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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
best antidepressant for MDMA induced depression
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Regenesis2
Greenlighter
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Unless you naturally have a serotonin deficiency in your genetics or something avoid more drugs. Lots of foods (other than turkey!) have tryptophan, the serotonin precursor, in them. Pretty much all meats and protein containing vegetables/nuts/grains have it. Consume something high in carbs or something sweet when eating protein rich foods and your body will favor the absorbtion of typtophan (has something to do with insulin release). 5htp and B6 will is also a good combo to boost serotonin levels in the brain. Get some sunlight during the day also.Dopa-Amine
Greenlighter
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Tramadol is a great AD. It is fast relieving and tolerance does not go up substantially if used for AD purposes and not recreationally.
Tramadol + Caffeine is a great AD, used on a 1:1 ratio. Empty stomach, first thing upon waking up and you are set for the day, no need to re-dose the tramadol if you throw in more caffeine throughout the day.
I find 100-150 mgs ideal, of course, dependence sets in after a few months. If kept under 200mgs, the WD is not bad. One of my earlier posts today was helping someone else detoxify from a gram of tramadol a day for months. With a use of 200mgs for 3 months, however, WD was not bad.
St.Johns Wort standardised to Hypericum (and not Hypericin!) was a good AD too, in fact, I used it to WD from tramadol without even registering the WD. There are some brands which are better than others, so search around.
I would second the suggestion of St.Johns Wort. It is purported to induce recovery from "burnt" serotonin receptors but so are other SSRIs if I recall correctly. Tramadol is a good option for short term depression, a true god-send, but long term go for SJW.Dopa-Amine
Greenlighter
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5HT is only elevated in the brain if consumed as a single amino acid (l-tryptophan) without other amino acids around. If you are ingesting sufficient protein in your diet (something very common in the developed world), eating foods rich in tryptophan will not make an iota of a difference.
L-tryptophan in an empty stomach is the way to go to boost 5HT, insulin and vit B6 does help though, but most tryptophan supps have this already in the formula.
Lastly, boosting serotonin in the brain via consumption of heroic doses of tryptophan does jack all for depression, it only gives some head tingling, drowsiness and nausea, and is contraindicated with many medications.
negrogesic
Bluelight Crew
I cannot in good conscious recommend tramadol as an anti-depressant......
I would suggest buprenorphine before I would suggest the use of tramadol as an off-label anti-depressant; at least buprenorphine doesn't elicit the disturbing and potentially lethal drug interactions i've seen from high dose tramadol-SSRI,TCA etc....
pofacedhoe
Bluelight Crew
what you describe was exactly my experience with tramadol
the key to using tramadol as an antidepressant is to use one low dose in the morning and then leave it at that.
i never had any bad interactions from it but then i never took more than 150mg a day- big difference between that and a high dose...
negrogesic
Bluelight Crew
Correct, high dose i meant 500mg+. For me personally, i only find tramadol to be opioidergic at 800mg, especially having gone through grams of the o-desmethyltramadol intravenous (yes, I broke out the wheel filters and the 30g's, I generally no longer IV- I hadn't done so in 5 years; I made an exception). Tolerance grew rapidly; in short order I was up to 300mg (yes, 300mg of the M1, pronounced cns depression, respiratory depression and; if there was any NE or 5-HT activity it was overpowered by its MOR affinity). Back to reality for the typical human, do not take these kinds of doses, its a good way to end up in the morgue. 150mg is very unlikely to lead to hypertensive crisis, even combined with other serotonergics (note i said unlikely, not impossible!).if your doing mdma all u need to do is buy some marijuana ... a gram when you wakeup after mdma should be rolled up fat and smoked ... then u wont be thinking bad thoughts ull just be thinking where the fuck is my french toast! just sayin its always my cure for mdma or a hangover
pofacedhoe
Bluelight Crew
thats where we differ as even 100mg for me is very opiodergic after about 3 hours of ingestion, 150mg was the sweet spot tho. never went up in dose for a whole year. towards the end it became analogous to how you get dulled towards ssri's after about 6 months, so thats what prompted me to quit. its benefitted me for years as i'm just not experiencing the mental health problems i had before (Bipolar) although i have for the last 5 years at least taken strong b vitamin complex (with b6 in huge amounts) and that was the time my mental health began its road to recovery.
Renz Envy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2010
- Messages
- 3,337
I would have a better bet guessing that if you're experiencing lethargy and depression months after mdma abuse, it's most likely either psychological or you're still using recreational drugs. In my experience, unless you were using a true, tried and tested batch of MDMA, I would most likely treat you as a former amphetamine user.
Alcohol, for example, releases serotonin and is a horrible way to try and cope with mdma depression. Source
I would go with what Atara said and eat, exercise, sleep. SSRIs will only slowly down regulate serotonin more. Worse in others than some.
If you have anxiety, ask your doctor about buspirone it is a D2 antagonist and HT1a agonist. While it may make you tired-
supplement buspirone with melatonin and it will help rebuild brain tissue. Exercise will also reupregulate dopamine and stimulate growth hormone which will help you in your quest to get over how you feel.
futura2012
Bluelighter
This post above looked interesting.
I have tried Mirtazopine for this problem and found the sedative qualities of this drug almost overpowering. I hear that these do reside after a while but I couldnt really handle it. I also gobbled food like no tomorrow and quickly put on weight.
Someone suggesting on here to use cocaine as an AD seems a little crazy :D I think many of my problems have been caused by cocaine and MDMA.
Finally Tianeptine is mentioned on here with mixed reports. I have tried tianeptine and found the first two days euphoric then it dropped back to almost feeling kind of flat. I wasnt really sure how to proceed with it whether its a good or bad thing. For the moment I have stopped. I have mixed feelings about what to do.
My next shot is lithium I have it on prescription now.
omt
Ex-Bluelighter
Have you tried dosing 5-HTP daily? That can work for some people.
Also, can't threshold doses of AMT work as an anti depressant for some people? Especially since that is what it was originally marketed as.King Kong
Bluelighter
5-HTP shouldn't be used alone over a long period:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415362/
I know... most of people only use 5-HTP over a short period. It's just a little warning for the others.
omt
Ex-Bluelighter
I did not know that. But a cycle of a couple of months followed by say, 2-4 weeks off 5-HTP could be beneficial in providing a boost in mood tho, yes?
Darksidesam
Bluelight Crew
Tryptophan > 5HTP > Serotonin > Melatonin
Why not eat a high tryptophan diet, combined with carbohydrates, to induce those calm feelings.
Please note however, that depending on dose taken etc, that your brain will probably not restore much serotonin within a short time after taking the mdma. (from a few days, up to maybe a week or 2, maybe even more depending on dose)
Exercise is also another important one for helping to regenerate the brain function again.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/entries/...equire-lower-dose-and-lessen-have-no-comedown
This 'e-diet' is high in tryptophan, and i would consider it the alternative to 5-htp if you don't want the side effects of taking 5-htp everyday.
I hope this helps and if anyone is suffering from mdma use/abuse, please feel free to visit Ecstasy Discussion to learn more on the drugs effects and safety tips.
I'm pretty sure they just alter 5-HT dynamics but don't downregulate them in a way you would see in the case of something like amphetamine and DA.Opiate addict in recovery here. Yes, you can get addicted to Tramadol and I've found it fucking horrid for treating my depression/OCD. Why? It's a serotonin releasing agent. I've had the same brain-shivers and unbearable urge to cry hysterically if more than 100mg is consumed in a day that I got after taking too much MDMA/bk-MDMA (they are serotonin releasing agents/SSRIs as well). After that stage is reached, the only thing that helps is, get this, MORE tramadol. You aren't even trying to make up for the newly acquired opiate addiction at this point, just trying to not be overly emotional and twitchy from tramadol's SSRI/SRA effects. Those effects are rapidly diminished as it is metabolized, so it is an effective antidepressant for ~6hrs (or about 3hr if you are seriously addicted) and then you are running on pretty much it's NRI and MOR-agonist profile for an antidepressant effect.
An effective antidepressant tries to stabilize the serotonergic system, whereas Tramadol is releasing and inhibiting the re-uptake for ~6hrs after which you are returned to the new 'baseline' with less serotonin being stored and up/down/sideways-regulation of your serotonin receptors. From experience: you will end up wanted to crawl into a hole and cry until your serotonin levels are stabilized if you fuck up. So don't risk putting yourself in that position by thinking that Tramadol is anything other than a dirty shortcut for temporary relief. Take that shortcut long enough and you'll end up somewhere far worse than you were.
On topic: inositol has unfucked my brain after serotonergic drug abuse. It is a secondary messenger, and lithium's mood stabilizing effect is thought to be mediated by modulating inositol. I've never taken lithium, but have a few bipolar friends who do: they say they don't like it because it 'dulls' their experience; inositol is nothing like that, I found it to be a relief for anxiety and depression at high dosages (18g/day).
Thats no suprise, sero releasing agents will be far more effective then SSRI's, ive taken daily low mdai doses for 2 weeks myself, sero however isnt much implicated in my disorder.
