Tapering Benzo withdrawal: Losing my mind

[cj]

I see much bigger problem with giving out SSRI/SNRI and other bullshit medication for every people who come with anxiety or depression, for most people it only make it worse. At least benzos do work, even that they are addictive. But you see this all SSRI/SNRI hoax doesn't help at all, it works only 1% better than placebo. I much rather take medication take will work 99% certainly even if there is addiction risk than taking medication that has 10% possibility to work, but 90% possibility making you're condition worse. The problem is not doctors giving out benzos, but problem is that there isn'y any better option when it comes to medication, maybe pregabalin or gabapentin would be better. But ssris are pure poison, they will change youre brains irreversible to the worse, they most likely dont help you at all and they also give you WD's if you quit, some of them like venlafaxine has been said by some opioid addict that the wd's are almost as bad as opioid wds, but the difference is that venlafaxine for most people is totally useless crap.

I'm tired of blaming benzos while not doing it to anti-depressants too, I'm pretty sure there are more people who have made suicide because of ssris because it has made person feel so awful that only way he can think is suicide. I've been on 10 different anti-depressants and I know what I'm speaking, I was also using opioids daily for 2 years and I must say it was much better than using SSRI's. Longest time using benzos was 6 moths daily (xanax), but at least it worked, yes I got wds but at least it worked while I used it. But with there terrible so called "anti-depressants" there weren't even single good day.

Totally agree. Great post. There needs to be better drugs for anxiety.

 

[simco]

I see much bigger problem with giving out SSRI/SNRI and other bullshit medication for every people who come with anxiety or depression, for most people it only make it worse. At least benzos do work, even that they are addictive. But you see this all SSRI/SNRI hoax doesn't help at all, it works only 1% better than placebo. I much rather take medication take will work 99% certainly even if there is addiction risk than taking medication that has 10% possibility to work, but 90% possibility making you're condition worse. The problem is not doctors giving out benzos, but problem is that there isn'y any better option when it comes to medication, maybe pregabalin or gabapentin would be better. But ssris are pure poison, they will change youre brains irreversible to the worse, they most likely dont help you at all and they also give you WD's if you quit, some of them like venlafaxine has been said by some opioid addict that the wd's are almost as bad as opioid wds, but the difference is that venlafaxine for most people is totally useless crap.

I'm tired of blaming benzos while not doing it to anti-depressants too, I'm pretty sure there are more people who have made suicide because of ssris because it has made person feel so awful that only way he can think is suicide. I've been on 10 different anti-depressants and I know what I'm speaking, I was also using opioids daily for 2 years and I must say it was much better than using SSRI's. Longest time using benzos was 6 moths daily (xanax), but at least it worked, yes I got wds but at least it worked while I used it. But with there terrible so called "anti-depressants" there weren't even single good day.

I see your point about the need for better anxiety meds, but with respect to your arguments about anti-depressants, I've gotta call bullshit. SSRI's working at 1% over placebo? 90% probability of making symptoms worse? Poison? Addictive? These assertions are simply not true. It may be true that *your* experience with anti-depressants has been bad, but that doesn't make it the case that they are bad meds in general.

Of course it is true that anti-depressant come with side-effects. And it's true that discontinuing their use abruptly is prone to induce unpleasant effects. But this is very different from addiction.

I'm risking being a dick about this because anti-depressant medications save peoples' lives. Read Andrew Solomon's book The Noonday Demon if you're interested in the statistics. Please, gentle reader, if you're suffering from depression and your doctor indicates SSRI's, get informed and consider your options realistically.

 

[cj]

If you look back at the clinical trial data for Paxil which was one of the first on the market you will see what neo is talking about for effectiveness.

The backlash agains ssrI is that most doctors think they are harmless and write them with no thought of the potential danger. Also discontination syndrome is just a fancy word for withdrawal. I'm not a scientist or a doctor but personally I think it's a bad idea to play with your seretonin system like that. But your right simco that it's just my opinion and observation. I am sure there is a subset of people who benefit from anti depressants but they are prescribed in unethical ways many times.

 

[Ne0]

I see your point about the need for better anxiety meds, but with respect to your arguments about anti-depressants, I've gotta call bullshit. SSRI's working at 1% over placebo? 90% probability of making symptoms worse? Poison? Addictive? These assertions are simply not true. It may be true that *your* experience with anti-depressants has been bad, but that doesn't make it the case that they are bad meds in general.

Of course it is true that anti-depressant come with side-effects. And it's true that discontinuing their use abruptly is prone to induce unpleasant effects. But this is very different from addiction.

I'm risking being a dick about this because anti-depressant medications save peoples' lives. Read Andrew Solomon's book The Noonday Demon if you're interested in the statistics. Please, gentle reader, if you're suffering from depression and your doctor indicates SSRI's, get informed and consider your options realistically.

Well I'm sure there are also lots of people who can say benzos saved they're life. and like cj told, discontinuation syndrome is same as withdrawal syndrome, the medical companies just try to make it sound less harsh. If you get complication after stopping long period of use of some medication then its WD, no matter if they are mentally addictive or not, you still feel shit.

With SSRI's it's like "ok lets try this one come back after 2 months if its not helping (It takes at least around 1-2 month before you might get any positive effects from them), but just as side note prepare to have 1 month of hell tho' hehe nice one yes?, and after that there there are 10 other ssris that you can try if this one made you feel worse then ever before, so have fun next 2 years trying out if something might help you". Good luck with that. Oh and don't forget that even if some ssri is working it can loose its efficiency in near future, like for me buprione is only one that worked but it stopped working after 1 month.


CJ by the way how long did you use benzos daily what doeses and what benzos?

 

[F'Loki]

Just for the record, I am on day 3 of taking Mirtazapine and each night it seems to be working better and better for my insomnia. It definitely makes me feel sedated but in a more 'natural way' as opposed to benzos. I don't know how else to describe it.
I haven't noticed any increase of anxiety or increase in suicidal thoughts or other nastiness yet either. On the contrary I am finding I am able to drop now to 20mg diazepam when I should be on 22mg - so I am 2 weeks ahead of schedule.

Of course this may not last and things could flip the other way quickly and without warning, so I am ever vigilant. But so far it's encouraging and already seems to be working for me. Being able to sleep is heaven.

Take care

F'loki

 

[Ne0]

Just for the record, I am on day 3 of taking Mirtazapine and each night it seems to be working better and better for my insomnia. It definitely makes me feel sedated but in a more 'natural way' as opposed to benzos. I don't know how else to describe it.
I haven't noticed any increase of anxiety or increase in suicidal thoughts or other nastiness yet either. On the contrary I am finding I am able to drop now to 20mg diazepam when I should be on 22mg - so I am 2 weeks ahead of schedule.

Of course this may not last and things could flip the other way quickly and without warning, so I am ever vigilant. But so far it's encouraging and already seems to be working for me. Being able to sleep is heaven.

Take care

F'loki

When I first started to use mirtazapine for insomnia, about 10 years ago, it worked very well, I actually enjoyed the sedation that came before you fell asleep. And I used it at least 1 month daily, never got any negative side effects. But for some reasons about 4 years ago when I started to use it again I noticed that on 3rd day I experienced very strong anhedonia from it and other common depression symptoms, the whole day felt like one hell, I just took another mirtazapien to sleep another 12 hours, because whats the point be awake if noting gives you satisfaction? At least mirtazapine gives usually very nice and long dreams, other one that I like with mirtz. Too bad I cant use it anymore.

 

[cj]

Neo- I curgently take kolonopin 2mg a day. Though lately I have been cheating. Yesterday my beloved grandma had cancer surgery. I came to the realization sithing I'm the hospital that she doesn't have long to live. I ended up getting blacked out on kpin I took at least 6mg buy I haven't counted my bottle yet. Then I smoked weed which I hadnt done in 4 months. So I was fucking gone. I would say I have a pretry bad benzo habit to be honest.

 

[simco]

NeO... hey man, I owe you an apology. Sorry I got nasty yesterday about the SSRI effectiveness stuff. I've been feeling shitty this week, and I'm afraid I let that get the better of me.

Again, I am sorry.
Sim

 

[Ne0]

Neo- I curgently take kolonopin 2mg a day. Though lately I have been cheating. Yesterday my beloved grandma had cancer surgery. I came to the realization sithing I'm the hospital that she doesn't have long to live. I ended up getting blacked out on kpin I took at least 6mg buy I haven't counted my bottle yet. Then I smoked weed which I hadnt done in 4 months. So I was fucking gone. I would say I have a pretry bad benzo habit to be honest.

Yes but how long have you used them daily? I ones used 2mg kpins and 2mg xanax and diatsepam 20mg daily for 2 months, I felt pretty shit for 1 weeks. So I was thinking if you have used them for years because you get so bad WDS? I'm sorry for your grandma, I hope she and you all get well and you can kick the habit.

Right now I've veen using I'm using 2-4mg kpins daily for 2 weeks (2mg is ok to take anxiety away but 4 is good for really chilling out, I wont get blackout from benzos that easy unless I mix with alcohol) because I started new work and you know the stress with new work, that maybe I they think I'm shit worker and kick me out and Iäm out of money have to pay really big loans, its very hard to find any job here right now, so while on benzos I do my work better as I'm stress free. Also I don't like working with other people, but I have to at least benzos makes me not to care. So I need for work. Right now is 14rd day of usig kpins 1-4mg daily, so It's time to stop if I want to avoid WD's. Going to stop tomorrow and have 4 day break from benzos after that I stop benzos altogether and start to use pregabalin in doses 75mg and move from there up to maximum 300mg, I hope 150mg is enough tho. I got 167 75mg pills, so that should be more than enough.

For me I really don't care at the moment, when I was unemployed I didn't use anything, nothing to worry, I got enough money to live. But I plan to work next 10 years with good salary (if I get permanent work) keep over 100 000 euros of money and move to some warm country, I really don't care much if I get addicted to benzos or lyricas while doing it, I can stop them when I'm done doing work. I really hate working with other people, because I find 90% people are unpleased. I get my benzos from doctor and rest from dark market. Last time I worked almost 3 years using opium every day, but had to quit because it become too expensive so I couldn't save any money. Really not planning to get back to opioids, but while I'm not permanent worker and have problem with working with other people I will use something to easy the stress no matter if its addicting. You know unemployment is not a choice. no money to save, no money to buy anything, every day is same boring. At least in work I feel I'm doing something for my future and every now and then I can upgrade my PC and play games and maybe go trip abroad. So my situation is little different. I'm really not planning to stop using anything as long there isn't any alternative, maybe if I win lottery for 1 mil dollars I can quite then. Lately Ive took some opioids because now I don't get any WD's after one or two day use (only slight sweeting), but I better not risk with it. After 3 years of opium suei couldnt work for 6 months, but now I'm all good again.

NeO... hey man, I owe you an apology. Sorry I got nasty yesterday about the SSRI effectiveness stuff. I've been feeling shitty this week, and I'm afraid I let that get the better of me.

Again, I am sorry.
Sim

Ah no problem, I've also have had write some really nasty comments to other people here so we all do it sometimes if we let negative emotions take control of our selfs.

 

[F'Loki]

When I first started to use mirtazapine for insomnia, about 10 years ago, it worked very well, I actually enjoyed the sedation that came before you fell asleep. And I used it at least 1 month daily, never got any negative side effects. But for some reasons about 4 years ago when I started to use it again I noticed that on 3rd day I experienced very strong anhedonia from it and other common depression symptoms, the whole day felt like one hell, I just took another mirtazapien to sleep another 12 hours, because whats the point be awake if noting gives you satisfaction? At least mirtazapine gives usually very nice and long dreams, other one that I like with mirtz. Too bad I cant use it anymore.

I just had to google anhedonia. That really sucks. My wife and an old friend of mine said they struggled with blunting of emotions too. My wife stopped taking them (this was before she met me) and my friend switched to a TCA instead of an SSRI for extreme PMS symptoms and takes it 2 week son and 2 weeks off and says she is perfectly happy taking it like this and wouldn't dream of ever stopping it, such is the improvement in the quality of life it has given her. I think this really goes to show how differently individuals react to anti-depressants: I have no idea why? I guess it's a complex variety of reasons.

Well, today thankfully I feel fine (other than my damn chest infection I am struggling to shake off!) both physically and psychologically (as fine as you can be whilst withdrawing from benzos and having depression!). The taper is going so much more better now I have slowed it down (as suggested by people here, Ashton Manual, and my clinic's chief prescriber and GP) and being much more patient.

That's a real shame you cannot use it anymore but totally get why you wouldn't: Going around emotionally numb sounds terrible and as you say, would make the day seem rather pointless if you can't get any satisfaction out of anything. And I imagine that could also make the underlying depression worse, as you would inevitably stop going out, socialising, exercising etc. All things that are important for combating depression.
Hopefully now it's day 4 this evening I won't get any of the nasty side effects. *Fingers crossed*. Insomnia is the root cause of my depression though so this is probably why it is working so well for me, I am guessing...It's so bad that i'd even take some of that emotional blunting (to an extent) over having periods when sleep deprivation has me on the verge of psychosis and having suicidal thoughts.

CJ: Sorry to hear about your grandma. I totally get why you would take more in those circumstances. I was terrible for that when I was travelling last year o assignment for 6 months in countries where diazepam is just over the counter, no prescription required, and eye wateringly cheap lol Needless to say, i'd take tonnes without a second though if me and my wife had one of those grueling 18 hour night buses and getting held up at gunpoint etc.
At my worst though when the thieno-benzos were still legal in my country I could easily get through 2mg of clonazolam, mixed with some etizolam, with 0.25mg of clonazolam being equivalent to around 10mg diazepam, which means I was taking 80mg worth of diazepam, plus etizolam on top....So yeah, it was the clonazolam that really got me hooked on benzos...That stuff felt like the perfect benzo to me and that was the problem lol A little too perfect.
So yeah, x6 2mg of Clonazepam isn't THAT bad. I mean, it's bad, but I have heard of plenty of people take a lot more, sometimes ridiculous doses, like 250mg diazepam a day. So hopefully that gives you some solace: There are always people much worse off.

Don't feel too bad about "cheating" in your case: You had a crisis moment with your grandma. And to be honest it won't affect the general outcome if you are trying to maintain your dose or taper. It happens.

Take care

F'loki

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I see your point about the need for better anxiety meds, but with respect to your arguments about anti-depressants, I've gotta call bullshit. SSRI's working at 1% over placebo? 90% probability of making symptoms worse? Poison? Addictive? These assertions are simply not true. It may be true that *your* experience with anti-depressants has been bad, but that doesn't make it the case that they are bad meds in general.

Of course it is true that anti-depressant come with side-effects. And it's true that discontinuing their use abruptly is prone to induce unpleasant effects. But this is very different from addiction.

I'm risking being a dick about this because anti-depressant medications save peoples' lives. Read Andrew Solomon's book The Noonday Demon if you're interested in the statistics. Please, gentle reader, if you're suffering from depression and your doctor indicates SSRI's, get informed and consider your options realistically.

SSRI's are largely ineffective for mild depression. It's much more effective for severe depression, but even then, SSRI's seem to treat OCD and PTSD "the best" of all the indicated disorders. I don't really believe in SSRI's for depression because of that, just my 2 cents.

SSRI's are largely physically addictive, and can cause withdrawal symptoms, especially ones with shorter half lives like sertraline (zoloft). I know this from personal experience as well, as it is extremely unpleasant.

In my experience, they are best for reducing one's affect range and reducing tactile sensation.

 

[cj]

Neo- I've been addicted to benzos around 10 months. Maybe a year it's hard to recall honestly. I'm just worried I'm going to get to the ppint where they stop working. I dunno I just took my last 3 kpin that I got illicitly so now I'm going to drop back down to my prescribed 2mg a day for awhile and hope my tolerance slowly falls. I haven't been using super high doses for that long maybe a week so I think I'll be ok. And I know whats supper high to me is nothing to some people. I don't have as NY plans to get off benzos anytime soon either.

Floki thanks for the kind words about my grandma it means alot.

 

[Ne0]

Neo- I've been addicted to benzos around 10 months. Maybe a year it's hard to recall honestly. I'm just worried I'm going to get to the ppint where they stop working. I dunno I just took my last 3 kpin that I got illicitly so now I'm going to drop back down to my prescribed 2mg a day for awhile and hope my tolerance slowly falls. I haven't been using super high doses for that long maybe a week so I think I'll be ok. And I know whats supper high to me is nothing to some people. I don't have as NY plans to get off benzos anytime soon either.

Floki thanks for the kind words about my grandma it means alot.

I think it takes years before benzos stop working. Im using htem off and on, but never so long like you they always work for me, but sure recreatioonal doses need more than at first. But I hope ell that you get off from yorue addiction.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Neo- I've been addicted to benzos around 10 months. Maybe a year it's hard to recall honestly. I'm just worried I'm going to get to the ppint where they stop working. I dunno I just took my last 3 kpin that I got illicitly so now I'm going to drop back down to my prescribed 2mg a day for awhile and hope my tolerance slowly falls. I haven't been using super high doses for that long maybe a week so I think I'll be ok. And I know whats supper high to me is nothing to some people. I don't have as NY plans to get off benzos anytime soon either.

Floki thanks for the kind words about my grandma it means alot.

What does your higher dose use consist of these days cj?

 

[cj]

What does your higher dose use consist of these days cj?

3mg at once gets me good and out of it. 1mg still works though. I'm really happy I have the opportunity to do other benzos every month to take advantage of incomplete cross tolerance. Like 1mg xanax still gets me good. Same with etazolam

 

[Jabberwocky]

That's good to hear, meaning it doesn't sounds like your tolerance has gotten out of hand. You know where that goes.

Although I'll be staying away from benzos after that recent experience of mind for a while, it is certainly nice to be able to get more of out 20mg of diazepam than I used to out of 200mg. Gabaergic tolerance can be a wicked beast.

 

[cj]

I've been trying to take advantage of incomplete cross tolerance by having some xanax and etizolam days thrown in during the month. Its worked well so far.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

The incomplete cross-tolerance really isn't something you should rely on, as it goes away over time. I used to know someone who would go through an entire benzo rx in 3-4 days tops, and they would change up the drug every month. It really only allowed them to feel the effects, but the drugs would always be gone after 3 to 4 days.

Glad to hear you're not going through them that quickly though.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Sounds like me toward the end of my benzo use 8)

 

[alpha_centauri]

Neo- I curgently take kolonopin 2mg a day. Though lately I have been cheating. Yesterday my beloved grandma had cancer surgery. I came to the realization sithing I'm the hospital that she doesn't have long to live. I ended up getting blacked out on kpin I took at least 6mg buy I haven't counted my bottle yet. Then I smoked weed which I hadnt done in 4 months. So I was fucking gone. I would say I have a pretry bad benzo habit to be honest.

I'm sorry about your grandmother. Get sober and clean now for yourself and her before it's too late for you.