Back in my day...

[Year of the Rat]

Is anyone else sick and tired of hearing slightly older ravers bang on and on about how good pills used to be? Do they realise how old it makes them sound, and that those of us who didn't have the pleasure don't want to hear about it?

My theory is that the quality of pills has always massively varied and the ones available last decade or the decade before or the decade before weren't necessarily better than the ones now. It's just that these clubbers have built up too much of a tolerance from years and years of hammering it.

 

[blah blah]

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/631070-How-we-rolled-in-the-90s-when-the-pills-were-super-strong

Take the time to read through this thread bro. It's not a tolerance issue. People that haven't rolled in 10+ years have said the same thing once they rolled again on today's gear. It is a highly substantiated thread so I do recommend reading through it all and it may change your perception on the matter.

 

[futura2012]

If your sick and tired of hearing about this why make a thread discussing it???

Your theory has been mentioned before in the "pills in the 90s" thread and has been dismissed with a lot of theoretical and practical discussion from many older and younger people.

Why not visit there and respond to suggestions about isomers, salts, crystalisation, synthesis methods, dosage, adulterants etc.

Looks to me like you dont want a discussion your just looking for argument.

 

[yanker]

Yea let's take him out back and pants him and hang him by his balls!!

 

[LuGoJ]

Is anyone else sick and tired of hearing slightly older ravers bang on and on about how good pills used to be? Do they realise how old it makes them sound, and that those of us who didn't have the pleasure don't want to hear about it?

My theory is that the quality of pills has always massively varied and the ones available last decade or the decade before or the decade before weren't necessarily better than the ones now. It's just that these clubbers have built up too much of a tolerance from years and years of hammering it.

Not really, I enjoy reminiscing and I have always enjoyed listening to people older than me reminisce about their good old days.

I just enjoy listening to other people and their stories.

 

[Chesh]

i like chatting to older ravers about the pills back in the day

personally i think the most likely reason is that back then they'd do pills every weekend because there wasn't much harm reduction knowledge and they've just lost the magic, so when they do good pills or mdma now it's not the same for them.

 

[blah blah]

Not the case chesh. I rolled 10-12 times from 2001-2009, 8 or so of em between 2001 and 2003, and it wasn't until 2009 when I noticed the change. Each roll after 2003 had 2 year breaks inbetween. My first time back in 2009, over 2 years since my last roll in 07, wasn't the same and not since, but 1 time earlier this year at the height of my MDMA abuse. It's not the gear either as we've already covered before. There's too many people who have had years worth of breaks until now and they say the same thing. It's different.

 

[dezz]

Except that when they explain why they were better and how it was magical, that still happens today, and I get all the effects and such they are so thrilled about. I'd guess there's just ALOT more crap floating around these days. Just take a look at the psych section. So many threads about 5nbmox6e, or Xsz5-ez.... I don't know wtf is going on but there are ALOT of research chemicals and whatnot around and theres more popping up constantly. I agree that the mdma has gone to shit in some parts of the world, but claming good pills if you do find them are shit compaired to the old days is bullshit imo...

 

[blah blah]

Nobody ever said the good pills of today are shit. I enjoy the piss out of em. To quote what I said in the other thread, "dont get me wrong, rolling today is still a fantastic time, its just missing the certain "umph" of intense love we grew to know everytime back then." I've never once complained about the feeling of rolling on today's gear, I've simply only stated my own observation that there is a difference in the intensity and duration in the roll from pills back then.

 

[dezz]

Yeah but I feel intense love for everyone each time I roll, on today's pills :'), however I wasn't there in the old days so maybe your right. How long do your rolls last from todays pills? I roll a good 6-7 hours off 1 and redose 0,5.

 

[yanker]

Y aren't my rolls as strong or as intense as even 3 yrs ago? Is it because it was my first time? Idk but I've had some of the strongest pills on the market in the last year and they don't compare to my first experience of 3 gladies. I say I get half way to that feeling but never back to that moment of true bliss. And tolerance isn't an issue as I only roll every other month or so. Maybe its because my first time I didn't know what to expect and it was all new to me. But I've never gotten eye wiggles again never gotten teeth chatters again and the body high was just so fucking amazing that first night. I wouldn't shut up bout never wanting that feeling to go away. Now I'm like yea I feel good but I could take it or leave it.

 

[Folley]

Idk but I've had some of the strongest pills on the market in the last year and they don't compare to my first experience of 3 gladies. I say I get half way to that feeling but never back to that moment of true bliss.

I think the answer to this is obvious.

And tolerance isn't an issue as I only roll every other month or so

It takes 3 months for serotonin to be able to recover to anywhere near normal levels, 6 months before it is functioning the way it used too. New info has come out saying that serotonin production is completely shut down for 3 months after your roll, after that is when TPH (responsible for 5-HT production) comes back into play.

So it is "tolerance".. IE down regulation, or brain "damage".

 

[benson7]

The whole argument is rubbish, MDMA now is exactly how it used to be back then. MDA and amphetamine was more common in pills in the UK "back in the day" which gave the pill more oomph. Plus a teenager taking it MDMA with his friends for the first few times will always get more out of it then someone in their 30's whose dosed 50 to a 100 times.

 

[mj1945]

I agree all the e pills are garbage like 50 percent have any mdma in em if your lucky, I'd say closer to 30 percent. I have no clue where all you guys are from but there is an abundance of very good molly in Canada. I don't buy any crap that the old stuff is better, you ain't getting the real deal or your just not looking in the right places. Lots of things go into it but if your going to say the precursors are harder to get you can still get safrole from extracting the roots from a sassafrass tree. I'm no chemist but I also know we produce a large majority of mdma. There's not many ppl selling e here it's all molly, and yes it can be easily adultered but you know when you got the real deal. I've never seen so many ppl as loved up to complete strangers as the stuff i get, so look for a new guy if you got problems.

 

[blah blah]

Even the best of rolls over the last few years have been 5-6 hours tops and that's after a re-dose 90 minutes into the roll. That includes comedown to sober. I have no doubt the love is there and is intense for most, but that is all up to the users perception of what "intense" is. If you've never experienced a greater intensity that supercedes the highest high that you have had, then your perception is that it cannot get more intense and that is where your ceiling is.

But for those that have experienced such levels of that intensity, they can gauge between the levels as the ceiling is higher and not being reached.

Dezz the rolls back then lasted roughly 4 hours off of one pill at a crazy level of intensity BEFORE it even starting coming down. We would re-dose a second pill 3 hours after the roll had started and remained at that extreme level for 7-8 hours before the comedown started. Again I know my Meth and MDA feels as they are a regular addition to my rolls today, yet they feel nothing like what the feel was then, not even close.

...a teenager taking it MDMA with his friends for the first few times will always get more out of it then someone in their 30's whose dosed 50 to a 100 times.

Do some of you not read prior posts before responding? It's getting aggravating having to repeat myself like a broken record, the same thing I said multiple times before responding to the same statements and how they don't fit the argument. It's the same "tolerance" song n dance.

 

[Folley]

I've read the whole thread, both of them. I still agree with him.



Blah, I seem to remember that you have also abused methamphetamine... this is going to cause a loss of the magic to MDMA as well. Meth releases dopamine in high amounts as I'm sure you know, but it also can stimulate release of Norepinephrine (responsible for many of MDMA's effects, possibly the reason why MDMA is not as effective when snorted as well) and most likely Prolactin and Oxytocin as well (two chemicals that are VERY important to the magic of MDMA, they are responsible for causing feelings of love [1] and are released during orgasms [2]

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/28/oxytocin-long-love-study_n_1307944.html
[2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11166491



Add that to serotonin down regulation that WILL come from MDMA abuse, and you have loss of the magic, which will make the pills taken before this happened seem much better, obviously.

 

[blah blah]

I haven't touched meth, other than mixed with my rolls, since 2003. I still had intensely loved up experiences from MDMA long after that and don't forget the Mints in January. For people I know that have tried both dutch presses and mints, most all still choose a double drop of the Mints to roll on if they have the choice. There is something to the roll off Mints that makes them preferred, myself included in that group.

But MDMA is MDMA, right?! :/

The point I'm making is showing such discrepancies in MDMA. Even the Q-Dances and Defqons have gotten largely different feedback from multiple users and they were nothing but a stank dose of MDMA pumped out by the same crew. So if there can be such a large difference in effects from one MDMA only pill to the next, how is it hard to believe that there is something different now than then?

There could very well be something to futura's findings on MDMA coming in different salts and being absorbed differently by the body. It could be smart economics by chemists and pressers to create and distribute MDMA HCL only as it doesn't last as long leaving you wanting more, but still caring enough to make the good shit instead of garbage. It's just a thought I had anyway.

Are the GC/MS tests able to discern what kind of salt it would be formed as, or only read the MDMA side of things, minus the salt coupler? It's possible that may be the reason why rolls then had such endurance in comparison. I dunno. I'm just spitballing.

 

[Year of the Rat]

To be honest I was a bit annoyed when I started the thread because I'd just had an argument about a similar issue, and i didn't mean to be quite so confrontational about it, but I wanted to make two points. First of all, there's a massive spectrum of pill quality now, and I assume that it was the same then. It's not like there were pills back then with amounts of MDMA you could never find in pills now. Maybe there's more being produced, so the average quality has dipped. Secondly, I find that people incessantly go on about it - "Pills today are shit" etc. And some of them are only a few years older than me (I'm not just discriminating against older ravers) so it's absurd to suggest that pills were great until around the time I started doing it and then they were all shit. I've seen people really moan about it and have frequently been sent under by it when I was trying to have a good time, so it's something of a pet hate of mine.

 

[Folley]

Are the GC/MS tests able to discern what kind of salt it would be formed as, or only read the MDMA side of things, minus the salt coupler? It's possible that may be the reason why rolls then had such endurance in comparison. I dunno. I'm just spitballing.

When you test a pill it reads as MDMA hydrochloride, the HCL molecule is directly bound to the MDMA molecule creating a new "different' chemical... but it's still technically the same. You can very much tell them apart with a GC/MS test though.

The point I'm making is showing such discrepancies in MDMA. Even the Q-Dances and Defqons have gotten largely different feedback from multiple users and they were nothing but a stank dose of MDMA pumped out by the same crew. So if there can be such a large difference in effects from one MDMA only pill to the next, how is it hard to believe that there is something different now than then?

That's just it though. If EVERY batch of MDMA is different from the last, how could EVERY batch then be different from EVERY batch now? The methods of making MDMA vary soooo much, and not everyone is going to use the same one.

What's really changed since then? Nothing but your brain...

 

[Flailing_Gypsy]

Well, ecstasy in the 90s was without a doubt adulterated as well but not to the extent that most ecstasy is now. Most E and M nowadays have more fillers and adulterants in them than actual MDMA. I've noticed the quality of MDMA go down even since I started doing it just 6 years ago, and it's definitely not a matter of tolerance for me, I usually space my rolls out by months and even went an entire year without doing any M or E. It's just an unfortunate fact that the quality of most E is shit now. It is definitely still possible to find good E and M and roll as hard as they did in the 90s though. It's still out there, just harder to come across. When you do, cherish it...