And yes I’ve been thinking and planning about getting off of methadone for a while, I was unaware of the WDs of methadone being so long when I started so my plan is to switch to suboxone for about 2-2.5 months, and then start a slow taper. I figure by then I shouldn’t have to worry about the lengthy methadone WDs, and I’d also probably be able to use kratom to mitigate what hopefully will just be little WDs I’d experience from coming off of a low dose of suboxone.
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Are opiate tolerance and kratom tolerance linked?
- Thread starter TheKidd
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Nurse Ratched
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Good on you buddy. Work your plan and keep your eye on the prize.
TheUltimateFixx
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... yeah that would've been me at one point. XD
And all it did was drive me to take insane suicidal top-ups of H in a single - minded effort to 'break the barrier' and finally achieve the high I so desperately desired.
I overdosed 18 times (requiring medical attention on each occasion) during that entirely self - defeating exercise.
Add to that fucking methadone is WORSE to come off, than is heroin. I legit don't see the POINT.
Yeah I’m upset with myself for starting on it without looking into it to see what it was like. When I chose to get on it I was sick, and I’d seen people on it in that were all fucked up and nodding out on it, but I’ve taken 210mgs when I was used to only take 70mg and didn’t feel even the slightest bit of any euphoria, not even that warm tingly stomach feeling.
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Yes, tolerance to kratom and opiates is closely linked, and that's because kratom is an opiate. So they are cross-tolerant.
Myself and many others have found that kratom jacks up your tolerance to other opioids more than you'd think it would considering it is a rather weak partial agonist.
You can't experience PWD from taking another opiate while on suboxone, only the other way around. This is because suboxone has a higher affinity than pretty much anything else so it will kick all of the other opioids out of your receptors, but since it is only a partial agonist, it doesn't totally satisfy your need, so you experience a sudden onset of withdrawal. What will happen if you take kratom while on suboxone is that you just won't feel the kratom at all.
Anecdotally, taking suboxone while addicted to kratom does not seem to produce PWD. I believe this is because kratom is a partial agonist, so even though the buprenorphine kicks it out of your receptors, it fully satisfies your addiction so there is no withdrawal from it getting kicked out.
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I agree, I’ve never experienced any pwd from taking buprenorphine after consuming kratom. For most opioids I wouldn’t consume any bupe until I was well on the other side of whatever it was I’d taken beforehand, but bupe on top of kratom...no worries about pwd imo
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I dug some stuff out that I had completely forgotten about, it had been sitting in a cabinet in my house for years and it was still good!
Someone told me once that kratom loses potency fairly quickly but that hasn’t been my experience so I guess that’s why i was surprised. Generally-speaking, drugs retain their potency for impressive lengths of time as long as they’re not exposed to the elements IMELast edited:
Are you able to feel any euphoric effects from the Kratome while on subs?
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Hmm, probably not...bupe is a weirdly potent, long-acting one ime, it’s more like a typical narcotic opioid* compared to kratom, and any effect from kratom would be far in the background if I’d taken subs beforehand
* Although I will say that bupe is definitely “energizing” sometimes
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Not sure if anyone answered this already I haven't read the whole thread, but methadone and heroin are both full agonists, while kratom is a partial agonist. That likely has something to do with why you wouldn't feel kratom very much on methadone, it's just not nearly as strong.Doubt it. My mates in the past who did H while on methadone script said it made it almost pointless to do the H because the methadone was occupying all the receptors that the H should work on.
I'm no opiate expert but from reading on here i think the scientific terms would be its because methadone is a full antagonist and H is a partial antagonist? Can anyone verify that?
And they are definitely cross tolerant. I usually don't use kratom if I'm on another opioid, as it's less likely to work.
plumbus-nine
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It's not kratom's partial agonism but secondary mechanisms which make it dysphoric - it's like a hidden psychopill. Kratom contains more than 30 active alkaloids out of which only 7-HO and mitragynine are what one wants, there's even a dissociative built in but only in trace amounts unfortunately and I lack the knowledge to extract alkaloids atm. Some of the more active secondary alkaloids are dopamine D2 and serotonin 5ht2a etc antagonists, much like antipsychotics - it's on PubMed, and that's what makes kratom dysphoric. Extracts can be better, I had good results with a 20x total alkaloid extract of the local vendor, this of course means there's still unwanted alkaloids in there but it was better than plain kratom tea, much better.
I'd say that kratom and opiate/opioid tolerance are linked for sure but not completely, one can taper off an opioid with kratom - switching the drug as much as possible sometimes interferes with tolerance development.
Hey I just tried Red Bali Kratom for the first time yesterday. Ive been on 120mg methadone daily dose for almost 3 years now, Idk if it's just me but 3g of that red Bali had me feeling pretty damn good. I was a huge skeptic on the whole kratom subject, tried it out of boredom really. Today I'm messing with 5g and I feel a nice opiate like high with mild stimulation.
Just throwing my 2 cents in
Oh also something I noticed that was rather odd. When I took my normal 120mg dose like I do every morning I got more effect from it? Usually I'll feel a nice little glow for an hour or 2 after but today it was much more prominent.
Damn that’s crazy, I’ve also never felt any type of high what so ever from my methadone dose even when I’ve taken 3 of my doses at once.
I have never felt much of anything from taking additional doses my man. Except for regret when the month comes to an end and I'm skrimping my doses to get by till next pick up.
But ya as for the Kratom I used Premium Quality Red Bali and it did give some nice effects. Total today Ive taken 7g and the opiate high lasted about 3 hours at its peak now I feel a mild stim that hasnt gone away yet.
BTW you ever tried drinking 100% grape fruit juice before/after your dose? That also works very well and no its not a placeebo effect
No I haven’t but I’ll give it a try tomorrow lol. And the only reason I was able to triple my doses is because I had Covid and the first three days I slept pretty much nonstop and didn’t even take any of my doses so I figured fuck it. I’m gunna be switching to suboxone soon but it’s got me nervous the way they want to do it I feel like it’s gonna send me into precipitated WDsIt’s crazy to me though because I know my old friends mom was on a methadone program back when I was in high school and she’d been on it for YEARS and she’d get all fucked up and nodding off of it. Granted she was shooting it but I’ve heard shooting methadone doesn’t do shit really but destroy your veins from that thick ass syrup.
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My experience taught that opiate tolerance effected kratom. But that the reverse was not true.