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Back in my day...

^ I guess some of us just aren't ultra paranoid that, some how, the pill in our hands that looks EXACTLY the same as every other Defqon that have been lab tested and confirmed by reagents is different from all the rest..


Not to mention there haven't been any reports on any bunk speakers/defqons/triforces/squirrels... and I know you'll be the first to say that doesn't mean there aren't any going around, but if no one has seen or heard anything, there's not really any reason to warn people about it.



Plus if a fake ever was produced, it would be easy to spot due to the high quality of the press.. I doubt anyone would be able to mimic that.
 
it's not a question of being ultra-paranoid. given the illicit nature of the market in which we operate and the heavily anecdotal nature of information at our fingertips, vague generalisations are of limited value. given the nature of bluelight's mission, reliance on facts wherever possible should be at the core of our dialog.

saying "no defqons are bunk" is, to me, of as little value as saying "all defqons are bunk" because they're part of a conversation which encourages people to make assumptions about what's in their pill based on what's on their pill. i believe that's not good hr. you're free to disagree.

"Not on BL"? i'll agree to disagree :)

alasdair
 
I think the point is Alasdair when I said 'Defqon' i am referring to the lab tested defqon that measures in at between 140mG - 200mG+ depending on batch. As of yet as folley rightly points out there are no reported fakes.

If there are no reported fakes and plenty of confirmed lab analysis, the pills are very finely pressed, they are a very intricate out press then a vague generalisation I feel is over exagerated. In the majority of cases a 'Defqon' means a 'Defqon' everyone knows what this means.

I do disagree with you.

I dont think referring to a defqon in this context encourages people to make assumptions about whats in their pill at all. This isnt an HR discussion its discussing if you find people from the 90s irritating because they keep wittering on about pills from back in the day.

What was effectively said is a 'defqon' is bunk and quality is shit now.

I am of the 90s generation but when statements like this are made the original point of this discussion all of a sudden makes sense to me.

I suddenly realise what the guy is complaining about. It makes ravers and clubbers from the 90s sound totally burnt out and full of nonsense. If I were in my teens or 20s and heard this I would feel the same way.


If we take what you are saying literally you could say that a reagent test is not a truly accurate test of a pills contents
as a result it is therefore a vague generalisation.

You could argue Pill Reports is anecdotal? Who sent the picture? who wrote the report? who wrote the feedback? Its a report on a single pill.

What use is ecstasydata unless I am carrying a caliper to measure the pills diameter to confirm an original or fake?


You are correct we are discussing an illicit market. There are real dangers.

Much of the data presented can be questioned on its reliability.

I think its dangerous to suggest there are 'true facts' when you consume an ecstasy tablet. Each one of them you take presents an element of risk.

The important message is all the pill content data we are presented with is questionable including Bluelight.

All a user can do is gather as much information as possible and make their own educated decisions.
 
I read through the other thread and I had to agree with the earlier posters. I started using MDMA in 2008, and every roll I've had has been off MDMA powder. I would venture to say that off one 140mg dose I'm peaking for about 3 hours, very high for about 5 hours, and back at baseline at 7 hours. This is off GC/MS tested stuff. To read that someone peaks for only about 2 hours off current material? It just makes me wonder.
 
futura2012 said:
If we take what you are saying literally you could say that a reagent test is not a truly accurate test of a pills contents
as a result it is therefore a vague generalisation.
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a reagent test is not a truly accurate test of a pills contents so i agree with you.
futura2012 said:
You could argue Pill Reports is anecdotal? Who sent the picture? who wrote the report? who wrote the feedback? Its a report on a single pill.
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again, i totally agree with you.
futura2012 said:
What use is ecstasydata unless I am carrying a caliper to measure the pills diameter to confirm an original or fake?
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indeed.
futura2012 said:
You are correct we are discussing an illicit market. There are real dangers.

Much of the data presented can be questioned on its reliability.

I think its dangerous to suggest there are 'true facts' when you consume an ecstasy tablet. Each one of them you take presents an element of risk.
Click to expand...
indeed.
futura2012 said:
The important message is all the pill content data we are presented with is questionable including Bluelight.

All a user can do is gather as much information as possible and make their own educated decisions.
Click to expand...
indeed. we seem to agree for the most part.

alasdair
 
If you agree a reagent test is a "vague generalisation" and pill reports is "anecdotal"

Didnt you say due to the anecdotal nature of information available, vague generalisations are of limited value. Bluelights mission is to rely on facts whereever possible and should be the core of our dialog.


If I have a pill in my hand that I have read about on Pill Reports and Reagent tests for MDMA.

If this information is of limited value what do I do now?

What facts can I rely on?

Do I eat it?

Or is this bad HR?


The point is surely there are no facts.

Due to the illicit nature of our topic we rely on an element of generalisation.

Hence my original comment about the defqon. Its a reasonable assumption.
 
I got to ask, considering this is a thread filled with experienced users who all know we are talking about the same pills... why even bring it up?


I mean, dude... come on. It's not like we can ALWAYS detail EVERY bit of harm reduction advice there is, it would take me 30 minutes to explain one simple post! At some point, you just have to assume that everyone isn't retarded and that if they say they have a Defqon, it's the same Defqon everyone else has had




Is that the best HR? No, probably not... But then again, this isn't an HR thread, and most of us can't be bothered with such trivial information.

At some point, it's up to the user to inform themselves..


ANYWAYS,

I read through the other thread and I had to agree with the earlier posters. I started using MDMA in 2008, and every roll I've had has been off MDMA powder. I would venture to say that off one 140mg dose I'm peaking for about 3 hours, very high for about 5 hours, and back at baseline at 7 hours. This is off GC/MS tested stuff. To read that someone peaks for only about 2 hours off current material? It just makes me wonder
Click to expand...


Yeah, I agree. When I roll, it's like 5 hours at least. If I'm taking other substances I can usually ride the comedown out all day long... shit, I have longer than 2 hour peaks on METHYLONE!
 
I guess you mean the oldskool 2000-2008 style 3 or 4 pills for a tenner?

But the £10 ones are the equiviliant of the defqon/speaker/triforce variety.

Kind of horses for courses in a way cause if you neck x3 - x4 of the oldskool 60mG ish pills it would be similiar to a dutch super.

Browsing all the pillreports reviews theres plenty of UK users so I can only assume this isnt limited to the South West where im from.

Options here are you can still buy a £2.50 pill or a £10 pill. take your pick.

Personally I think its better to have the option.

Cant see why anyone would mess around anymore making or importing a 60mG pill but they do.

I would assume the punishment if you were nicked (busted) by the plod (cops) wouldnt look at the dose of pill they would look at the quantity you were carrying.

They are certainly available here both types.

For 90s style coctails however you would need to buy your own powder and sherbit dib dab as required..
 
Folley said:
I got to ask, considering this is a thread filled with experienced users who all know we are talking about the same pills... why even bring it up?
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this thread has only fifty replies but over a thousand views. just because people aren't posting doesn't mean that they're not reading and learning from the thread.
Folley said:
Is that the best HR? No, probably not...
Click to expand...
q.e.d.
Folley said:
But then again, this isn't an HR thread...
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i'll agree to disagree.
Folley said:
...most of us can't be bothered with such trivial information.
Click to expand...
q.e.d.

"Not on BL"? lol.

alasdair
 
I've been rolling since 1999. I partied in the los angeles rave scene and chicago clubs since. I have dropped hundreds of pills since. Luckily, i can still form words into sentences! It's been fun.

While some of my best pills were taken in 2000-2001, I am enjoying MDMA just as much today. I have been spoiled with good mints and top notch molly. I don't think the pills were that much stronger. I rolled harder two weeks ago than i ever had in my life and i am still glowing from it. Get better connections people because i sure as hell am having a great time :-)
 
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Alasdair im struggling to understand what your message is?

We had moved on back to the topic and we seem to be back again to a highlighted HR issue.

We are trying to point out HR is not the topic of this thread.

Its addressing a complaint about people moaning about quality of pills now vs then.

If we have to address HR issues every time we mention a pill or talk about a relevant theory or compound we are going to be making rather long and trivial posts I think that is the point Folley is trying to make.

As also explained this topic is going to require some form of generalisations and for its very nature will not be a discussion based on absolute facts.

As we keep trying to point out we are aware of HR , we are respuctful of HR and all have a good understanding of it. Most of the people commenting in this thread will often be responding to users in need of HR advice.

I think all users are aware of the nature of drug forums and therefore I think we can respect the intelligence of everyone and assume they wont take every word spoken on here as gospel. Particularly in a thread that is not addressing an HR issue.

I might be missing something or a point you are trying to make but please can you clarify what the issue is and how we might be able to improve the direction of this thread to avoid Moderator interference further.

Please dont take this the wrong way I am sure everyone would value your input on the topic but the message you are trying to make is confusing.
 
the two are hardly mutually exclusive.

as i pointed out, the number of people viewing this thread outnumbers those participating by ~20-1. my point is simple and i'm not sure i can make it any more simple: what's on a pill is never a guarantee of what's in a pill.

if you're fed up hearing this or you disagree, then consider that, perhaps, you're not in the audience. you can always tune it out or simply skip over my posts.

this is certainly drifting more off-topic now. i'd be happy to discuss this in a pm with you if you choose.

regards

alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
my point is simple and i'm not sure i can make it any more simple: what's on a pill is never a guarantee of what's in a pill.
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One night, we 1/2 a Dove (130mg-175mg). I was buzzin out my head, meanwhile the guy I 1/2 it with got ZERO buzz. Looks like somehow all the MDMA was in my 1/2 of the pill....or he was on anti-depressants and never told anyone.
 
Never took ecstasy in the early 90's...all my friends did, with casualties involved. :( I stuck to the acid and the local canal towpaths **bliss** :)
 
velmwend said:
Never took ecstasy in the early 90's...all my friends did, with casualties involved. :( I stuck to the acid and the local canal towpaths **bliss** :)
Click to expand...

Pills were proper strong then. Someone I know took 3 Snowballs and he said in the club his hearing failed, then 1 second later he collapsed. I saw some guy who wrapped 7 pills in a night, he looked totally read like he was going to overheat or something.
 
I read only the first post, but I wanted to chime in. I'm one of those older partiers you are referring to and being close to age 40 I can tell you my regular partying days were some time ago, but I totally agree with you. I don't think it was better back in the day. It was way more magical and special for me then, but I chalk that up to being a youngster discovering life, independence and the novelty of being new to E.

Occasionally now I'm at events where I see younger people using E, and although E has largely left my life I'll tell you something....I sometimes stand along the wall and see the hugs, the light shows, the bright smiles and the wonder in their eyes and it makes me so damn happy to know that the spirit lives on. I sometimes get sentimental and even a little misty eyed to see that the spirit lives on, and I am totally confident that in their own way those youngsters are having the same incredible experience that I did - just because some external things changed doesn't mean that the experience has dampened or changed in any way. I get a total contact "high" from those experiences and don't even need to be on E myself to feel amazing. :-)
 
matt2012 said:
yes...but this is quite a new occurance as MDMA pills go and it is very localized. there aren't a whole lot of these high MDMA pills making it out of Europe let alone across the pond to the US. If it was common all over the world to have pills with 120mg+ in them I could see towing the line for todays pills being better than the 90's vintage but if you average it all out a vew great pills do not make up for all the crap thats out there.

As for old guys touting the quality of 90's pills....I haven't rolled in 12 years now so i don't know any better (or worse). All I know is what I can hear from others that roll today and the consensus is ...the quality has gone in the shitter.
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Yeah, but not everybody is from the US m8 :)
Here in Europe, we're still getting sooo fucked.

And seriously, I don't know what you guys are taling about. I peak for about 4 hours and the whole E-experience lasts for 6 hours on pure crystal MDMA.

I space it out 2+ months between each roll and never had a problem.

Of course, if you don't space it out, tolerance and eventually permanent tolerance will build up, so you will never be able to have a 6-hour roll. Or such an intense peak.

120 mg will get me FUCKED.

200mg will make me not able to move for 3 hours and just rip my clothes overwhelmed by the pleasurable experience.
 
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