Are mushrooms the forbidden fruit??

[boiledfruit]

^Judaism has the same creation story too.

 

[moke]

If you think mushrooms are just a fungi you obvously havnt gotten the most out of shrooms because there is defntely somethng more to them. Think wth an open mind, and understand theres alot of truth in all relgions. I believe relgion includng chrstianty was wrtten under psychedelic influence, if you look at the story of genesis it really does explain how life works, we pass the fruit of temptation to others and something new is learned. it has been proven pyschedlcs are corrseponded with human evolution. relgion was wrtten as an anology of what was learned from psychedelc use if you always look at any relgon lterally you wll never understand the truth behind it f you disagree recommend opening your mind more when u trip next and digg deeper and you mght also see the coonection behnd it all. its a philosophy, not history.

 

[boiledfruit]

I love hearing Terrence McKenna describe "alien worlds and satellites/spaceships" in his "how to take psychedelics video". Damn I wanna get down with that!!

 

[most_illogical]

You mean from the Bible? Yes. It is. However, I don't understand why God wouldn't want his people eating it. Maybe we weren't supposed to know what the fruit will reveal to us?

Mushrooms and Cannabis are the 2 plants that will save the world one day. Cannabis will save it first though. Mushrooms will just be apart of the global spiritual awakening.

And you know how God appeared before Moses at the burning bush? Well that burning bush was a spliff that Moses rolled. It was all just lost in translation over thousands of years.

 

[Jesusgreen]

if you look at the story of genesis it really does explain how life works, we pass the fruit of temptation to others and something new is learned.

That's really not the story of Genesis

it has been proven pyschedlcs are corrseponded with human evolution

No it hasn't. The closest to proof we have is some theories by Terence McKenna and the likes. I personally believe they played a part, but saying it's fact or has been proven simply isn't true.

Personally I think you're really underestimating fungi if you think people are somehow slating Psilocybin Mushrooms for "just being mushrooms" - mushrooms have some really cool properties, some of the world's most interesting food, medicine etc come from mushrooms - they are technically the biggest life-forms on earth, and that's just getting started, I could list cool things about them for days :D

 

[moke]

idk im just philosophizing and temtpation has been a reoccurng theme in my mushroom trips just hate when people bash all relgions cuz there is truth behind them all...... guess what im tryng to get at is the story of genesis specifcally specifically the story of the garden of eden may had been written through psychedlc use...its seems like a reasonable assumption to may think the apple was to illustrate psychedlics....afterall life is a battle of temptaion and it seems logcal that it may have started with it.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

^Or maybe you're just projecting your own personal experiences onto millenia old religious myth...

I don't see any connection at all. Genesis seems a not-extraordinary world creation myth that was adopted by ye olde Hebrews, but because the Abrahamic religions (well more Christianity and Islam than anything else) have made it big in the world doesn't make this particular narrative any more/less compelling than any other.

Another thing to remember is that psychedelics aren't the source of the rather amazing emotional/intellectual experiences they inspire, the true source is the human mind, and many if not all of these thoughts can (and have repeatedly) been accessed by perfectly sober individuals. I'm not meaning to downplay the influence of psychoactives in the development of the human race, I just think druggie types are prone to overemphasize them since they are so meaningful and prescient to us.

 

[boiledfruit]

A friend of mine said it best. But I'll paraphrase.. ahem

"DMT is the lazy mans answer to mediation"

Yah. It isn't proven yet that psychedelics have made us who were are. But I'd like to think so. Simply because psychedelics have help make me who I am =).

However it is proven that mushrooms have been consumed many, many times by our ancestors.

 

[Jesusgreen]

^^

As Terence McKenna (funnily enough the guy who was the one who came up with the theory that we evolved through mushroom use) said: Psychedelics are like taking the elevator, meditation is like taking the stairs.

I treat them a little differently though, and I see both meditation and psychedelics as equally useful when used correctly - to me psychedelics are a type of meditation though, rather than some magical answer and cure to everything.

 

[Sappy_6794]

^Judaism has the same creation story too.

I dont believe in that either for a reason

 

[swilow]

If you read Food of The Gods by McKenna he does suggest that the mushroom could have in fact been the forbidden fruit. I'm fairly sure it's in there, it's been a while since I have read it.

Look, I love reading Terence McKennas writings. He was a very interesting and charismatic guy, but most of his theses were pure speculations. Thats not to say there isn't some truth behind them, and its not to say that his theories weren't compelling and downright thought provoking, but nothing that he wrote in regards to mushrooms and evolution has been proven in the slightet.

Our ancient ancestors used these mushrooms for spiritual purposes, and many still do today. We live in a world today riddled with notions that "religion is bullshit" and those sort of unhealthy ideas. Science has taken over our minds and many people find it impossible for there to be any sort of connection between each other, nature, and God.

Its not true to say that 'many' of our ancestors use psychedelic mushrooms these days...I guess there may well be a small group in Mexico still doing this, but its by no means wide spread. Even if it were, that doesn't somehow legitimise magic mushrooms.

Our mind and God are one.

In a way, I agree.

Well, it is true that hemp is a WONDERPLANT and will eventually be utitilzed to its full potential. It is also true that mushrooms are used as spiritual tools in the past and today. Many communities use them as sacraments to keep their bonds to community, nature, and the spirit world together.

I don't think anyone doubts that cannabis has some really useful properties, but if we are going to rely on it to save the world, I fear we are doomed.

Evolution teaches us that if something mutates and it is inferior, it will not survive. What was the point of mushrooms evolving with a unique compound (especially one that has DMT in it, just like in human brains) if it served no purpose in nature?

Firstly, mushrooms don't really contain DMT. Psilocin and psilocybin are different chemicals to DMT.

Evolution doesn't work in the way you've suggested. Something survives if it stays alive long enough to re-produce. Evolution isn't an active, creative force in any sense. Its not a divine selection tool. There are many examples of life forms that could be seen as fragile and 'inferior' and yet, they have surivived for millions of years. In the case of hallucinogenic mushrooms, its thought that the hallucinogenic chemicals would serve to disorient and dissuade those animals who accidentally eat them. In that sense, these chemicals are a type of defense system. I know, it makes this whole thing seem quite dull and un-magical, but its not at all. Instead of humans acting as we are 'ordained', we can go against this type of evolutionary tyranny and do these things that nature has inadvertently determined that we shouldn't ever do- such as eat a mushrooms with a type of disorienting component and actually enjoy and learn from that disorietation. For better or worse, humans now stand outside of nature and natural selection.

It's hard to believe that mushrooms are a gift from God when the majority of the Earth can't believe in anything spiritual (in terms of extra dimensional beings/spirits n' whatnot).

Believing in the christian god and spirituality aren't totally bound together. I don't believe in the Abrahamic god one bit. I think the bible is a very deceptive collection of pseudo histories. But I am a very spiritual person. I am interested in shamanism, buddhism, taoism, but mainly in various occult techniques. With my own senses, I have witnessed what can only be called "supernatural" occurrences. In my heart and mind, I know that this human world is only one small element of a greater theatre. But I just don't accept the notion of one jealous god. I don't believe in divine intent.

 

[pk.]

No!

 

[Jesusgreen]

...

Believing in the christian god and spirituality aren't totally bound together. I don't believe in the Abrahamic god one bit. I think the bible is a very deceptive collection of pseudo histories. But I am a very spiritual person. I am interested in shamanism, buddhism, taoism, but mainly in various occult techniques. With my own senses, I have witnessed what can only be called "supernatural" occurrences. In my heart and mind, I know that this human world is only one small element of a greater theatre. But I just don't accept the notion of one jealous god. I don't believe in divine intent.

^ Couldn't have put it better than myself.

Also regarding mushrooms having no purpose in nature, what willow said is a plausibility, as is McKenna's argument that they contained these chemicals because people/animals would enjoy them and that would lead to them spreading spores around. If it were a more intelligent construction for the sole purpose of furthering human life-forms, I suspect it'd be all the trees we're cutting down that would start producing life-changing psychedelics

 

[Thou]

Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally on our planet, serves a thousand different functions, all of them positive. To make marijuana against the law is like saying that God made a mistake. Like on the seventh day God looked down, "There it is. My Creation, perfect and holy in all ways. Now I can rest. [Gives shocked expression] Oh my Me! I left fuckin' pot everywhere. I should never have smoked that joint on the third day. Hehe, that was the day I created the possum. Still gives me a chuckle. But if I leave pot everywhere, that's gonna give people the impression they're supposed to … use it. Now I have to create Republicans." " … and God wept", I believe is the next part of that story.

-Bill Hicks

 

[most_illogical]

Great thread. Couple of things -

1/ I'm currently reading Huston Smith's book "Forgotten Truth - The Common Vision of the World's Religions". Pretty hard hitting stuff from one of the big players at Harvard at the time. Recommended.

2/ This is an interesting read about Manna/Psilocybes - http://deoxy.org/manna.htm

Miracles..

 

[Ismene]

However it is proven that mushrooms have been consumed many, many times by our ancestors.

It hasn't actually, it appears that a few tribes in Mexico used mushrooms. And even then it appears that this use was limited to one member of the tribe and that they were pretty much exclusively for some kind of superstitious "ask the mushroom what medicine my child needs" use.

I think mushroom use only became widespread over the last 50 years.

 

[Ismene]

In the case of hallucinogenic mushrooms, its thought that the hallucinogenic chemicals would serve to disorient and dissuade those animals who accidentally eat them.

I don't think that theory ever had any credibility willow. Certainly groups of sheep in scotland are known to actively eat the mushrooms because they enjoy the effects. And if it was down to "warding off animals" then young mescaline cacti would have the highest concentration of mescaline instead of the lowest. The oldest, most gnarly and unlikely to be eaten cacti have the highest mescaline concentration.

 

[Ismene]

-Bill Hicks

Although Bill didn't enjoy pot, mushrooms were always his thing.

 

[swilow]

I don't think that theory ever had any credibility willow. Certainly groups of sheep in scotland are known to actively eat the mushrooms because they enjoy the effects.

Its impossible to know the motives of sheep. Some sheep, somewhere might eat mushies, but that doesn't mean that all sheep, and all animals, will do so. Its not farfetched to imagine that hallucinogenic chemicals in plants do serve a protective role.

And if it was down to "warding off animals" then young mescaline cacti would have the highest concentration of mescaline instead of the lowest. The oldest, most gnarly and unlikely to be eaten cacti have the highest mescaline concentration.

Another problem with that would be that to eat a psychedelic dose of San Pedro (for example) an animal would have to ingest a foot of spikey cactus. I doubt mescaline has been selected for because of psychoactivity; however, mescaline is very bitter so it may simply use the taste of it as a deterrant. No animal in their right mind (besides humans) would keep munching on such a vile tasting plant, regardless of their hunger. Also, cactii has spikes.

There is a huge chance that these chemicals are simply by products of chemical reaction, perhaps from metabolism of various nutrients.

 

[Ismene]

Its impossible to know the motives of sheep.

Presumably evolution would ensure your extinction if your "alkaloid defences" are so shite that any sheep at all were happy munching on you tho.

No animal in their right mind (besides humans) would keep munching on such a vile tasting plant

I dunno willow, I've never been that fond of the taste of grass but there's plenty of animals who can eat it all day.

There is a huge chance that these chemicals are simply by products of chemical reaction, perhaps from metabolism of various nutrients.

I think this probably a more likely explanation.