Athiests and NA... can it work?

[Captain.Heroin]

I've been to quite a few NA meetings, but I've always struggled with their spiritual philosophy, and the whole "higher power" thing. They say anyone is welcome to attend NA, regardless of their religion or lack thereof, but I'm really not sure how an athiest like myself would fit in. I've thought of using a different "higher power"... instead of a god, I'd be thinking of an idealised version of myself - clean, sober, and healthy. But I dunno. Are there any athiests who attend NA, and how do you deal with all the spiritual stuff? And what is your "higher power"?

"Higher power" can mean whatever you want it to mean.

As a pantheist, I believe everyone (that has a soul) is a part of God, or is God, in a sense.

If you don't believe in a higher power, then just believe in yourself as a higher power.

I am an athiest/forced christian
...
i would love to see a religion develop based on the sole purpose of morality and kindness, not praying to jesus and making sacrifices and purity rings.

You will find philosophies, but not religions that reflect those ideals.

With all due respect, I hope your close-minded attitude doesnt interfere with your progress on being sober too buddy! Of coure I say that in a nice Christian way! =]

"NO U" is not a good comeback, try harder.

Plus, OverDone is not closed-minded. You can say "I say that in a nice Christian way" but what does that mean to someone who's being belittled by an extremist?

It's just intimidation, and we are not intimidated.

Just like everything else this nation was built upon Christiany.

No, the founding fathers were mostly not Christians. They were mostly agnostic and/or atheist. Very few were protestants.

Thanks, but try again. The United States is one of the worst countries IMO. If it really is founded on Christianity (it's not) then I would have to deduct God left us all many, many hundreds of years ago.

Now you cant say God in the plege in school. Kids cant read bibles in schools. Weve kicked God out of everything in this nation, Weve asked God to leave and he has!! Thats why we are in the MESS we are in now!

Reading bibles in school is a waste of time, you're there to learn.

Saying "God" does not demand he "be there" for you and save you from the "mess" you're in.

You're very closed minded and this isn't a productive, nor on-topic post.

unless you count prostitute, dealer, hustler, meth cook, and so on.

Those are totally counted as jobs. Prostitution is partially legal in Nevada. (And this person tells me this country was founded on Christianity? Well that would mean God has left us all, or he endorses prostitution!)

At least you don't have to pay taxes on your earnings!

in NA and AA you can make the actual program your God.

Enjoy worshiping a false idol! According to your religion (not mine) you're going to hell!

Enjoy being tormented by the non-existent Satan himself!

 

[oxymoron310]

You should stand up and tell them that they are full of shit and shouldn't be telling you what to believe. Don't say it like that, but just tell them that they shouldn't be pushing this on you.
If they can't help you... write a complaint, say "I'd rather be addicted than have to put up with [insert name here]s BS". Wether thats true or not, thats what I would do. Not sure if that would actually get anything done.

 

[IAMWHY]

Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the Life.

From my understanding in NA and AA you can make the actual program your God.

Ohhhhh Lord.

Jesus Christ was awesome and he still is, but don't you sit here and act like you know what he was all about.
[please refrain from making personal attacks towards other members, thank you - n3o]
Read up on the fact that the King James version was adulterated from it's original form in Hebrew, and then you can represent Christ accurately...

A program cannot be a "God" for several reasons:

A program is only as good as the people who are running it, and you should know that humans are imperfect and judgmental, and thus would make a very poor God.

From what I understand, if you don't buy into the little "God in a box" as your "quick fix" instead of whatever drug you are trying to rid your life of, you are cast out and looked down upon by those in charge of NA. God would never endorse brainwashing, and that's all NA can do for people.... try to force God down their throat instead of teaching the values that are SUPPOSE to be represented in the individual. But of course, in order for those NA folks to be able to actually help people, they would have had to self-actualize as individuals, instead of cowering behind their incorrectly translated Bibles.

People don't need NA, they need support from people who genuinely care. Those at NA are only concerned with feeling better about themselves than the 'poor helpless junkies' they so pompously believe they have the power to change.

NEWSFLASH: People don't change other people, individuals make decisions in their own lives to change themselves.

 

[Sweet P]

Those are totally counted as jobs. Prostitution is partially legal in Nevada. (And this person tells me this country was founded on Christianity? Well that would mean God has left us all, or he endorses prostitution!)

At least you don't have to pay taxes on your earnings!

I'm no longer prostituting, but it's legal in my country too.

And yep, it was a good way to earn big bucks and not pay any taxes.

 

[OverDone]

Please don't spread misinformation. Educate yourself with experience and then state what you have learned from actual facts.

From what I understand, if you don't buy into the little "God in a box" as your "quick fix" instead of whatever drug you are trying to rid your life of,

You can be any religion or have no religion at all in NA

you are cast out and looked down upon by those in charge of NA

People are not cast out of NA and there is no one in charge either.

God would never endorse brainwashing, and that's all NA can do for people

I don't know anyone who is brainwashed in the program

instead of cowering behind their incorrectly translated Bibles

Any bible or 'holy book' has no place in any NA meeting. Some find that religion is an excellent accessory to 12 Step programs but they are separate entities and not to be confused for one another

People don't need NA, they need support from people who genuinely care

Most genuinely do care about others and service to others is strongly suggested

Those at NA are only concerned with feeling better about themselves than the 'poor helpless junkies'

NA members consist of addicts of all kinds (junkies, crack heads, pill heads, potheads, etc.) and no one is 'helpless'

 

[jspun]

Absolutely you can be an atheist an attend NA. AA for that matter too, they devote a chapter called we agnostics. Anyway, the basis for NAs ability to keep people stay clean is learning to live a spiritual way of life through working the 12 steps. Some choose the group as there higher power but my definition of spirituality is how you treat yourself and others. This does not require a belief in God, a creator, ect...I know several staunch atheists who are doing great. Religion is rare (organized)- most choose a secular "God of there own understanding"

When anyone tells you you have to do this or that. Makes you make a promise to stay clean or sign a pledge-tell them to fuck off. Everyone is allowed to believe what they want. Its a program of spiritual action- through wrking the steps. The group collectively is a power greator than yourself. The atheists I am thinking off has 6 years clean and just left to get his PH.D in philosophy. Could barely put 2 sentences together when he got clean. Still is an atheists.

Short answer- atheists and especially those still using are welcome to the meetings. Trying to convert someone to atheism, though is frowned upon the same way that converting one to christianity at the meetings. There are geographic nuances, peculiarities but this is the official position. Come to believe that the process will restore you to sanity is my rec for what it works. Haven't used meth, EtOH, and heroin or coke, or any illegal drugs in 18 months today. Take sub and xanax but the panic attacks/depression I get is crippling and i didn't start them until I had been clean 1 year and was slidding toward suicide thoughts and feeling like i was going to lose my mind through the panic attacks.

Good luck Sweet P- you got the spirituality in you-I can tell from your posts.
May the Good in others bless you!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I'm no longer prostituting, but it's legal in my country too.

And yep, it was a good way to earn big bucks and not pay any taxes.

I didn't know it is legal in your country, I guess I learn something new every day.

Glad to hear you're not doing that anymore P! You've made some great improvements for your life.

 

[jspun]

You should stand up and tell them that they are full of shit and shouldn't be telling you what to believe. Don't say it like that, but just tell them that they shouldn't be pushing this on you.
If they can't help you... write a complaint, say "I'd rather be addicted than have to put up with [insert name here]s BS". Wether thats true or not, thats what I would do. Not sure if that would actually get anything done.

My recommendation would be to say it exactly like that. If they are pushing stuff on you find another meeting is my suggestion. People in nA like truth and bluntness not civility and decorum- this aint church. To this poster there is no one really to write to. World services could be a place to address it but NA is leaderless aside from a board of trustees and they can't make changes without the approval of the world service organization- a kind of parliament that meets every 2 years i think. The trustees are an anonymous board that help run the day to day administration- met a few in Chastworth- good guys. This is the body that holds executive power- its kind of like Switzerland how keeps there head of state a secret although there the trade off every 6 months. The highest authority in NA is you the addict. If you don't agree with something don't do it otherwise it will get more and more cultish. NA has the obligation to take every viewpoint into consideration and not only allows, cherishes the minority view- this is like the 9th or 10th concept. Don't worry about the concepts or traditions just belive in yourself first and that you can't use drugs without drugs using you and kicking your ass every time and you should get off to a good start. If you can't kick keep going to meetings and tell people your loaded and want help. Keep comming back- I promise- you do that as often as you can not only will you get clean eventually you'll learn to stay that way 1 day at a time working the steps. Most important-keep comming back no mater what. If you have to lie, lie your ass off just be honest with yourself- thats an important key to this progrm.

 

[WSB15]

I think going to NA can help even if you're an atheist. I would only go rarely and never worked the program or anything, but I think you can get a lot out of it, including:
-Being able to talk to people who understand drug addiction (but aren't using)
-General social support...having people acknowledge your clean time, encourage you, help you if you aren't staying out of trouble
-Just being able to vent if you have a shitty day (its therapeutic)
-Maybe make new drug-free friends

There's also things that annoy me about NA, like the "spiritual" aspect, their anti-methadone/bupe position, and insistence that all addicts should avoid alcohol (some should, others can have a few socially and it never becomes an issue). But all in all I think pretty much any addict can benefit from NA.

 

[Sweet P]

^ I don't think the anti-methadone/bupe position is a general rule throughout NA.

I know several people in my group are on methadone, and nobody seems to mind.

 

[n3ophy7e]

IAMWHY and Sececa, please refrain from any heated religious debate in this thread, both of you.
The beauty of the idea of religion is that NOBODY IS RIGHT OR WRONG!!!!
Undermining other's views and beliefs will not be tolerated.
Thanks.

 

[Sweet P]

Yeah, c'mon guys. I started this thread looking for the opinions/experiences of atheists and agnostics who attend NA. I didn't ask for the Jesus freaks to start preaching to me about things I don't believe in.

 

[lestahb]

AA / NA helped me a lot, and I just used the group as a 'higher power'. In that, I wanted what those who had gone before me had. I honestly think the best part of it was likeminded people who understood, and a little order. Idles hands, etc. It filled part of my day, gave me a schedule and that helped a lot coming off of meth. I worked too, 16-20 hours a week, not much and it was exhausting. After that, and meetings, I didn't have any energy left. It was like my body wanted to catch up on all the sleep I had missed out on tweeking.

 

[FloridaHighs]

Jesus christ (no pun, well pun intended )

i just read over all of this (im tweaking) and listening to you sober people whine about religion, religion = war (Crusades), manipulation (Divine Rulers, Messiahs, the Catholic Church ruling the world), and arguing (this thread) and its been going on since man found out he could blame all the unexplained things on a "higher power",

so, if we could move on and close this thread, on a count of babbling and ranting (haha i felt like law and order) please this isnt going anywhere productive.

As i like to say, dont fight the nod fight the god (there is no god so its like fighting nothing haha)

Peace - FH

 

[Sweet P]

^ Move on and close this thread? Why? There's been some great replies here, and I'm sure there will be a few more. Maybe you should re-read this thread and post something more constructive when you're not "tweaking" (by the way, triggering/glorifying remarks like that are generally frowned upon in this forum - especially by addicts like me who are trying hard to quit that shit).

 

[b4rd]

Jesus christ (no pun, well pun intended )

so, if we could move on and close this thread, on a count of babbling and ranting (haha i felt like law and order.)

Jesus christ. You know what I'm intending.

 

[RedLeader]

Everyone...Can we please get back to the heart of this thread? Meaning whether it's a disadvantage or not to enter AA/NA as an atheist, given the group's atmosphere and such? Broader arguments over religions and the merits or pitfalls of them don't really belong here. Please try to keep the talk to issues directly interwoven with AA/NA mettings, or else posts might start vanishing quicker than Christ from his tomb

Thanks in advance. It is a good topic for discussion, let's just not let it get out-of-control

 

[Wizzle]

I get really annoyed when people start talking about their religion. People tell you you should respect religion, but most religious people don't respect agnostics. So I would never join a group that has people openly talking about their faith, not to offend but it just sounds really silly to me.

 

[Binge Artist]

Everyone...Can we please get back to the heart of this thread? Meaning whether it's a disadvantage or not to enter AA/NA as an atheist, given the group's atmosphere and such? Broader arguments over religions and the merits or pitfalls of them don't really belong here. Please try to keep the talk to issues directly interwoven with AA/NA mettings, or else posts might start vanishing quicker than Christ from his tomb

I think the problem you're describing is kinda ironically the problem that religion and NA generate.


See what I'm saying? This thread, just like AA and NA, has religious untertones. And what happens? A big conflict over religion arises. Things get blown out of proportion.


See, religion is such a volitile topic that, even when it's totally implicit, like in the case of NA, it naturally sparks conflict and controversy.

 

[crazynate:]]

^because some people live for religion (I personally live for music ) and feel they have to defend it as if their life depended on it (when in a sense, it does)... FloridaHighs, totally agree with you that religion=war, to me, religion is man's way of controlling people by using the "rules" from a religion as a guideline, which isn't all that bad (cause sometimes people need guidance) but in the end, I say religion is what you make of it and as far as later, nobody knows... Just be happy, help others around you, and don't judge. These are my guidelines, no religion involved

(sorry for being off topic of the OP!)