone can choose exactly what they want to do/think/feel/see/believe at any time. I control me, nobody else. I could quit right now if I *wanted to,* but I don't. I fully agree with you that it takes willpower and work to quit. However, I get irritated when people pass off addiction as something you should just "get off your ass and quit." Just like those who have an eating disorder. When I struggled, do you know how many times my dad said, "why don't you just fucking eat something?" Well golly, if it was that simple, we wouldn't be in this predicament now, would we? I don't see anyone ridiculing people with diabetes II, yet, as I said earlier, that is a disease that is brought on by personal choices, perhaps a food addiction. Now, if these people lose weight and eat strictly and correctly and also have willpower and use hard work, they can bring their blood sugar levels back to normal. Same with hypertension. Unless it's purely genetic, one can lower their blood pressure with exercise and dietary changes. So, do we treat those with diabetes and hypertension the same way that we do an addict? No. Because of the social stigma behind it. It's bologna.

I don't know where you live but around here no one feels pity for the over weight dude with the shocking diet who suffers from diabetes. Neither does the two packs a day smoker who develops emphysema or lung cancer. The original tact of this thread was directed by comments comparing an addict's drug use to his girlfriend with epilepsy, which is a long fucking way from self affliction.

Too many addicts fail to take personal responsibilty for their affliction, ignoring the fact that no one becomes addicted the first hit. It may be a grey line that you cross between user and addict but there still exists a time when bad decisions were made. Choosing between a good time and your normal responsiblities is something that all drug users must make, addicts cant cry a river if they cross this line on their own.