• LAVA Moderator: Shinji Ikari

Are men smarter than women? (merged)

StarTripper said:
Women are more intuitively smarter than men.. we're more feelers than thinkers.. I do think men tend to be more intellegent on the analytical side of things.. as women are more prone to excell artistically.. expression of our talents is the only way to really tell..

I was wondering but why is it that people say women are more prone to excell artistically? For every one "great" female artise you hear of 100 great male artists. Every form of art is male dominated be it Poetry, Novelists, Painters, Sculpters, and Philosophers...

Why is it that these things are so male dominated...
 
"Why is it that these things are so male dominated..."

It's a male dominated world my friend.
 
mariposa420 said:
I'd love to see the citations for your research. My years of experience as an extremely solution-oriented legal administrative professional has taught me *not* to beat around the bush and to answer questions according to how they are presented, with reference to the subject matter at hand.

I've seen precious little science in this thread (with the exception of fizzy and xtcxtc, awesome posts you 2) and tons of speculation. I'd like to see more science, please.

Was that concise enough for everyone? ;)

And SHATT- The day I count on my pussy to get me somewhere in this world would be a sad day indeed. Many of us females have no problem standing on our own two feet in the business world with our legs firmly shut.

I have to do some digging for the research...It's been awhile since I worked on this topic. (will get back to you though...started school, so it may be a few weeks). But, I do know that this research has been done and it's instilled in my memory, because I did a debate on it. (I had to memorize it.)

To clear up what SHATT was saying...I think he was saying that there's a way for women to use their sensuality (not sexuality) to help boost themselves in their career.

I don't think he meant by women using sex to climb the ladder...but more like their femininity (sp?).

I can't lie....I use it all the time. ESPECIALLY, in interviews. It's hard to explain, but I will try. I just read a journal article (if you NEED the article PM me, and I'll try to dig it up) saying that just the PRESENCE of a beautiful woman causes a man to make irrational decisions. (Researches concluded since men are visually stimulated, the presence of that beautiful woman arouses them, slightly, and therefore they cannot think as clearly.)

Therefore, why not play up your beauty when given the opportunity. (not saying wear shorter skirts to work, or push up bras...that's not what I mean, nor does SHATT--I think? Although, he'd probably enjoy it?? no?) More like mannerisms and smiles. ;)

Get past the, "I can't be a woman in the workplace, must think and act like a man"...and think like a woman, and use it to your advantage.

I'm trying to explain something that's hard to put into words...I hope you understand...and SHATT-feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted you.

(althought I feel like I didn't need to say that) :\


"FEAR THE PUSS" Shrek 2
 
mushman1 said:
I was wondering but why is it that people say women are more prone to excell artistically? For every one "great" female artise you hear of 100 great male artists. Every form of art is male dominated be it Poetry, Novelists, Painters, Sculpters, and Philosophers...

Why is it that these things are so male dominated...

You are kinda right and kinda wrong. It used to be this concrete until the Whole Brain Theory came out. Basically, this theory says that not only can you determine which side of the brain (left or right) you use, but also whether you are specific to the front or back of the brain. (Don't remember the theorist off the top of my head) {{wishes she had internet at home, so she could pull old research when needed}} I do remember that the original theorist only had his Master's degree in pyschology and therefore the theory was not taken seriously until, a man with his PhD studied it and subscribed to it. I keep getting the name Ned in my head, but that doesn't mean anything.

GENERALLY speaking... a lot of women are "C" brain-feelers..and a lot of men are "A" brain-thinkers. but you also have B brain-doers, and D brains-intuitives. AND, you also have holistic thinkers who are not specific in any of the 4 brain types, but consistent levels of all.

Although many woman are C's and many men are A's...it's not gender specific.
 
The point is, does it really matter? I honestly could care less who's smarter, simply because the outcome scares me either way. I don't want my brain being taxxed because women suddenly find it easier to use mine than theirs, and on that same token I don't need a woman gloating over me because she has more brain power. Because women are like that.
 
wanderer21 said:
^Obviously, someone wants to know something about it, otherwise it wouldn't be posted!

lol:D
yes, but sometimes there is no ez answer...so lets continue the chitchatter;)
 
I wasn't trying to say noone wants to know, I was merely pointing out the fact that in the grand scheme of things, is it important?
 
Syn22 said:
I wasn't trying to say noone wants to know, I was merely pointing out the fact that in the grand scheme of things, is it important?

so do you wanna know? it is very important, especially for those below average, well, that's how i think about it.

from my experience woman are on average smarter then men, still 82% of all my prof's at university were mail ;)
 
I think there is a high possibility that men are more intellectual because of higher levels of testosterone, but their intellect declines rapidly when blood rushes from brain to penis in .45 seconds, which leads me to believe that woman are smarter due to being able to maintain intellect when sexually aroused. Because we all know that 99.9% of the male population are all horn dogs. ;)
 
from: http://www.sq.4mg.com/SexIQ.htm
Sex differences in intelligence

Paul Cooijmans 2003
Introduction

In this discussion of sex differences I rely mostly on chapter 13, "Sex differences in g", from Arthur Jensen's book "The g factor", and a little bit on chapter 4, "Conditions for excellence", from Hans Eysenck's book "Genius - The natural history of creativity". Also on Richard Lynn's home page. And of course on my own experience with high-range tests.

Note that "sex" here refers to one's state on the 23rd chromosome; females have two X chromosomes, males have XY. Some use the term "gender" in this respect, but that is incorrect as it refers more to one's identity on a feminine/masculine dimension, irrespective of chromosomal state.

Mean IQ

When it comes to the question whether or not there is difference in mean IQ between males and females, Jensen basically says no, after having considered a large amount of evidence. Eysenck is a little bit more skeptical and points out that the usual assumption of equal IQ of the sexes may be flawed. Based on data also mentioned by Jensen (R. Lynn, 1994, Sex differences in intelligence and brain size: a paradox resolved), Eysenck suggests 4 IQ points as a conservative estimate of the difference (favoring males). Lynn, on his home page, simple states in adults the difference is about 4 points.

Both Jensen and Eysenck indicate that the question is hard to answer, as IQ tests like Stanford-Binet and WAIS have traditionally been constructed to show no sex difference in total score, by leaving out or counterbalancing items that show sex differences. Such tests therefore are not capable of measuring a possible difference between the sexes.

I myself cannot observe a mean difference directly as I only deal with high-range tests. I will return to this point further on with regard to the variance difference.

Variance

The male variance in IQ is greater than that for females; Jensen says this difference is greatest in math and spatial ability. In math the male variance is 1.1 to 1.3 times greater (he does not give the difference for total IQ or g).

In the high range, my own observation to date is that at or above the 98th percentile there are about twice more males than females, while at or above the 99.9th percentile there are about 15 times more males. Trying to make this fit in terms of standard deviation (variance is the square of the standard deviation by the way), I find that when the male and female mean are both IQ 100, the male standard deviation (SD) must be about 33% greater than the female SD. However, when a mean difference of 5 points in favor of males would exist, the male SD would only need to be about 11% greater. I don't know which is true (or if the truth lies in between) and will not be able to verify it myself as I only deal with high-range tests. I must say though that an SD difference of 33% seems unlikely.
Childhood and growing up

Girls mature earlier verbally, and after puberty boys catch up. The male advantage on spatial and numerical ability (discussed further on) is not yet present in young children, and develops slowly during childhood and puberty. Important to realize here is that the sex differences in mental abilities are caused by hormonal differences (estrogen/testosterone balance), which work partly prenatally and partly after puberty.

A remark I have on this: if there is a mean difference in IQ between the sexes, this will be fully expressed only in adults, and not yet in children. In any case, it seems that when testing children, e.g. for giftedness, one should be aware of these developments and differences, the risk being that one would select too many girls and too few boys as "gifted".
Ability types at which females are better than males

Females are slightly better than males at straight-forward arithmetic (not at more complex math). On short-term memory the difference is greater; they score .3 SD higher than males.

A verbal ability type that consistently favors females is "fluency"; such tests require the testee to name as many as possible words starting with a given letter within a limited time. Females are also better at reading, writing, grammar and spelling. The popular notion that females are better than males at verbal ability on the whole is not true; they're only better at these specific tasks, while there is no or as good as no sex difference on verbal ability on the whole.

Other tasks at which females outscore males are those involving perceptual speed (e.g. matching figures) and clerical checking, both speed and accuracy (e.g. underlining certain letters in a text, or digit/symbol coding). Their advantage on such tasks varies from .2 to .4 SD. Females are also better at motor coordination and finger and manual dexterity, but those are not mental abilities in a strict sense.
Ability types at which males are better

The largest difference is that in spatial ability; the mental manipulation of figures in two or more dimensions. The difference varies from .3 to .5 SD.

Then there is a difference in numerical ability (except for simple arithmetic) of .1 to .25 SD. And as already said, in both spatial and numerical ability there is also a large difference in variance, favoring males.

As for verbal ability, males are better at tests of general knowledge. In verbal reasoning there is as good as no difference.
Conclusion

Most important to realize is that because of the difference in variance (regardless if there is a mean difference), in any above-average sample it is normal to find males scoring higher than females. It would in fact be suspect to find this not to be the case; that would indicate possible problems with test ceiling (too low) or test construction (items selected to be sex-balanced instead of for psychometric soundness), or fraud with statistics.

A result of the greater male variance is that the correlations between specific high-range tests will be based largely on male testees, and that therefore the possible general factor in such tests is not the same as that in regular tests; in other words, high-range tests do not per se measure "g". If anything, they measure "male g".

Also important to know is that the state of affairs in children, regarding mental abilities, is not representative of how it will be when they have become adults.

Dilemmas that come forth from these facts: should test scores in the high range be expressed within-sex rather than sex-combined, given the difference? And: should "giftedness" be defined within children, or within adults? Think about it.
 
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http://www.sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm

National Average IQ's based on Britain = 100. (USA lower at 98)

Hong Kong 107 Korea, South 106 Japan 105 Taiwan 104 Singapore 104 Austria 102 Germany 102 Italy 102 Netherlands 102 Sweden 101 Switzerland 101 Belgium 100 China 100 New Zealand 100 U. Kingdom 100 Hungary 99 Poland 99 Australia 98 Denmark 98 France 98 Norway 98 United States 98 Canada 97 Czech Republic 97 Finland 97 Spain 97 Argentina 96 Russia 96 Slovakia 96 Uruguay 96 Portugal 95 Slovenia 95 Israel 94 Romania 94 Bulgaria 93 Ireland 93 Greece 92 Malaysia 92 Thailand 91 Croatia 90 Peru 90 Turkey 90 Columbia 89 Indonesia 89 Suriname 89 Brazil 87 Iraq 87 Mexico 87 Samoa (Western) 87 Tonga 87 Lebanon 86 Philippines 86 Cuba 85 Morocco 85 Fiji 84 Iran 84 Marshall Islands 84 Puerto Rico 84 Egypt 83 India 81 Ecuador 80 Guatemala 79 Barbados 78 Nepal 78 Qatar 78 Zambia 77 Congo (Brazz) 73 Uganda 73 Jamaica 72 Kenya 72 South Africa 72 Sudan 72 Tanzania 72 Ghana 71 Nigeria 67 Guinea 66 Zimbabwe 66 Congo (Zaire) 65 Sierra Leone 64 Ethiopia 63 Equatorial Guinea 59
 
http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/jpr_gould_paid.html

He himself actively campaigned against racial oppression in the U.S.A. and in England (p. 38). I for one admire Gould for having the candor to divulge this background. No doubt personal experience affects all scholarship (including mine). However, even the most deeply held values cannot justify withholding evidence, engaging in character assassination, and repeating unfounded charges despite published refutations.

No doubt we are all prisoners of our background as well as slaves to our genes, but facts remain facts. Brain size and IQ are correlated. Men do average larger and heavier brains than do women. Asians and Europeans do average larger and heavier brains than do Africans. Higher SES groups do average larger and heavier brains than do lower SES groups.

Perhaps more than any scientist in recent memory, Gould has wielded his influence not only as a professor of science at Harvard but also through the pages of the New York Review of Books and through broadcasts on educational television, to seriously and intentionally misrepresent the science and politics of IQ. By his own standard, Gould has consigned himself to the innermost circle of hell. But science, fortunately, is not religion or politics. Gould need only own up to the facts and end his career of relentless special pleading. The second edition of The Mismeasure of Man does not measure up to Gould's own standard of "honest assessment and best judgment of evidence for empirical truth".
 
Wanted: powerful male looking for maid to marry
Maureen Dowd Friday, January 14, 2005
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/01/13/opinion/eddowd.html

A second study by researchers at four British universities that was reported last week suggested that smart men with demanding jobs would rather have old-fashioned wives, like their mums, than equals.
.
The study found that a high IQ hampers a woman's chance to get married, while it is a plus for men. The prospect for marriage increased by 35 percent for guys for each 16-point increase in IQ; for women, there is a 40 percent drop for each 16-point rise
 
I would see this (if valid) just meaning that guys really have to get over themselves. If I had a choice between smart and single and dumb and married I wouldn't hesitate to go with the former.

I'm also a bit bothered by the idea that old-fashioned wives were all unintelligent, because I really doubt that....they just knew how to work behind the scenes to get what they wanted done. It was just a different way of doing things.
 
"Difference" feminism:

Get past the, "I can't be a woman in the workplace, must think and act like a man"...and think like a woman, and use it to your advantage.

I think this way of thinking is really resented by a lot of women, especially those who go to school for science or engineering. What it comes down to: the average traits of groups of people cannot be applied to individuals, EVER. It's just wrong.
 
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