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Back in my day...

I see we now have two pills of the 90s threads... LOL


Re the GC/MS tests of pills. I dug into this a little further: Sorry for the long link


http://www.documentingreality.com/f...7YCwDA&usg=AFQjCNGhiNhfLDzXSj9f3Tb86sw8B1i0nQ

Forensic Investigation of Clandestine Laboratories Donnell R. Christian (an interesting read)


Would seem the Gas Chromatography could if needed seperate the isomers for analysis.

Ref PG133

"The GC can be used to differentiate geometric isomers. An example of the use of GC retention times to differentiate between isomers is the identification of the cis- and trans-phenylaziradines that are by-products of the HI reduction of ephedrine to methamphetamine. Even though these compounds have essentially the same mass spectrum, the GC retention times are significantly different."


However I am not so sure the Mass Spectroscopy is going to figure out the Salt Type of MDMA by seperating the ionic bond and then analysing it.

Ref PG134

"The mass spectrometer generally cannot distinguish between the salt and freebase form of a drug. The salt portion of the compound is generally outside the detection range of the MS. The detector only “sees” the freebase portion of the compound."



even if the GCMS could see an identified acid couldnt it be mistakened with another spike? Perhaps an impurity in the synth?

I cant see how a pill analysis site such as ecstasydata.org is going to look too heavily into the actual salt type or the isomers of MDMA.

One simple reason would be time it would take.

I was reading in there 'About Tests and Data Section'

"Why don't you display actual milligram quantitative amounts?"

"In short, the DEA does not allow us to do so. In the United States, the handling of Schedule I substances (MDMA, LSD, Cannabis, etc) is restricted to those with a valid DEA license. Forensic labs such as DDL and others require DEA licensure in order to operate. The DEA has made an unpublished administrative rule that licensed labs are not allowed to provide quantitative data to the public, reportedly for fear of providing 'quality control' to dealers and suppliers of black market products."


If the DEA forbids mG quantities being represented I can only assume that reports suggesting Isomers, salt type etc might fall within this ban.

Clearly this is only valid for the USA but I am still not convinced these lab reports are going to shed a true light on the isomer ratio or salt type a pill might contain.



Have methods for manufacturing MDMA and pills in the 90s changed from methods now? Highly likely

Were pills in the 90s better than pills today?

In America and Australia you could argue - Yes

In Europe you could argue - No

but.. they were different - For Sure

Does a coctail of MDA, MDEA, MDMA make a good pill? - Stronger Yes Good? Very Much Personal Opinion

Is the compared high of a 90s pill to a pill now just down to fried brain / down regulation / memory and nostalgia - UNLIKELY

Which general pill type is better 90s or Now - To be continued...


Just out of interest has anyone had first hand experience of Defqon/Speaker/Triforce/Squirrel/QDance would be really interested to know how the actual buzz compared.
 
futura2012 said:
Just out of interest has anyone had first hand experience of Defqon/Speaker/Triforce/Squirrel/QDance would be really interested to know how the actual buzz compared.
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Futura I have tried both the Defqons, breakline and dance, and the Speakers. Both were very heavy to me. Neither had any endurance whatsoever as I could feel it losing steam and was ready for my re-dose 90 min to 2 hours into the roll. Neither came with the intensity I was expecting to get, but still fun pills. Triforces are awaiting another roll down the road so we'll see on that one. I also took a Yellow Ferrari and again, a fun pill, gave me a punch in the face as I expected, but again was short lived from what I had thought it would be. Even shorter lifespan than the Defs and Speakers.

I'm really starting to watch other people closely and quietly observe their rolls here and there while we're partying. The duration in the gear nowadays is, without a doubt, off. Last Saturday I was with 2 people who were taking some highly potent Dutch MDMA shard for the second time in their lives. They dropped 125mg around 7:30pm and were already saying they wanted their 100mg re-dose by 9-9:30pm. They took it then, had a great roll from the looks of them, minus being overwhelmed by the love I've seen before, and were down and sober by 12am.

Play off tolerance and down regulation there.
 
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Hello blah

Wow two hours after a 135mG pill thats quite something. Was the comeup massively intense then just faded fast?

How did the speaker compare to the Defqon. I read the speaker is supposedly nearer the 200mG mark and very much like MDMA crystal very mellow and the defqon is fast come up intense and super dancey. I beleive the second or third batch even had 'dance' printed on the reverse.

The only thing I would add about this is I have only seen user/pill reports about the speaker which can be inaccurate in many cases. I did see a lab report about the defqon reporting 135mG but I think there is some variation in the batches and also lab reports are not a guarantee as accurate readings from GC/MS I uderstand needs a very skillful technician. Thus these reports are not always 100% accurate.

Wondering if anyone knows links for Defqon/Speaker/Triforce/Qdance etc actual lab reports.

I guess if I think about it most MDMA trips peak for the first two hours and depending then on if you want an entire night of rushing the redose is necessary. Sometimes the less intense part of the trip is quite nice also.

Did you find any difference in the speaker vs the defqon or was it exactly the same?
 
Been scouting around ecstasydata.org and found some pills resembling coctails similiar to the ones around in the 90s.

Theres a few here with coctails of MDMA, MDA, MDEA and a load of other stuff. Its weird but it seemed in 2004 there was a come back of 90s style pills.

The highest dose MDMA pill I could find was 215mG found in Switzerland in 2011.

The most awful pill I could find was a coctail of Ketamine, Meth, Caffeine, MDMA, BZP & TFMPP found in Florida 2009.

If anyone knows of any other sites for lab analysis would be really useful. Particularly if you can find any from the 90s!!


Results below:

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=1276 MDA, MDEA, MDMA, METH - 2004

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=1279 MDA, MDMA, METH - 2004

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=1286 MDMA, MDEA, CAFFEINE, PSEUDO/EPHEDRINE - 2004

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=1292 MDMA, METH, ACETAMINOPHEN, CAFFEINE, PSEUDO/EPHEDRINE - 2004

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=1330 MDMA, MDA, MDEA, CAFFEINE, METH - 2004

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=1336 MDMA, MDA, MDEA - 2004

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=1344 MDMA, MDA, MDEA, METH - 2004

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=1349 MDMA, MDA, MDEA, PSEUDO/EPHEDRINE - 2004

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=1558 MDMA, CAFFEINE, METH, DIPHENHYDRAMINE, PROCAINE - 2006

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=1708 THE MOST GARBAGE PILL EVER - FLORIDA 2009

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=2328 215.9mg MDMA HIGHEST DOSE I COULD FIND SWITZERLAND 2011
 
Chesh said:
i like chatting to older ravers about the pills back in the day

personally i think the most likely reason is that back then they'd do pills every weekend because there wasn't much harm reduction knowledge and they've just lost the magic, so when they do good pills or mdma now it's not the same for them.
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Disagree here. Back then we had pills that you didn't build up much to a tolerance to. Remember, back in the early to mid 90s in the UK, dance/e/raves was huge. There were many more club nights and going out every single week was quite standard. I never built up a tolerance, the come up was slightly less intense but the buzz was EXACTLY THE SAME. And you had the added quality of looking forward to taking E at the weekends = no difference in overall quality of buzz!

The new Yellow Rockstars seem to be proving themselves as old skool a little - super super strong, and my regular 100+ pill per year friends have been smashing them and say they are just amazing, they have the magic again! Not only that a 1/2 then a re-dose of 1/2 brings you right up to the full trip again, superior re-dosing. So I still say tolerance to MDMA depends on the pills a lot. Also remember people used to go raving Friday and Saturday night every week. Or go to 12 hour raves. To do this you need strong strong drugs.

And as for old skool ravers - well, new skool ravers wouldn't exist without us old skoolers paying door fees and buying gear back in the day. The whole thing would've fell on it's arse. Sorry, it was a pure empathy vibe back then 100%. That is now sadly missing - can someone put the empathy back in the pills please?
 
Year of the Rat said:
Is anyone else sick and tired of hearing slightly older ravers bang on and on about how good pills used to be? Do they realise how old it makes them sound, and that those of us who didn't have the pleasure don't want to hear about it?

My theory is that the quality of pills has always massively varied and the ones available last decade or the decade before or the decade before weren't necessarily better than the ones now. It's just that these clubbers have built up too much of a tolerance from years and years of hammering it.
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I took a 15 year break. And the new pills were a fckin lager-shandy/coors light. They are still good, but just weaker. And upside of not being trashed for like a whole week is something I think is an acceptable trade off.
 
It's just those people that can't find good dutch pills or good crystal MDMA that complain about today's MDMA being crap.

Change your dealers people!
 
BluLait said:
It's just those people that can't find good dutch pills or good crystal MDMA that complain about today's MDMA being crap.

Change your dealers people!
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Yes, so true. I'd love to try a defcon/speaker or blue nike.

It is quite hard to score decent pills here, and we have 2 choices - green squares or rockstars.
 
those lacostes would have put a jaw on =D

overall the quality is wayyy down, however i imagine the good shit is still floating around just in smaller circles...no doubt
 
wtf are you people talking about?
there is a shitload of cheap crystal and mints all over europe, not to mention holland and the UK.

where are the people complaining about MDMA from?
I bet you they are from the US.
 
futura2012 said:
Wow rock on blue defqons.

Lacostes standard seems to have dropped. A mere 148.7mG LOL.

BLUE DEFQON 203mG MDMA tried and tested!!

http://www.saferparty.ch/tl_files/images/download/file/Warnungen_PDF_2012/MDMA_hoch_Aug_2012_1.pdf

I havent found a 90s pill with this much MDMA in it yet..
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yes...but this is quite a new occurance as MDMA pills go and it is very localized. there aren't a whole lot of these high MDMA pills making it out of Europe let alone across the pond to the US. If it was common all over the world to have pills with 120mg+ in them I could see towing the line for todays pills being better than the 90's vintage but if you average it all out a vew great pills do not make up for all the crap thats out there.

As for old guys touting the quality of 90's pills....I haven't rolled in 12 years now so i don't know any better (or worse). All I know is what I can hear from others that roll today and the consensus is ...the quality has gone in the shitter.
 
matt2012 said:
As for old guys touting the quality of 90's pills....I haven't rolled in 12 years now so i don't know any better (or worse). All I know is what I can hear from others that roll today and the consensus is ...the quality has gone in the shitter.
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More labs. There are pretty much 40-50 types of pills available in the UK right now. That means variety of quality. Even if a lab makes good stuff, the distribution network is limited.

But wind it back to 1994 - your choices were Doves, Squares and Snowballs. Less labs. When you have a big organised crime syndicate running things, you get a better product as they are looking at things in a much longer term view and have a bigger distribution network.

People argue my brain has been hammered. Well, in that case, why aren't all the youngsters I see in the club bouncing off the walls hugging eachother and being super friendly like in 94? Quality of pills is defo down, but there ARE some good ones out there defcons/nikes etc. I also think the Rockstar type pills flooding our area are MDE and quite kinda 'wasted' feeling.
 
As a Dutch person, I can relate to this. These latest pills, like the Speaker, Defqon's and Triforces are indeed very, very good. Most hitting the 200mg mark, they are very clean and are really awesome. However, the duration is just crap.
I have yet to try it on a non-empty stomach, but one pill will give me a peak of 2 hours or so. From what I have understand, adding MDEA/MDA will significantly increase duration. So, why won't they do it ? I would be more happy to have a 100mg MDMA + 50mg MDA pill then one of 200mg MDMA. I mean, prices for these pills are ridiculously cheap. It's a steal. Why not make them somewhat more expensive, and add some MDEA/MDA ?
 
toastmann said:
As a Dutch person, I can relate to this. These latest pills, like the Speaker, Defqon's and Triforces are indeed very, very good. Most hitting the 200mg mark, they are very clean and are really awesome. However, the duration is just crap.
I have yet to try it on a non-empty stomach, but one pill will give me a peak of 2 hours or so. From what I have understand, adding MDEA/MDA will significantly increase duration. So, why won't they do it ? I would be more happy to have a 100mg MDMA + 50mg MDA pill then one of 200mg MDMA. I mean, prices for these pills are ridiculously cheap. It's a steal. Why not make them somewhat more expensive, and add some MDEA/MDA ?
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I agree. Pills of today have a duration 2 hours max. Most of the ones I get are 75-90mins. I got 2 hours by taking 1.5, but I was a bit too wasted briefly so obv reaching my MDMA limit.

A lot of speculation is old 90s pills had MDA in them - and definitely more amphet. Giving a longer duration.

If you consider the base cost of a pill - £15 / 13 euros in 1991, well today that same pill would be about 30 euros. That is too much for the consumers. Instead, we buy shorter duration pills and are expected to take multiple re-doses through the night.
 
I have no idea what you people are talking about.... I get like 4 hour rolls at least. My last roll I took some MDA and it lasted a good 5 hours I would say


If you consider the base cost of a pill - £15 / 13 euros in 1991, well today that same pill would be about 30 euros. That is too much for the consumers.
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I kind of agree with this, most users won't want to buy one expensive pill... even if the dose make it MORE than worth it. The people here in Seattle would rather buy 4 piperazine/meth bombs than a 200mg Defqon that's twice as strong as a cap of "molly" they buy around here for the same price.
 
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I think if we say a Defqon is bunk thats just not a valid argument.

Its one of the strongest and purest MDMA pills produced to date how can that be bunk?

Due to long term come down reasons I cant take MDMA pills anymore but when I did last year they lasted longer than two hours thats for sure.

Peak maybe two hours but you can feel the effect of one of those for at least 4-5+

In some ways you could say the dutch super pills are better than ever before. Cleanly made, high in strength and well pressed so harder to copy.

If you want adulterant just buy the relevant powder and mix to taste.

Not all of us like METH or MDA.
 
futura2012 said:
I think if we say a Defqon is bunk thats just not a valid argument.

Its one of the strongest and purest MDMA pills produced to date how can that be bunk?
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how do you know, for sure, that the defqon the reader holds in his or her hand is the same quality as your (awesome) defqon? the simple answer is that you don't.

is there a higher chance that it is not bunk? probably but assuming that what's on a pill confidently describes what's in a pill is just not good hr.

alasdair
 
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