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Belief in god or not?

methamaniac said:
If the universe was filled with infinite stars there would be no space to traverse.
But then you're going to say there is infinite space in this infinite universe. If so, then why do we see anything?
And where exactly does 2nd law of thermo fit in to this universe? Or is it an illusion?
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It's illusion. We have only to look out at the stars to see that clearly, the chaos of the Big Bang has become more ordered over time. We can look around at life forms and see not only has the Earth become more ordered, Life itself brings order.

Note the 2nd law ONLY applies in a closed and isolated universe, and seeing the universe as either closed OR isolated is strictly an assumption. The presence of order in something that began as chaotic would seem to be strong evidence we are NOT in a closed and isolated system... doncha think? :D
 
Journyman16 said:
It's illusion. We have only to look out at the stars to see that clearly, the chaos of the Big Bang has become more ordered over time. We can look around at life forms and see not only has the Earth become more ordered, Life itself brings order.

Note the 2nd law ONLY applies in a closed and isolated universe, and seeing the universe as either closed OR isolated is strictly an assumption. The presence of order in something that began as chaotic would seem to be strong evidence we are NOT in a closed and isolated system... doncha think? :D
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Well you know I agree something exists outside the universe.
And you know I've stated its possible we may be in a dream/illusion.
I guess my assumption is you were postulating the universe is a closed system.
Having said that, even with an infinite amount of time to do it, how does light traverse across an infinite space? lol not really a fair question as it is kin to asking how does light escape a black hole.
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I don't know if it can. The Dynamic Steady State Universe (DSSU) for example would have the light being redshifted so far as it crossed the macrocosmic 'cells' (approx 300 million light years wide each) that there would seem to be a distinct limit on how far a photon could travel before losing all energy - photons are unable to come under the speed of light so I have no idea what would happen when one got to zero or an absolute minimum of energy.
 
Blackholes kinda prove light has its limits-
in our universe anyways.

(little of topic)
Once light hits the event horizon it is eaten/trapped/recycled whichever you perfer.
Do you think it then reappears somewhere in the universe or travels somewhere outside the universe? Possibly back to the source where it came from?
 
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That's IF there are Black Holes. It's a big IF, considering all the theory up to that point is suspect. The theory that gives us BH's is also the theory that says Redshift is velocity, but we can SEE high redshift objects attached to low redshift objects - even one of those is enough to blow the Standard Model of Cosmology out of the water.

arp274.gif

Arp 274 NGC 5679. NGC is a very small object, about 1.2'x.5' that is actually a triple system. Its Arp Classification is galaxies with loops. It is also interesting in that in the image from the Arp Atlas the B component, in the center, shows signs of interacting with the A component. This is yet another system where the redshifts of the objects show them to be at drastically different distances, but they are in obvious contact. RV for the three components are - A 7483kps, B 8654kps and C 7618kps. By conventional theory A and C are fairly close, but B should be a background object, anywhere from 17 to 23 Mpc in the background.

Mpc is Megaparsecs - a parsec is 3.25 light years. B should be more than 50 million light years behind A & C yet interaction is apparent. There are quite a few others - Google for Arps peculiar galaxies.

Here is NGC4319 along with the Quasar Markarian 205 - you can SEE the connection. Note the other objects in this have no such connections?
n4319.gif


Here they are again under different processing conditions.
NGC_4319_T.jpg


Redshift NGC4319 - 0.004526 - or about 80 million LY from us.
Redshift Markarian 205 - 0.070846 - or about 1.2 billion LY from us.
 
I believe in God, because one day while I was tripping on 2CI looking at a tree a question came to mind--how could there NOT be a God?
 
blast from the past. hey man!

i'm currently enjoying an audiobook of "a short history of nearly everything" by bill bryson and although i am familiar with the astonishing scale of things, this has a way of showing how i am still yet underestimating it drastically. it's making me feel very fucking insignificant and special.

yes i be down with a deity or three
 
Journyman16 said:
That's IF there are Black Holes. It's a big IF, considering all the theory up to that point is suspect. The theory that gives us BH's is also the theory that says Redshift is velocity, but we can SEE high redshift objects attached to low redshift objects - even one of those is enough to blow the Standard Model of Cosmology out of the water.

arp274.gif

Arp 274 NGC 5679. NGC is a very small object, about 1.2'x.5' that is actually a triple system. Its Arp Classification is galaxies with loops. It is also interesting in that in the image from the Arp Atlas the B component, in the center, shows signs of interacting with the A component. This is yet another system where the redshifts of the objects show them to be at drastically different distances, but they are in obvious contact. RV for the three components are - A 7483kps, B 8654kps and C 7618kps. By conventional theory A and C are fairly close, but B should be a background object, anywhere from 17 to 23 Mpc in the background.

Mpc is Megaparsecs - a parsec is 3.25 light years. B should be more than 50 million light years behind A & C yet interaction is apparent. There are quite a few others - Google for Arps peculiar galaxies.

Here is NGC4319 along with the Quasar Markarian 205 - you can SEE the connection. Note the other objects in this have no such connections?
n4319.gif


Here they are again under different processing conditions.
NGC_4319_T.jpg


Redshift NGC4319 - 0.004526 - or about 80 million LY from us.
Redshift Markarian 205 - 0.070846 - or about 1.2 billion LY from us.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'm honest , I'll concede the blackholes are an if ☺
But that still doesn't change fact light wouldn't get any closer to our eyes if it had to cross infinite space. Even with infinite time. You know what I mean? You got an infinite space to cover.
 
MissBehavin'_416 said:
Is it possible that the wyorld was created by the big bang which God made happen? I think so.
Click to expand...

Only taking the Bible at face value (idiocy based on what we know about the book, it's edited) would discount this. I look at science and it explains a tiny fraction of God's magic IMO but it's the truth (until proven otherwise by future scientists.)

God is a personal thing and spreading ignorance in God's name is blasphemy.
 
MissBehavin'_416 said:
Is it possible that the world was created by the big bang which God made happen? I think so.
Click to expand...
You may very well think so, but that doesn't make it so. Chances are excellent the Big Bang never happened - there is physical evidence that says a rather solid 'No' to the basic reason why they came up with the Big Bang in the first place. (Redshift - discovered by Edwin Hubble and the proximate cause behind the Standard Model of Cosmology.

And if the idea that Redshift shows us the velocity (speed and direction) of far off galaxies is wrong, then the whole of the SMC falls apart.

There are also a couple of better theories to explain the Universe and the Redshift factor, and they yield predictions that are true without needing exotic (read 'magic) forces to get the theory to give us the Universe we see.

So to answer your question... chances are excellent God did NOT start the Universe with a Big Bang... :D
treezy z said:
Only taking the Bible at face value (idiocy based on what we know about the book, it's edited) would discount this. I look at science and it explains a tiny fraction of God's magic IMO but it's the truth (until proven otherwise by future scientists.)
God is a personal thing and spreading ignorance in God's name is blasphemy.
Click to expand...
Well... men have nipples. And the Y chromosome looks incredibly much like a modified X chromosome. And if the testosterone production system fails in the development of a foetus, we get an XY with a female body.

That suggests the bible story got it wrong way back there in chapter 2 when God made Adam - the evidence (science) suggests that if there was a god involved, God made Eve, and from Eve made Adam. That's why men have nipples etc.

And if spreading ignorance is blasphemy, the entire Church is guilty across about 1500 years and only became less blasphemous when the world began to separate the Church from the State. Prior to that they spread ignorance in great shovel-loads. :D
 
I agree, I'm Christian but fuck a church and most of the Bible. I read the Gospel of Thomas which is just Jesus's teachings without all the fairy tales.

And I said science is the truth, you misinterpreted.
 
treezy z said:
And I said science is the truth, you misinterpreted.
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You're correct - reading back I did interpret it the wrong way - I thought you were saying the God 'magic' so I provided some science that showed the magic to be wrong.

My apologies.
 
the idea of us being one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively is a theory that I can really get behind. Life does not end in death it is just the beginning of another life. I believe in reincarnation. We are God if there is such a thing.
 
I do believe in god, bcause of many religious experiences (99% on drugs) and religious dreams.

anything you know, you believe in. knowing something is believing it.
 
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