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Are we living according to a script?

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BottleInABottle

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
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I would like peoples opinions regarding wheter we are living precisely to some script or not. AKA, The discussion I want to bring about is about predetermination, the thought that everything happening in this world is just following and following instructions according to some kind of complex algorithm, making the result predictable. I've had this thought for a while ever since I started doubting if we really have that free-will everyone are talking about. I think free will is just an illusion, just like how this world is an illusion.

Please, I am really interested to hear what you think about this matter.
 
We are writing the script. People like to make sense of things by writing coherent logical stories. That is the script, and only the script. All interpretation of the known facts is done retrospectively, to fit into trends that we would like to see. Unfortunately this leads us to the idea that there is no free will, because physics wants to make a coherent story of everything. But this is an arbitrary position in itself. An illogical story could equally well be constructed. And then you would have free will. Since both are equally arbitrary, and could be used to describe the same known facts of the world, you do have free will. It's just at how you look at the problem. Viewed from a different perspective, the problem goes away.
 
derekseyes said:
We are writing the script. People like to make sense of things by writing coherent logical stories. That is the script, and only the script. All interpretation of the known facts is done retrospectively, to fit into trends that we would like to see. Unfortunately this leads us to the idea that there is no free will, because physics wants to make a coherent story of everything. But this is an arbitrary position in itself. An illogical story could equally well be constructed. And then you would have free will. Since both are equally arbitrary, and could be used to describe the same known facts of the world, you do have free will. It's just at how you look at the problem. Viewed from a different perspective, the problem goes away.
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But isn't this simply an illusion of that we are interpreting things our own way. It may be in fact that we from the beginning were determined to do so. Think about it. If we have two choices, then obviously we think we are making the decision, but in reality are not. Its our brain that makes the choice, nothing else. Because we work in the same manner as machines programmed to act in a certain way, it just feels like it's impossible we are powered by free-will.

I have another example. I've been experiencing a helluva lot of synchronicites like the ones mentioned in this post as of late. It's as if it was decided all from the beginning that these things would occur perfectly timed to events that relates to it in some way. If we did have free-will, synchronicities would not occur... at all.
 
BottleInABottle said:
Because we work in the same manner as machines programmed to act in a certain way, it just feels like it's impossible we are powered by free-will.
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this is not true. machines process information through formal symbol manipulation. a program responds as a trigger from inputs to result in certain predictable output. there is neither meaning content or intentions therein, both of which exist in our minds.
 
L2R said:
this is not true. machines process information through formal symbol manipulation. a program responds as a trigger from inputs to result in certain predictable output. there is neither meaning content or intentions therein, both of which exist in our minds.
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Exactly, a machine follows certain instructions on how to handle the given input for a resulting outcome. In its lowest form, this is done by sending and receiving numbers consisting of ones and zeroes to/from all of the components. Likewise, don't you think our brain would be functioning in a similar manner? Im just assuming it processes the information in bits too, because our brain, a huuuge network of neurons which is either 1 or 0 depending on state, when sending/transmitting info is 1 and when resting, obviously 0. So if we are to take this as truth, we think in 1s and 0s, just like machines. And while we aren't receiving input from a mouse or keyboard, we do still receive input from our envriornment.

The only difference I see between a human and a machine is that
1. We are much more eco
2. We were invented by God
 
When it comes down to it, when you strip away all the wishful thinking and human narcissism, human beings are essentially robots/machines. Free-will can not be exercised by machines. Is there room for free-will at all in the human experience? Yes. But it is something that very few ever get to experience because it requires a monumental shift in being.

EDIT: I also think people willfully ignore (now there's a paradox to contemplate) the inherent and obvious intelligent design in nature because it also exposes this idea that things are very mechanical and predetermined. Humans want to believe they are in control, that they are driven by their unique nature and not a set of natural laws, because the opposite thought scares them.. that they are not in control and never have been, that they are just puppets being moved by forces to which they have no control over either.

I've had precognitive dreams many times which also suggests a predetermined experience.. and the feeling that I've been here before is something I've felt even from early childhood. I felt this was confirmed when I tried NN-DMT for the first time.. that existence is meaningless, a self sustaining and whole mathematical-like abberation, an infinity of mirrors experience.

People dare not consider free-will an illusion because it invalidates their hollow lives and all their striving. Humans love fantasy and imagination, not reality.
 
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Even if we did have free-will, then what does will it? And to make it even more complicated, what wills the will of the free-will? And... yeah, you get it. We can continue on and on without reaching a dead end, making it into an infinite process. However... on the contrary, if it is the soul that gives us free-will, then we can't question it any further, because the soul is simply energy. Energy is the ultimate life source so there is nothing beyond it, defining energy as God imo.

I am not sure if anyone here will believe this, but an angel has been playing around with my computer for a little while now, including other electronical devices too. If angels (that we can define as some type of spirits) can play around with machines, it means they can also play around with our brain. Keep in mind that even the soul can be seen as a type of spirit, so if we bear that in mind, my final conclusion, although it may be a bit vague, is that the soul is actually mounted to our brain and is controlling it. I think souls too can think, because they are the ones who make the choices.
 
BottleInABottle said:
Exactly, a machine follows certain instructions on how to handle the given input for a resulting outcome. In its lowest form, this is done by sending and receiving numbers consisting of ones and zeroes to/from all of the components. Likewise, don't you think our brain would be functioning in a similar manner? Im just assuming it processes the information in bits too, because our brain, a huuuge network of neurons which is either 1 or 0 depending on state, when sending/transmitting info is 1 and when resting, obviously 0. So if we are to take this as truth, we think in 1s and 0s, just like machines. And while we aren't receiving input from a mouse or keyboard, we do still receive input from our envriornment.

The only difference I see between a human and a machine is that
1. We are much more eco
2. We were invented by God
Click to expand...

please re-read what i wrote. i don't think you understood it.pay close attention to the part on meaning and intention. i am saying we are clearly NOT like computers.
 
L2R said:
please re-read what i wrote. i don't think you understood it.pay close attention to the part on meaning and intention. i am saying we are clearly NOT like computers.
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Sorry, I didn't really understand that sentence in your previous reply in my post. Language is my weak spot... x_x

Yeah sure - one may commonly, if not almost always, assume that a machine does not have any intentions. But what if that assumption is wrong? A machine may also have a mind, where it believes its doing say a file transfer between disk C and D with intention. I know it sounds crazy, and this is just one of my many crazy thoughts, but I just have to say - think about it. In us humans case the input is made from our enviornment. Without any input, our brain would not process any kind of information which outputs the result, because there is nothing to read. And what is the source of the input? Yep, the enviornment. The part of it that we can sense is just a really, really small one of this infinity. Infinity is God, the enviornment is God. Now that can be a simple explanation as to why the soul may be a part of God.

Basically God controls us, so we are machines in that sense, and it's pretty funny how we can be seen as the soul to all electronical devices that are controllable.
 
Sorry, but that isn't an assumption. Through the processes of software alone, there is no space for either meaning or intention. if you ask a calculator what 2 + 2 is, it only responds in accordance with a set of rules governing a set of symbols. it has no understanding of what a numeric 2 or a + means. it just reacts.

although i don't entire agree with it's conclusions, the following illustrates this point fairly well. see john searle's "the chinese room" example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room
 
are you saying since we can't apply minds to computers, we therefore must reduce minds to mere computers? i don't quite agree with that logic.
 
L2R said:
are you saying since we can't apply minds to computers, we therefore must reduce minds to mere computers? i don't quite agree with that logic.
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At the same time, it seems that by your logic, because our cognition contains something more than that of the machines we've created, our cognition isn't mechanistic. I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. That meaning and intention aren't present in lower machines doesn't necessitate that our brains don't function in a similar manner to (but perhaps to a much more advanced degree) machines.
 
My belief is that you create a blueprint for what you are meant to do in this life before you are born, but you are given a diverse array of choices in how you can live out those lessons. In other words, you are born into an essentially free system with countless possibilities existing within chaos, but you have a sort of subtle programming that clues you in to taking certain pathways. It's why people tend to end up in the same kind of situations over and over again - the universe will keep giving it to them until they finally learn.

It's a co-creative process that is neither pure determinism or free will. It's both because the Divine is both. When you deal with the Divine you are dealing with paradox. Humans have a pure intuition that is contained with in a vehicle driven by ego, so the two have to co-exist, just as free will and determinism co-exist. You wonder "what am I doing here?", but the answer is that you aren't here. There is no you. "You" is a story. You're really just the universe doing itself, endlessly. There is no "you" for free will to exist within. That's the illusion of separation taking hold. Once you realize that you are just Divine intention in motion, you'll see that free will and determinism are yet another false duality.

There are no parts of this that are free or pre-determined. There is no "this" or "that" at all.

That's the best I can explain it using language - which is always a tricky process.
 
IamMe90 said:
At the same time, it seems that by your logic, because our cognition contains something more than that of the machines we've created, our cognition isn't mechanistic. I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. That meaning and intention aren't present in lower machines doesn't necessitate that our brains don't function in a similar manner to (but perhaps to a much more advanced degree) machines.
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actually, i was only addressing computers, which are just one kind of machine. searle's argument is that there is something about our brain machines which makes them capable of something computers cannot. i'm undecided atm, although i'm still fairly dualist in my leanings.
 
^Logic is relative to the time place and who is interpreting the information, much like perfection which also only exists in consistency and is a preference of place, where that perfection is being utilized, other wise that which was considered perfect is irrelevant and a waste of effort.

I believe we live in a script, but are universe and we were born in chaos, although that chaos is only as unorganized as a fractal that is actually perfect math, or infinite predictable divination.


Alpha 60: Everything has been said, provided words do not change their meanings, and meanings their words.

Alpha 60: Sometimes reality is too complex for oral communication. But legend embodies it in a form which enables it to spread all over the world.
 
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