Boycott Singapore - Van's unfair sentance

[THR!]

Plus, it's not too late. He hasn't been murdered yet.

 

[pete_gasparino]

This has less to do with justice than compassion and ultimate authority:

Personally I don't think it matters whether Van Nguyen had the most malicious intent in bringing 400 grams of heroin into Singapore. Even if he somehow intended on hooking in 26,000 fresh faced Singaporians, or was personally concerned with seeing 26,000 overdoses, the thing about it is, that no government should really be allowed to take an individuals life, regardless of their origin or their crime.

I don't know why he was transporting heroin: maybe he wanted to pay off his debts. Maybe he wanted to make some money for himself. But it doesn't really matter, as I said....no one should be allowed, by whatever law, to take someone elses life. Even if the 'one' taking the life is actually an organisation, a government, a prison system.

I could never understand it, anyway. Who is prepared to spend a life in Changi prison, but not prepared to die? Has there ever been a drug smuggler, anywhere in the world, in the history of time, who was undeterred by a life sentence but deterred by the death penalty?

If Singapore was really concerned with preventing the spread and flow of drug use, they'd be well advised to look at and cut funding of Burmese leaders and the heroin factories that operate within that country:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,17336571,00.html

http://www.singapore-window.org/804caq9.htm

The sad and unfortunate fact is, that they're not. Maybe they just want to appear high-minded at the expense of people like Van Nguyen. Perhaps there is a reason that defies these contradictory premises and relies on some conviction.

"Van Nguyen is born in a refugee camp in Thailand after his mother fled Vietnam as a refugee...[t]his is the sort of person that is executed in most situations around the world in the US and other countries, and I think that is why people have sort of seen the futility of it."

This was a quote from Nguyen's parish priest Peter Norden, and I think its pretty much correct. Just like with the sniffer dogs, the ones who take the risk hauling the gear into these countries with such vicious policies, obviously aren't the Godfathers of the trade. Take a look at the Bali Nine, for whom a similar fate possibly awaits: they're none of them exactly drug kingpins. In fact, they're all kids, not far past my own age. Criminal geniuses?

Maybe, but its more likely they are just the same as you or me, victims of circumstance, and they did something for which there was a risk involved, and they drew the dud hand.

They shouldn't be killed for what they did - and in a perfect world they wouldn't be punished, but paid, and there'd be no need for the gangsters and the bullshit.

No one has the right to take anyone elses life, not even such hard, but ultimately hypocritical establishments, as the Singaporian government most certainly is.

I'd say most governments are, to some extent, including the US, who are nearing 1000 people killed. In Singapore they say its over 400, but can't be sure, because the exact figures are never and probably will never be released.

But what I want to know, some day, is how many of those 400 were actually innocent, and was taking all those lives worth it, and how many crimes did it prevent?

 

[potato]

^for the last time - if it were me, i would take responsibility for my actions.

i even said i'd bring my own rope 8)

KB. Next time you are in possesion of illicits, I am going to inform the police. That way you can take responsibility for your actions. Sounds fair OK? PM me if you dont like the sound of this idea, but by all rights you should cos it's what you've been spouting for the entire thread.


BTW I have reported you for some of your antics in this thread. You're lucky that most of the mods have become involved in the debate and there's no-one objective enough left to admonish you as you should be. Stop shit stirring and aggravating people. We know your opinion by now, if you dont have anything new to say other than narky side-comments, dont say anything.


KB, KB, KB...
This time you've let your insecurities that are your one and only failing point (you're a lovely person generally!) overcome you. Stop trying to be 'BIG', or 'SMART'. People that know you see through all that, and like you for the person that you ARE, not the one that you try to be.

Seriously, PM me.
Love Ben

 

[endlesseulogy]

I'm going to stand by my original statements regarding this issue...

I'm still of the opinion, as keystroke and others have also asserted, that it was his own fault he was caught and punished by the Singaporean government.
He did the crime. He does whatever time or suffers whatever penalty the goverment have in place for these cases.

That said, I could never pretend to say I am supportive of the death penalty. Not in any way shape or form, for so many reasons that have been posted.

To me, these are two seperate issues we're trying to grapple with.
1] A man's sentence to a crime he committed. As stated earlier, he did the crime. He pays. Case closed.

2] The abolition of the death penalty in all parts of the world. This needs to be addressed at a global level and widely debated. It's clear that it serves little to no purpose and does not act as a deterrant.

The two issues should be dealt with very seperately. In my mind [and apologies if this comes across as harsh or unfeeling] it's too late for Van.
That said, hopefully the world will take another look at this issue and decide once and for all this type of punishment in this day and age is quite simply not on.

Hopefully future lives will be saved. .

I find it very hard how you are able to so casually defend the position of the Government of Singapore then turn around and oppose the death penalty? Surely all death penalty cases are therefore full of people who "do the crime and pay for it". These are NOT seperate issues. They are both very much connected.


All those interested in the Amnesty International gathering tonight, it starts at 7:30 at fed square then there will be a silent march down st.kilda road to Queen Victoria Gardens.

 

[silvia saint]

don't forget for those with a heart...

he will be executed on Friday at 6am, Singapore time, or 9am in NSW, Victoria and Tasmania, 8am in Queensland, 8.30am in South Australia, 7.30am in the Northern Territory and 6am in Western Australia.

a prayer, a minutes silence, or just sparing a thought would be considerate.

 

[endlesseulogy]

KB i find it very hard to understand what motivates a person to use a thread about a man's life to voice their insecurities.

You see this as some sort of popularity contest between black and white , left and right, science and subjectivity. Just as maddog said, like a video game. Its not. The absolutle paranoia you seem to have for humanitarian ideas is pretty silly. Stop playing this silly game whereby you view compassion as 'uncool'. We ARE NOT in high school anymore.

As for everyone else, I thank you for participating in this thread. Much has been discussed and some very insightful and inspiring posts have been made by various members.

Even if Ngyuen looses his battle, please, keep fighting, keep remembering why you are pissed off at this moment. Don't let it be in vain, or because the person was a local, looked pretty. had a nice mum, whatever ... keep in mind your reasons of why you think it is an ugly part of humanity that public executions exist.

 

[KemicalBurn]

KB. Next time you are in possesion of illicits, I am going to inform the police. That way you can take responsibility for your actions. Sounds fair OK? PM me if you dont like the sound of this idea, but by all rights you should cos it's what you've been spouting for the entire thread.

Go ahead - lol. Ive weighed the consequences of my use with the consequences of getting caught. This has been something ive been prepared to accept. and if any drug user hasnt come to grips with this possibilty, then they should stop right now and think long and hard before they next use.

(you're a lovely person generally!)

LIES! ()

Ive sent you a PM with a subject that we cant discuss in the open (a big faux par for a mod to do that), but im open for discussion on that particular topic

Stop playing this silly game whereby you view compassion as 'uncool'.

Ive made my point to death (no pun intended), he made a choice. he did. no-one else made it for him.

whatever and ever, amen.

 

[THR!]

I myself will observe a minutes silence.

As a person I take pride in the fact that I am accepting of all races and religions regardless of whether I agree with their perspective. I strongly believe that no individual or collective should be able to impinge on the rights of others. And that is basically what is happening here. They are taking his life. Killing him. For what? Drugs? It's just wrong.

I am finding it rather difficult to not hate the Singaporean government and people for their actions. I have mentioned that I am disgusted, and I am, but I cannot believe a population would be so supportive of a barbaric tradition. I don't like hating things but at this time I cannot feel anything but total resentment.

He does not deserve to die.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT
I'm going to stand by my original statements regarding this issue...

I'm still of the opinion, as keystroke and others have also asserted, that it was his own fault he was caught and punished by the Singaporean government.
He did the crime. He does whatever time or suffers whatever penalty the goverment have in place for these cases.

That said, I could never pretend to say I am supportive of the death penalty. Not in any way shape or form, for so many reasons that have been posted.

To me, these are two seperate issues we're trying to grapple with.
1] A man's sentence to a crime he committed. As stated earlier, he did the crime. He pays. Case closed.

2] The abolition of the death penalty in all parts of the world. This needs to be addressed at a global level and widely debated. It's clear that it serves little to no purpose and does not act as a deterrant.

The two issues should be dealt with very seperately. In my mind [and apologies if this comes across as harsh or unfeeling] it's too late for Van.
That said, hopefully the world will take another look at this issue and decide once and for all this type of punishment in this day and age is quite simply not on.

Hopefully future lives will be saved. .

*edit* no more personal attacks
See post
-kat

 

[katmeow]

even if they did let Van off the hook and just gave him jail time, how many other families would be absolutely shattered because their daughter/son has been executed for the same crime?

Errmm, by that logic, I should be shattered everytime someone gets resuscitated from a heart attack because I lost a family in that way.

I'd think that anyone who has been through the horrific experience of losing a family member via the death penalty would gladly see this form of punishment removed from 'justice' systems the world over.

I'm going to stand by my original statements regarding this issue...

I'm still of the opinion, as keystroke and others have also asserted, that it was his own fault he was caught and punished by the Singaporean government.
He did the crime. He does whatever time or suffers whatever penalty the goverment have in place for these cases.

That said, I could never pretend to say I am supportive of the death penalty. Not in any way shape or form, for so many reasons that have been posted.

To me, these are two seperate issues we're trying to grapple with.
1] A man's sentence to a crime he committed. As stated earlier, he did the crime. He pays. Case closed.

2] The abolition of the death penalty in all parts of the world. This needs to be addressed at a global level and widely debated. It's clear that it serves little to no purpose and does not act as a deterrant.

The two issues should be dealt with very seperately. In my mind [and apologies if this comes across as harsh or unfeeling] it's too late for Van.
That said, hopefully the world will take another look at this issue and decide once and for all this type of punishment in this day and age is quite simply not on.

Hopefully future lives will be saved. .

I don't understand how you can say the two issues should be addressed separately? Yes, we are talking about the sentence a man has received for a crime he committed, but the sentence is Death. If you oppose the death penalty in all cases, you must also find it abominable in this one.

 

[AussieRaver]

Hmm no offence, but i see it as you do the crime, you do the time, because if they let off 1 australian for death penalty, whats it going to say to all the other people who tried to smuggle drugs and had gotten shot, He would of known the full risk of smuggling drugs back into to australia, i sympathise with his family, but those are there laws.

 

[keystroke]

Errmm, by that logic, I should be shattered everytime someone gets resuscitated from a heart attack because I lost a family in that way.

I'd think that anyone who has been through the horrific experience of losing a family member via the death penalty would gladly see this form of punishment removed from 'justice' systems the world over.

how is that the same? your family member didn't decide to have a heart attack, it just happened.

and how is it fair to kill hundreds of heroin traffickers, then say "oh don't worry about it Van, we'll give you 6 months in jail instead" of course families of executed men would be outraged.

that's like murdering someone here and getting 40 years. then two weeks later someone commits the exact same crime and gets 40 hours community service.

 

[THR!]

No, it's not the same. The difference being that most people here recognise being murdered for committing that crime is completely unwarranted. The families of executed men would be happy for them that they haven't had to live with the injustice that was dealt to them.

Plus, six months? Where did you pull that magical number from? As if they'd ever commute the death penalty for six months jail.

You're warped.

 

[keystroke]

it was a random figure, no matter how many months he would be in jail families would still be fucking upset that their son received an "unfair" punishment whilst Van gets away lightly.

 

[Mary Poppins]

as everyone has pointed out - yes families would be upset their son/daughter didn't receive a jail sentence over a death penalty, but they would be happy that the laws had been revoked, and other families wouldn't have to endure the suffering they did.

that is the most ridiculous argument that i've heard for keeping the death sentence yet. that other families would be upset if someone else didn't receive it?

what the fuck, seriously?
so laws shouldn't develop just because other people have been tried under them? how is society supposed to evolve? by your reasoning keystroke, people in australia should still be hanged for crimes ----- because when they stopped doing that, there would have been people in the overlap who had family members executed, faced with the trials of people who WEREN"T going to be executed.

 

[keystroke]

if you read what I wrote, I said in THIS CASE.

the guy has already been convicted and sentanced to death. IF they want to change the laws after his death, so be it. until the law is changed though, it should be an equal punishment for everybody.

 

[Doodle]

it was a random figure, no matter how many months he would be in jail families would still be fucking upset that their son received an "unfair" punishment whilst Van gets away lightly.

That is complete anus.

I heard the mother of an ex junkie on talk back radio this morning who hanged himself due to his drug induced depression. She was against the hanging of drug traffickers as it only adds to the unnecessary deaths caused from drug abuse.

I think families of other convicted and executed drug traffickers would feel the same.

 

[THR!]

I literally cannot comprehend how you can think like that keystroke. No family that has endured a son, mother, father, brother, sister, friend, whatever, being executed would feel anything but compassion towards a family in a similar situation. It is completely retarded if you think they would want to put someone else through that for reasons of equality.

A truly retarded outlook.

 

[keystroke]

if you got 40 years in jail and someone else committed the same crime under the exact same law at the same time and got 4 months, would you be upset?

if you say no you're full of shit.

 

[THR!]

Of course I would be upset. But there is a difference between being upset and wishing that they suffer the same fate. That's just spiteful. If you want to lead a life full of spite, be my fucking guest.

Plus, your examples are always in the extreme. I think that is indicative of your ridiculous attitude.