Bluelight's image & what you can do to help...
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jakoz
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It's an IRC channel for crying out loud.
The names of IRC channel's denote common interests. The common interest of the channel members (40-50 per night) is undoubtedly Bluelight.
Not only that, but from the thread in here advertising the channel, it's totally obvious it's a social thing. On top of that, the channel is secret, meaning that the only way people would find it is through the above thread.
The names of IRC channel's denote common interests. The common interest of the channel members (40-50 per night) is undoubtedly Bluelight.
Not only that, but from the thread in here advertising the channel, it's totally obvious it's a social thing. On top of that, the channel is secret, meaning that the only way people would find it is through the above thread.
BigTrancer
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By this logic ... (BL = Harm minimisation only... which I agree with...) all Bluelight social forums should be moved offsite and divorced from Bluelight also? Obviously this is unworkable, and we hit a wall of definitions and conflicting purposes for each of the forums.
I propose the following directions/purposes, which are essentially already in place - and could be workably adhered to:
Aus BL Drug Discussion: HM Focus, No social bullshit. High level chemical/medical/biological discussions, entry level drug information and HM techniques. Information on testing, postloading, safer practices, avoiding difficult situations, what to do if something goes wrong, etc. Access to information for all comers, non-judgemental advice on chemical/health issues, from alcohol to heroin and all things in between. If it's not related to drugs, drug health or drug discussion in general, then it belongs somewhere else.
Aus BL Social: Social interaction for Bluelight people, drug culture, rave culture, general social outlet, but not necessarily personal interaction. Stuff that is appreciated by a *wider audience*. Keep personal stuff to email or IRC. If it's not applicable to all BLs, then lose it.
Aus BL Events: The real world middle-ground between the general entertainment nature of social, and the interpersonal nature of IRC. Parties, meetups, reviews, what's on, who's going, how much and when/where?
Aus BL IRC: Freeform dynamic content, personal interaction, one on one conversations in real time, 'get to know people', spontaneous non-event meetups, scattered recovery session chatter, Drug/Health Q&A any time regardless of authority of answers - (people can assist in BL/erowid/net searches if they don't know the answers), everything that social doesn't want/need to be... if it doesn't need to be saved for posterity for everyone on BL to read, then take it to IRC.
ON ALL FORUMS: BL RULE NUMERO UNO IN EFFECT: NO SOLICITING ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES.
BigTrancer
I propose the following directions/purposes, which are essentially already in place - and could be workably adhered to:
Aus BL Drug Discussion: HM Focus, No social bullshit. High level chemical/medical/biological discussions, entry level drug information and HM techniques. Information on testing, postloading, safer practices, avoiding difficult situations, what to do if something goes wrong, etc. Access to information for all comers, non-judgemental advice on chemical/health issues, from alcohol to heroin and all things in between. If it's not related to drugs, drug health or drug discussion in general, then it belongs somewhere else.
Aus BL Social: Social interaction for Bluelight people, drug culture, rave culture, general social outlet, but not necessarily personal interaction. Stuff that is appreciated by a *wider audience*. Keep personal stuff to email or IRC. If it's not applicable to all BLs, then lose it.
Aus BL Events: The real world middle-ground between the general entertainment nature of social, and the interpersonal nature of IRC. Parties, meetups, reviews, what's on, who's going, how much and when/where?
Aus BL IRC: Freeform dynamic content, personal interaction, one on one conversations in real time, 'get to know people', spontaneous non-event meetups, scattered recovery session chatter, Drug/Health Q&A any time regardless of authority of answers - (people can assist in BL/erowid/net searches if they don't know the answers), everything that social doesn't want/need to be... if it doesn't need to be saved for posterity for everyone on BL to read, then take it to IRC.
ON ALL FORUMS: BL RULE NUMERO UNO IN EFFECT: NO SOLICITING ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES.
BigTrancer
SupaDiscoBreaka
Bluelighter
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Since IRC channels are so expensive to start up could we split the main channel into two?
#bluelight (Harm minimisation)
#bluelightsocial (Gossip Maximisation)
Therefore if an excellent person wants to join up to IRC goodness they will see the harm minimisation side first(I don't care if it is empty as long as it is taken seriously)... then they'll get to the depraved side.
/me thinks "Didn't this get tried before?"
------------------
I WAS ONLY IN THERE TO ASK DIRECTIONS OUT OF THERE
#bluelight (Harm minimisation)
#bluelightsocial (Gossip Maximisation)
Therefore if an excellent person wants to join up to IRC goodness they will see the harm minimisation side first(I don't care if it is empty as long as it is taken seriously)... then they'll get to the depraved side.
/me thinks "Didn't this get tried before?"
------------------
I WAS ONLY IN THERE TO ASK DIRECTIONS OUT OF THERE
anfalicious
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I agree with BT 99%, one exception:
If it's not applicable to all BLs, then lose it.
Not all, just MOST... Pedantic aren't I
SDB: that idea, IMO, would be pointless. IRC should just be left for the mindless social crap that doesn't belong on the website. If people want HM on IRC, all they have to do is ask, or use the webpage. Anyways, there wouldn't be enough operators to keep control of it. (and please oh please don't make me use another channel, 3 is the maximum my brain can take).
Pleonastic
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All this discussion isn't going to change anything though because we already have an established culture which took time to build. Tweaking it all the time will just confuse people and turn them away, which would ruin everything because bluelight is built on the people not the order and specific technical definitions of the focus. I think the way everything is currently set up works really well, and there isn't much that you could possibly do to make it any better without risking losing what we've got. If it aint broke, don't fix it.
The HM message gets across well in all forums, and people that only ever post in social still pick up the principles. A lot of bluelighters might not act safe in real life, but they know the theory and probably act safer than they would if it wasn't for bluelight. Obviously there are exceptions, and those people shouldn't call themselves blueighters. But the positive people far outweigh the negative now I think. Maybe I just don't expose myself to the drug pigs anymore and my opinion has softened though - who knows...
As for the general image - my opinion on that has changed a bit. Now I say "fuckit, who cares what people think". If they think we get the good drugs, then they might come on here to find out and acidentally learn something in the process. If they want to chat with other ravers about getting trashed, they'll come on here and discover that's not what it's all about. It reminds me of a tyre commercial - "If it only saves you once a year, it's a good year"...
The HM message gets across well in all forums, and people that only ever post in social still pick up the principles. A lot of bluelighters might not act safe in real life, but they know the theory and probably act safer than they would if it wasn't for bluelight. Obviously there are exceptions, and those people shouldn't call themselves blueighters. But the positive people far outweigh the negative now I think. Maybe I just don't expose myself to the drug pigs anymore and my opinion has softened though - who knows...
As for the general image - my opinion on that has changed a bit. Now I say "fuckit, who cares what people think". If they think we get the good drugs, then they might come on here to find out and acidentally learn something in the process. If they want to chat with other ravers about getting trashed, they'll come on here and discover that's not what it's all about. It reminds me of a tyre commercial - "If it only saves you once a year, it's a good year"...
SupaDiscoBreaka
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anfalacious: point taken
Jurasic Slap Ass
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Awesome topic!! It's good to see some real debate and real life topics discussed. Bigups to rayda and everyone else speakin truth.
I recall my first encounters with bluelight - I'v only been registered a little while but been readin it for 'bout 2 years now. My first impression was what a great sight to promote somethin positiv. My second thought was 'christ there's a lot of pill monkeys out there, all yammerin an makin no sense'.
ok, fair enuff, ya can't keep it real 24-7. And a lot of ppl don't want to. However I'd like to raise a couple of issues: (sorry 'bout big thread, but pls stay with me)
1. Why bother keeping it real? Why bother pursuing a positiv image in drug-use culture? One main reason I can see is politiks (yeah, I know, no religion or politics at the table!) But for real - Politics is something EVERYONE on this site battles - the politiks that creates laws branding drug users as criminals. And there's an interesting development recently. I am currently working within Drug & Alcohol as a human service worker, and one thing we are discovering is chinks in the armor of the war on drugs (yeah, Johnny would love to see it back in Oz). I remember a couple of years ago a new years on the Gold Coast (where 90% of ppl usually get arrested on new years (Well- maybe exaggerating, but a lot!)) Where a beach rave was organised, police estimated a LOT of substances, and there was NO arrests. And THIS is the kind of image that is going to send out respect. We're beginning to see (Slowly!) police attitudes changing. Sure, it may not be apparent to the everyday user (if you're caught with substances you'll STILL be arrested - duh!), But it is within an image of responsible drug use and knowledge that everyday people's beliefs will change. Within my work I talk to a lot of groups about drug use (ie parents, general community, Emergency services, doctors, etc), and everytime I sprout the same kind of info - that your average raver knows more about the SPECIFIC effects of ecstacy than THE HEALTH PROFFESIONALS THAT SHOULD KNOW!!! I feel that we are a generation that is advancing faster that THOSE THAT ARE SUPPOSE TO BE IN THE KNOW - and if we keep doing this RESPONSIBLY, maybe those with authority will back off ... just a little bit ... This is what I dream of.
And Secondly - I've noticed a lot of anti setiment towards "beer-swilling-chick-groping-and-fight-starting" individuals, and it seems to be the reason a lot of ppl started into this scene. Aren't drug pigs the same, just using different substances and acting out in different environments? Come on people - YOU ARE NOT CHILDREN ... YOU ARE BETTER THAN THIS.
Demand Respect!! ... and goddamn it act in a way that promotes it.
I recall my first encounters with bluelight - I'v only been registered a little while but been readin it for 'bout 2 years now. My first impression was what a great sight to promote somethin positiv. My second thought was 'christ there's a lot of pill monkeys out there, all yammerin an makin no sense'.
ok, fair enuff, ya can't keep it real 24-7. And a lot of ppl don't want to. However I'd like to raise a couple of issues: (sorry 'bout big thread, but pls stay with me)
1. Why bother keeping it real? Why bother pursuing a positiv image in drug-use culture? One main reason I can see is politiks (yeah, I know, no religion or politics at the table!) But for real - Politics is something EVERYONE on this site battles - the politiks that creates laws branding drug users as criminals. And there's an interesting development recently. I am currently working within Drug & Alcohol as a human service worker, and one thing we are discovering is chinks in the armor of the war on drugs (yeah, Johnny would love to see it back in Oz). I remember a couple of years ago a new years on the Gold Coast (where 90% of ppl usually get arrested on new years (Well- maybe exaggerating, but a lot!)) Where a beach rave was organised, police estimated a LOT of substances, and there was NO arrests. And THIS is the kind of image that is going to send out respect. We're beginning to see (Slowly!) police attitudes changing. Sure, it may not be apparent to the everyday user (if you're caught with substances you'll STILL be arrested - duh!), But it is within an image of responsible drug use and knowledge that everyday people's beliefs will change. Within my work I talk to a lot of groups about drug use (ie parents, general community, Emergency services, doctors, etc), and everytime I sprout the same kind of info - that your average raver knows more about the SPECIFIC effects of ecstacy than THE HEALTH PROFFESIONALS THAT SHOULD KNOW!!! I feel that we are a generation that is advancing faster that THOSE THAT ARE SUPPOSE TO BE IN THE KNOW - and if we keep doing this RESPONSIBLY, maybe those with authority will back off ... just a little bit ... This is what I dream of.
And Secondly - I've noticed a lot of anti setiment towards "beer-swilling-chick-groping-and-fight-starting" individuals, and it seems to be the reason a lot of ppl started into this scene. Aren't drug pigs the same, just using different substances and acting out in different environments? Come on people - YOU ARE NOT CHILDREN ... YOU ARE BETTER THAN THIS.
Demand Respect!! ... and goddamn it act in a way that promotes it.
BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
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^ Fuckin WORD.
Good post! Lead by example...
Some people may feel these posts are unfairly directed at them, or unfairly aimed in general and that Bluelight posters aren't the ones that need reminding on how to act. Maybe that's true, but as BL grows, surely the representation of BL as a cross-section of the community grows too. If people feel indignant reading the above and think that neither they, nor any of their friends fits that description as part of the problem, then great! But by the same token they can still be part of the solution anyway by educating themselves, and promoting responsible use and harm minimisation, as they are sensible ideas that, while not providing justification, remove some of the possible objections to drug use by the wider community.
And... extra knowledge is never a burden to carry.
BigTrancer
[ 05 September 2002: Message edited by: BigTrancer ]
Good post! Lead by example...
Some people may feel these posts are unfairly directed at them, or unfairly aimed in general and that Bluelight posters aren't the ones that need reminding on how to act. Maybe that's true, but as BL grows, surely the representation of BL as a cross-section of the community grows too. If people feel indignant reading the above and think that neither they, nor any of their friends fits that description as part of the problem, then great! But by the same token they can still be part of the solution anyway by educating themselves, and promoting responsible use and harm minimisation, as they are sensible ideas that, while not providing justification, remove some of the possible objections to drug use by the wider community.
And... extra knowledge is never a burden to carry.
BigTrancer
[ 05 September 2002: Message edited by: BigTrancer ]
vurtomatic
Bluelight Crew
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mashead testing
Bluelighter
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This says it all really
<Cohaa> namgs arenioce
<Cohaa> ]
* Looking up hiding user info...
<hiding> hello
* Looking up ChanOP user info...
* Hellman has joined #bluelight
* Cohaa has quit IRC (Exit: )
<hiding> im new here this is my first time
<ssjdav> well usen a
<ssjdav> well use a condom
<hiding> are you talking to me?
<abbie> lol
<ssjdav> yes
<ssjdav> hehe
<ssjdav> night ppl
<abbie> ni ni baby
* abbie hugs dave
<hiding> why would i want to use a condom?
<greyX> to stop spreading ur aids
<Danza> night
<hiding> i dont have aids
<abbie> because it is your first time
<abbie> ?
<abbie> so
<hiding> my first time in a chat room and i need a condom? that doesnt make sense
<abbie> u should always use a condom
<hiding> i only came here to meet people from bluelight
<ssjdav> its a joke
<ssjdav> haha
<ssjdav> u know
<abbie> if it's not on, it's not on
<ssjdav> lol
<hiding> but joking about aids isnt funny really is it?
<ssjdav> coming from u?
<greyX> abbie but it feels sooo goood
<ssjdav> not if u have them
<ssjdav> do u have them?
<hiding> no
* ssjdav steps back
<abbie> we said nothing about aids
<abbie> that was u
<ssjdav> well im not sharing needles with you
<InSoMnIa^> doesnt skittles have aids?
<ssjdav> rob.........u fukn hate her dont you
<abbie> i dont think this person get humor
<Cohaa> namgs arenioce
<Cohaa> ]
* Looking up hiding user info...
<hiding> hello
* Looking up ChanOP user info...
* Hellman has joined #bluelight
* Cohaa has quit IRC (Exit: )
<hiding> im new here this is my first time
<ssjdav> well usen a
<ssjdav> well use a condom
<hiding> are you talking to me?
<abbie> lol
<ssjdav> yes
<ssjdav> hehe
<ssjdav> night ppl
<abbie> ni ni baby
* abbie hugs dave
<hiding> why would i want to use a condom?
<greyX> to stop spreading ur aids
<Danza> night
<hiding> i dont have aids
<abbie> because it is your first time
<abbie> ?
<abbie> so
<hiding> my first time in a chat room and i need a condom? that doesnt make sense
<abbie> u should always use a condom
<hiding> i only came here to meet people from bluelight
<ssjdav> its a joke
<ssjdav> haha
<ssjdav> u know
<abbie> if it's not on, it's not on
<ssjdav> lol
<hiding> but joking about aids isnt funny really is it?
<ssjdav> coming from u?
<greyX> abbie but it feels sooo goood
<ssjdav> not if u have them
<ssjdav> do u have them?
<hiding> no
* ssjdav steps back
<abbie> we said nothing about aids
<abbie> that was u
<ssjdav> well im not sharing needles with you
<InSoMnIa^> doesnt skittles have aids?
<ssjdav> rob.........u fukn hate her dont you
<abbie> i dont think this person get humor
vurtomatic
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i fail to see how that is a showcase of elitist bullshit 8)
mashead testing
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vurtomatic
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not trying to refute u for the sake of it here, but i really dont see that as an example of elitism; that pretty much happens in most irc channels. if using a condom cos u're new to irc is an inside i have to say i wasnt clued in on it either :D
i spend so much time parked in there, half the time i get ignored when i do say something![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
if the conversation had been hostile i can see the elitist slant on it, but i didnt think it was so (hostile, that is).
come in more often, i hope ur opinion would change
:D i spend so much time parked in there, half the time i get ignored when i do say something
if the conversation had been hostile i can see the elitist slant on it, but i didnt think it was so (hostile, that is).
come in more often, i hope ur opinion would change
jakoz
Bluelighter
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Originally posted by masheadatronic:
I just hope that doesnt put them off the whole of bluelight.
If that doesn't, this thread will.
It's irc. It's like that. It makes me laugh that the majority of people in here faulting the channel barely/never use it.
If you don't like it, then don't go. Simple.
You can't control what people say 24/7, nor would I want to. When you have a realtime environment with lots of people, crap gets talked. Get over it.
When people ask HM related questions in there, they get answered. What do you expect everyone to do in there in the meantime... discuss preloading for days at a time?
vurtomatic
Bluelight Crew
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Originally posted by Jakoz:
What do you expect everyone to do in there in the meantime... discuss preloading for days at a time?
actually i go on irc for the sole purpose of looking for porn in warez/porn channels but the people tell me im not l33t enough and to go jerk off with a condom
i guess that's safe sex/harm mimisation for u
so...
anyone wanna hook me up? :D
Pleonastic
Bluelighter
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- Sep 11, 2000
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- 9,428
I agree that it's unfortunate that a new bluelighter might have been put off bluelight because of the IRC channel. But in all honesty, what can you do? It's just IRC - cliques are a part of it.
If people in the IRC channel were telling someone in that situation to "fuck off n00b" then I might be a little annoyed. But they were just making jokes. And IRC is basically unmoderated - you'll only get kicked for being a troll or trying to deal.
The reason we've got the IRC channel is so that the Aus Bluelighters have a place where they can chat in real time. A lot (I dare say most) of the people in there have met each other in real life. I've been in the main IRC channel and found it hard to get a word in because of all the Americans talking about what they got up to on the weekend - didn't bother me, because I'm just not part of their clique (nor do I expect to be instantly accepted into it).
I think the important thing to note here though is that this sort of thing doesn't happen in the Aus Social forum. Personal posts and in-jokes are discouraged, and if a greenlighter wants to put their 2c into a discussion of an issue then their opinion is given as much weight as anyone else's. I think there are far bigger problems with elitism and cliques on other parts of the board, and the Aus IRC channel is the least of our concerns...
If people in the IRC channel were telling someone in that situation to "fuck off n00b" then I might be a little annoyed. But they were just making jokes. And IRC is basically unmoderated - you'll only get kicked for being a troll or trying to deal.
The reason we've got the IRC channel is so that the Aus Bluelighters have a place where they can chat in real time. A lot (I dare say most) of the people in there have met each other in real life. I've been in the main IRC channel and found it hard to get a word in because of all the Americans talking about what they got up to on the weekend - didn't bother me, because I'm just not part of their clique (nor do I expect to be instantly accepted into it).
I think the important thing to note here though is that this sort of thing doesn't happen in the Aus Social forum. Personal posts and in-jokes are discouraged, and if a greenlighter wants to put their 2c into a discussion of an issue then their opinion is given as much weight as anyone else's. I think there are far bigger problems with elitism and cliques on other parts of the board, and the Aus IRC channel is the least of our concerns...