Are opiate tolerance and kratom tolerance linked?

[TheKidd]

So I’ve used kratom before and had good results, but that was when I had multiple months clean from heroin. I moved to Missouri to help me get clean and have been in a methadone clinic for about 6 months, I’ve been having a shitty fucking last few weeks and spent a good part of the day driving around looking for some random person to try to ask to cop for me since I know literally nobody in this fucking town with no luck (yes I know probably for the best) so I stopped by a smoke shop and bought some kratom that I know is good quality, and took the normal dose I had taken in the past with no noticeable affects. So basically what I was wondering is if anyone has experience and knows if I’ll even feel shit from taking kratom while I’m on methadone even.
Also sorry if this is the wrong spot, it’s my first time posting on here.

 

[jhjhsdi]

if I’ll even feel shit from taking kratom while I’m on methadone

Doubt it. My mates in the past who did H while on methadone script said it made it almost pointless to do the H because the methadone was occupying all the receptors that the H should work on.
I'm no opiate expert but from reading on here i think the scientific terms would be its because methadone is a full antagonist and H is a partial antagonist? Can anyone verify that?

 

[Skorpio]

Doubt it. My mates in the past who did H while on methadone script said it made it almost pointless to do the H because the methadone was occupying all the receptors that the H should work on.
I'm no opiate expert but from reading on here i think the scientific terms would be its because methadone is a full antagonist and H is a partial antagonist? Can anyone verify that?

Methadone is a full agonist but keeps tolerance high so heroin will not do much (but you can break through by increasing dose) Kratom is a partial agonist so will do less (increasing dose would probably cause precipitated withdrawal, if you didn't get the old kratom vom). Buprenorphine is an extremely potent partial agonist, which will cause precipitated withdrawal on any full agonist (and only things like some of the stronger fent derivatives can displace it from the mu receptor).

 

[jhjhsdi]

Nice one @Skorpio - i wasnt far off then haha

 

[TheKidd]

Methadone is a full agonist but keeps tolerance high so heroin will not do much (but you can break through by increasing dose) Kratom is a partial agonist so will do less (increasing dose would probably cause precipitated withdrawal, if you didn't get the old kratom vom). Buprenorphine is an extremely potent partial agonist, which will cause precipitated withdrawal on any full agonist (and only things like some of the stronger fent derivatives can displace it from the mu receptor).

I figured that was the problem. I’m assuming something like poppy tea would be similar to the way heroin would interact with me being on methadone? If that even makes sense lol. Thank you by the way.

 

[TheKidd]

I feel dumb since I just wasted $40 on a bag of kratom lol.

 

[OpiateKiller]

Yeah methadone is incredibly strong I hardly felt gram shots of heroin on 100+ mg.

Kratom will do nothing for you on Methadone, nor will vicodin, codeine, oxycodone etc in low doses, methadone is much stronger

 

[TheKidd]

Ok thank you, I assumed it was something like that. I remember a kid I knew a long time ago that used to say he would have to wait over 24 hours after his last dose to feel any H unless he did BANGERS.

 

[Larimar]

Kratom also raises tolerance . I started using Kratom when I couldn’t get my oxy I used to be able to feel 10 mg OxyContin now I need 20 -40 mg to feel anything . This was after about 6 months of just Kratom prob 20 grams a day .

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Well kind of the point of methadone is to make it less tempting for you to take H.
If they give you a full 'blocking' dose you'll feel literally nothing.

... I'm a little surprised at a cross - tolerance between opiates and kratom, since kratom while having some opiate - like effects is not itself an opiate.
There again if the alkaloids in kratom are receptor agonists it would make sense.

 

[TheKidd]

Well kind of the point of methadone is to make it less tempting for you to take H.
If they give you a full 'blocking' dose you'll feel literally nothing.

... Anyway I don't quite see how there can be cross - tolerance between opiates and kratom, since kratom while having some opiate - like (as well as some stimulant - like) effects is not itself an opiate.

I’m down to 60mg a day which is A LOT lower of a dose then most people I know that’re on a methadone program. I’ve known people that have been on 160mgs+ a day.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I feel dumb since I just wasted $40 on a bag of kratom lol.

I feel dumb since I just wasted $40 on a bag of kratom lol.

Don't feel dumb ( you aren't ) and you didn't waste the $40. The partial opioid agonist in kratom is just ONE of the alkaloids. The mitragynine. There are 39 other little goodies in there that might go very well with full agonists. It's all in the dose, my man. Try 3 grams next time you take your 'done and see if it might even put a little lift in your step. It's not enough kratom to mess with your 'done dose and you might be surprised. Have a good rest of your day.

Like people have said you won't get any of the opioid effects ( euphoria and sedation ) but since kratom has about 40 alkaloids the other 39 aren't chicken feed. Add 2 puffs of weed and you're all set.

 

[TheKidd]

Don't feel dumb ( you aren't ) and you didn't waste the $40. The partial opioid agonist in kratom is just ONE of the alkaloids. The mitragynine. There are 39 other little goodies in there that might go very well with full agonists. It's all in the dose, my man. Try 3 grams next time you take your 'done and see if it might even put a little lift in your step. It's not enough kratom to mess with your 'done dose and you might be surprised. Have a good rest of your day.

I’ve tried taking low doses, with no effect I’ve only ever noticed the opiate like effects that I got from taking like 15g+ I’ve heard there can be a stimulant like effect when taken in low doses, but I’ve never felt anything stimulant like before.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I’ve tried taking low doses, with no effect I’ve only ever noticed the opiate like effects that I got from taking like 15g+ I’ve heard there can be a stimulant like effect when taken in low doses, but I’ve never felt anything stimulant like before.

I see. Well........guess you wasted the $40 after all. Sorry to hear it does nothing for you on the stimulant aspect of it. Throw it in the cupboard for a rainy day.

 

[TheKidd]

Yeah that’s the plan, and I’ll be swapping to suboxone soon, and then tapering down slowly to get off the maintenance medications altogether, and I’ll be able to make some use of it once I’ve been off the suboxone for a little while I’m sure. Hopefully it’ll stay good until then.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Yeah that’s the plan, and I’ll be swapping to suboxone soon, and then tapering down slowly to get off the maintenance medications altogether, and I’ll be able to make some use of it once I’ve been off the suboxone for a little while I’m sure. Hopefully it’ll stay good until then.

It will be fine. A cool, dark spot and it lasts a long time. Good luck on the methadone / sub transition. Sounds like you have a plan going and I hope you stick with it. I really do. It's not so bad on the other side. The journey is tough but well worth it. Godspeed.

 

[negrogesic]

You can technically feel kratom on methadone, but you definitely won't feel any of its opioid effects. You can feel its other effect, which aren't good. You're left with a dirty yohimbine like stimulantion and dysphoria, does not feel good.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

You can technically feel kratom on methadone, but you definitely won't feel any of its opioid effects. You can feel its other effect, which aren't good. You're left with a dirty yohimbine like stimulantion and dysphoria, does not feel good.

Thanks for this. Didn't know it felt yucky. Glad The Kidd didn't take my advice.

How about with suboxone / kratom? Will he have any luck with it when he switches?

 

[TheKidd]

How about with suboxone / kratom? Will he have any luck with it when he switches?

I’m nervous about going into precipitated WDs if I took kratom while on suboxone. Although I’m sure there’s a good chance that wouldn’t happen since it’s not your normal opiate.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I’m nervous about going into precipitated WDs if I took kratom while on suboxone. Although I’m sure there’s a good chance that wouldn’t happen since it’s not your normal opiate.

Yeah. Just save the kratom for when you are off the maintainence drugs. It will be useful when you are on zero opioids , be it partial or full agonists.

Once you are clean kratom and just a bit of weed can be your best friend.