Big and Dandy Salvia Scraps

[Medi57]

Yes, its a super dissociative

 

[PuristLove]

We cloned kappa and mu opioid receptor cDNAs. Using these cDNAs, first, we examined the molecular mechanism for the subtype selectivity of opioid ligands, especially a mu-selective ligand DAMGO. Binding experiments using various chimera and mutated receptors revealed that DAMGO discriminates between mu and delta receptors by recognizing the difference in only one amino acid residue, that is, N(127) in mu and K(108) in delta, at the first extracellular loop, and that it distinguishes between mu and kappa receptors by the difference in four amino acid residues at the third extracellular loop. Second, we established the cell lines expressing the cloned mu, delta, or kappa receptor and elucidated the pharmacological properties, that is, binding affinity and agonistic activity of several opioid agonists. Third, distribution of the mRNAs for mu, delta, and kappa receptors in the brain, spinal cord, and DRG was examined by in situ hybridization histochemistry (ISHH). Double ISHH demonstrated that most of the substance P-producing DRG neurons express the micro receptor. Recently, we are interested in the emotional aspect of pain and its regulation by opioids. Behavioral and microdialysis studies showed that sustained pain evoked by the intraplanter injection of formalin induced conditioned place aversion through the increment of glutamate release followed by the activation of NMDA receptors in the basolateral nucleus of amygdala (BLA). Intra-BLA injection of morphine suppressed the place aversion by inhibiting the glutamate release.

-----Title: [Molecular pharmacology of opioid receptors]
Author(s): Minami M
Author's Address: Department of Molecular Pharmacology, Graduate School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Kyoto University, Japan. [email protected]
Source: Nippon yakurigaku zasshi. Japanese journal of pharmacology [Nippon Yakurigaku Zasshi] 2004 Feb; 123 (2), pp. 95-104.

There is a lot of interaction between opioid and NMDA receptors, and it is very possible that salvinorin A effects the NMDA receptors through some secondary mode of action.

 

[subdefy]

It certainly does feel somewhat like DXM to me. That phrase that 'deviate' used, 'a state of simple consciousness' may be the common factor. They both have a strange way of reducing me to a passive recipient of experience, although salvia is much more violent about it. They can also both make it hard to recognise familiar things, even in the absence of OEVs.

DXM and salvia synergise very, very nicely -- the salvia is far more intense and lacks the terror that sometimes comes with it. I don't know what this means, but it must be relevant in some way.

It's possible to have dissociative-like experiences with amanitas (GABAergic), and there is another powerful synergy between amanitas and salvia.

These synergies suggest different actions converging on a common effect.

If I was going to put it in any class at all, dissociatives would probably be the one I'd pick.

I will def. have to try this Salvia and DXM combo seems nice without the terror of lady salvia When did you smoke the salvia around what hour mark? 3?

 

[fungus44]

I'd describe it as a disassociative. Its effects sem the most like an experience of disassociation, in the psychiatric sense, of any drug I've tried. It also has the advantage of being short lived.

I think it is a valuable tool to access a certain psychotic or autism like state with very minor damage.

 

[Jamshyd]

Btw... by "Dissociative" I mean technically a dissociative anaesthetic - as in something that blocks sensory signals, leaving consciousness in a vaccume.

I am aware that certain psychedelics like 5-MeO-DMT, 2C-T-21 and 2C-T-4 are known to have "dissociating" effects, but they do not work the same way that actual dissociatives work.

Could it be this affinity for the Kappa receptor? Although I am rather cynical about the whole receptor business.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Painkillers

Some opiates have partial agonist activity at the kappa receptor (eg pentazocine), and they're all the ones that have been known to induce psychotic states in people prescribed them for pain relief.

If you can imagine a partial mu agonist type of activity, and the state it produces (the "classic" opiate sedation, analgesia and euphoria, only in a watered down form) and throw into the mix a partial kappa agonist (? a salvia type experience, but again watered down), it's going to be a fairly weird verson of reality to have to function in, and might explain why pentazocine is not as well tolerated as straight mu agonists like morphine.

Actually, on the subject of opiates and dissociatives, methadone has partial NMDA antagonist activity, but I can't decern any ketamine-like experience from the mu agonist activity of methadone (then again, on the few occasions I've used it as a painkiller, I've used either 5 or 10 mg as a dose. Maybe to decern any NMDA antagonist like activity, you have to take a higher dose, but as I have no tolerance to mu agonist opiates, I really don't want to risk myself with big doses.

As a last thought (maybe better suited to OD), shouldn't methadone's partial NMDA antagonism mean that tolerance to the mu agonist activity should develop slower than with purely mu agonist drugs like morphine?

 

[S1ngularity]

Does salvia block NMDA ports like all other dissassociatives?

 

[ebola?]

no. salvia is an agonist at kappa-opiod receptors.

ebola

 

[jar4ever]

It shares some effects with dissociatives, some with psychadelics, and even some with stimulants. I see why people would call it a dissociative, it does dissociate you from reality. However, it does not supress respuratory effects and it effects a different part of the brain. So I would say the percieved effects are most like a dissociative, but it works on your body in a very different way.

 

[gloggawogga]

Some merging with another thread on the same topic.

 

[Leg]

lol ...no, i can't say that's ever happened to me...

...hehe...have a sitter, i guess

 

[DeathByDefault]

I once took 3 massive hits from a pipe while outside in a screened in smoking room, a potatoe bag hanging on the wall then turned into a monkey which was telepathically screaming at me to "JOIN THE ARMY! JOIN THE ARMY!" , I then turned to the dustpan on the other side of the wall and it done the same thing. At this point I blacked out.

My Friend told me afterwards that I ran inside the house mumbling something about my left leg being horribly shorter then my other leg ( it isn't ) all the while limping for some reason or another.

This all happened while using a 20x extract which I have watched consistently put people out of their heads and occasionally wander, though usually they are so fucked up in the head they don't know left from right, up from down, etc.

 

[caust1c]

This is interesting, my friend smoked some fortified salvia and almost immediately stood up and tried to walk around the couch. He had great difficulties and I was easily able to gently pull him back onto the couch to sit. He had no recollection of doing this. Be careful if flying solo!

I should add, this appears to be an effect that only occurs when a large ammount (too much?) is smoked. Others who have tried numerous times in my presence and never stood up, and commonly recollect the 'salvia gravity' effect. It was hard to lift their arms, let alone actually stand up.

The main point I find interesting is that most people don't recall moving, yet most other people who experience the 'gravity' effect, remember the trips.

 

[trainwreck]

yeah just the other night we were at some unknown street at like around midnight-ish and when i took a rip of 10x supposedly i just got up and ran down the street screaming and laughing.
heh. i guess i woke everybody up

 

[Jambo]

Aight Caust1c....man this is fucked up...i had a hit of salvia x20 a few nights back, man it rocked my fucking world...the gravity effect you talked of i got that shit man, it was BIZZARRE i felt like i had velcro on my body and i was walkin on the shit velcro sticks to, and ExternalCrux....your analogy of salvia divinorum being like "a hellish truman show" was fucking spot on.
Kepp on rockin in the free world.

 

[mopeloss]

I guess I will use this thread to clear two doubts about salvia in pipe:

Do you guys really find it necessary to use a 'torch lighter' (instead of a normal flame one) with 5x or 10x extracts?

When you are dosing on the pipe do you put only the exact 'dosage' you pretend on smoking (like 1/6g for 5x) in the pipe and then try to smoke all of it, or do you put even more and just smoke 'til you get the effects?

 

[kingpen]

I have first hand experience with this. Once I was smoking salvia with my friend and he got up and started running around, then went to the bathroom and pissed all over the place. Apparantly, he though he was at a circus, and I was the ring leader. When he was sober, I took two huge hits of the 20x, and I tried to get up at one point and fell on my ass. Another time, I smoked 5x out of a pipe, and I fell out of my chair and when I stopped tripping, I was on the ground with a bloody knee and a scraped up elbow. I fell out of my chair onto the ground under a table, which I accidentally hit a few times. For some reason, I though I was part of a complex machine that was a gate to reality. My arm was the only thing that could close this reality, and it was involuntarily swinging up and down, while I was under the table, so I was kind punching the table. When the trip was over, I was in some pain, and there was sand in my wound. Next time I smoked salvia (27x) I made sure to be inside, sitting down.

 

[andruejaysin]

First time I did salvia I jumped up, kinda a reflex reaction, fighting the affects. Never happened since.

 

[psilocybe]

yeah this type of "letting go" to the unknown is what scares me about doing high doses of any psychedelic alone.

It's just not a good idea.

 

[Osbie Feel]

I read a report somewhere about a guy who, after his first salvia experience, found himself sitting in his car with the engine running. Other reports mention people trashing rooms, or struggling frantically with trip sitters trying to restrain them.

I don't know how much of this is apocryphal, but it makes me wary of trying salvia alone. And even if I had a sitter, I'd be afraid of hurting them.

I suppose the best place to "break through" would be out of doors, where there's nothing breakable around. Curiously enough, I've never heard of anyone trying this.