wanderer21
Bluelighter
^it may be wrong...but gender will never disappear. Just as race will never disappear.
btw: I am studying science. Behavioral science
btw: I am studying science. Behavioral science
-
Life Advice & Visual Arts
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Are men smarter than women? (merged)
- Thread starter fairnymph
- Start date
jeenius
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2004
- Messages
- 454
^race should disappear, it's TRULY superficial (edit: by superficial, I mean not innate i.e. cultural). gender shouldn't...
I study neuroscience. Males have a larger amygdala than females, a part of the brain associated with aggression and also (I think) lust. But I think we all realize that some females are a lot more aggressive than some males -- the difference is so small that behavior between males and females overwhelmingly overlaps. This is true for just about all behavioral and intelligence differences.
p.s. i'm not trying to pick on you, this topic just interests me.
p.p.s. I was referring to girls who are in classes where they are outnumbered by males by anywhere from 5:1 to 10:1. Usually physics, math, engineering, or computer science. It can become a serious daily issue.
I study neuroscience. Males have a larger amygdala than females, a part of the brain associated with aggression and also (I think) lust. But I think we all realize that some females are a lot more aggressive than some males -- the difference is so small that behavior between males and females overwhelmingly overlaps. This is true for just about all behavioral and intelligence differences.
p.s. i'm not trying to pick on you, this topic just interests me.
p.p.s. I was referring to girls who are in classes where they are outnumbered by males by anywhere from 5:1 to 10:1. Usually physics, math, engineering, or computer science. It can become a serious daily issue.
Last edited:
Ron Burgundy
Ex-Bluelighter
Ok, i can settle this entire discussion right here and now. Read carefully below:
It is anchorMAN, not anchorLADY!
Any questions?
It is anchorMAN, not anchorLADY!
Any questions?
everythinginside
Ex-Bluelighter
I think we need to redefine intelligence when it comes to comparing men and women.
How can you really compare them?
But then, I tend to agree with a lot of people here.
How can you really compare them?
But then, I tend to agree with a lot of people here.
KingPimpDaddy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2003
- Messages
- 14
Harvard president criticized for remarks
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- The president of Harvard University prompted criticism for suggesting that innate differences between the sexes could help explain why fewer women succeed in science and math careers.
Lawrence H. Summers, speaking Friday at an economic conference, also questioned how great a role discrimination plays in keeping female scientists and engineers from advancing at elite universities.
The remarks prompted Massachusetts Institute of Technology biologist Nancy Hopkins - a Harvard graduate - to walk out on Summers' talk, The Boston Globe reported.
"It is so upsetting that all these brilliant young women (at Harvard) are being led by a man who views them this way," Hopkins said later.
In a statement released Monday night, Summers said his remarks were misconstrued as suggesting that women lack the ability to succeed at the highest levels of math and science.
"I did not say that, nor do I believe it," he said.
Summers said he is deeply committed "to the advancement of women in science."
Five other participants in the National Bureau of Economic Research conference, including Denice D. Denton, chancellor designate of the University of California, Santa Cruz, also said they were offended by the comments. Four other attendees contacted afterward by the Globe said they were not.
Summers said the comments were made "in the spirit of academic inquiry" and his goal was to underscore the need for further research to understand a situation that is likely due to a variety of factors.
Conference organizers said Summers was asked to be provocative, and that he was invited as a top economist, not as a Harvard official.
The two-day, invitation-only conference of the Cambridge-based National Bureau of Economic Research drew about 50 economists from around the country to discuss women and minorities in science and engineering.
Summers declined to provide a tape or transcript of his remarks, but he did describe comments to the Globe similar to what participants recalled.
"It's possible I made some reference to innate differences," he said. He said people "would prefer to believe" that the differences in performance between the sexes are due to social factors, "but these are things that need to be studied."
He also cited as an example one of his daughters, who as a child was given two trucks in an effort at gender-neutral upbringing. Yet he said she named them "daddy truck" and "baby truck," as if they were dolls.
It was during such comments that Hopkins got up and left.
"Here was this economist lecturing pompously (to) this room full of the country's most accomplished scholars on women's issues in science and engineering, and he kept saying things we had refuted in the first half of the day," said Denton, the outgoing dean of the College of Engineering at the University of Washington.
Summers already faced criticism because the number of senior job offers to women has dropped each year of his three-year presidency. He has promised to work on the problem.
Source
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- The president of Harvard University prompted criticism for suggesting that innate differences between the sexes could help explain why fewer women succeed in science and math careers.
Lawrence H. Summers, speaking Friday at an economic conference, also questioned how great a role discrimination plays in keeping female scientists and engineers from advancing at elite universities.
The remarks prompted Massachusetts Institute of Technology biologist Nancy Hopkins - a Harvard graduate - to walk out on Summers' talk, The Boston Globe reported.
"It is so upsetting that all these brilliant young women (at Harvard) are being led by a man who views them this way," Hopkins said later.
In a statement released Monday night, Summers said his remarks were misconstrued as suggesting that women lack the ability to succeed at the highest levels of math and science.
"I did not say that, nor do I believe it," he said.
Summers said he is deeply committed "to the advancement of women in science."
Five other participants in the National Bureau of Economic Research conference, including Denice D. Denton, chancellor designate of the University of California, Santa Cruz, also said they were offended by the comments. Four other attendees contacted afterward by the Globe said they were not.
Summers said the comments were made "in the spirit of academic inquiry" and his goal was to underscore the need for further research to understand a situation that is likely due to a variety of factors.
Conference organizers said Summers was asked to be provocative, and that he was invited as a top economist, not as a Harvard official.
The two-day, invitation-only conference of the Cambridge-based National Bureau of Economic Research drew about 50 economists from around the country to discuss women and minorities in science and engineering.
Summers declined to provide a tape or transcript of his remarks, but he did describe comments to the Globe similar to what participants recalled.
"It's possible I made some reference to innate differences," he said. He said people "would prefer to believe" that the differences in performance between the sexes are due to social factors, "but these are things that need to be studied."
He also cited as an example one of his daughters, who as a child was given two trucks in an effort at gender-neutral upbringing. Yet he said she named them "daddy truck" and "baby truck," as if they were dolls.
It was during such comments that Hopkins got up and left.
"Here was this economist lecturing pompously (to) this room full of the country's most accomplished scholars on women's issues in science and engineering, and he kept saying things we had refuted in the first half of the day," said Denton, the outgoing dean of the College of Engineering at the University of Washington.
Summers already faced criticism because the number of senior job offers to women has dropped each year of his three-year presidency. He has promised to work on the problem.
Source
jeenius
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2004
- Messages
- 454
^^^I think it's also not valid to assume that every type of profession needs to be 50% male/50% female.
Although I don't think it's a difference in *ability* that causes this, I think it could easily be a difference in *preference.* There may be fewer women who want to pursue that type of career, just like if you go to a high school choir class, the teacher will tell you that they can never get enough male students to join. They don't want to.
That doesn't rule out the influence of potential sexist bastards, either. 8)
Although I don't think it's a difference in *ability* that causes this, I think it could easily be a difference in *preference.* There may be fewer women who want to pursue that type of career, just like if you go to a high school choir class, the teacher will tell you that they can never get enough male students to join. They don't want to.
That doesn't rule out the influence of potential sexist bastards, either. 8)
Last edited:
xtcxtc
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 30, 1999
- Messages
- 1,978
No Break in the Storm Over Harvard President's Words
By SAM DILLON and SARA RIMER
New York Times
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050119/ZNYT02/501190405
Members of a Harvard faculty committee that has examined the recruiting of
professors who are women sent a protest letter yesterday to Lawrence H.
Summers, the university's president, saying his recent statements about innate
differences between the sexes would only make it harder to attract top
candidates.
The committee told Mr. Summers that his remarks did not "serve our institution
well."
"Indeed," the letter said, "they serve to reinforce an institutional culture
at Harvard that erects numerous barriers to improving the representation of
women on the faculty, and to impede our current efforts to recruit top women
scholars. They also send at best mixed signals to our high-achieving women
students in Harvard College and in the graduate and professional schools."
The letter was one part of an outcry that continued to follow remarks Mr.
Summers made Friday suggesting that biological differences between the sexes
may be one explanation for why fewer women succeed in mathematic and science
careers.
One university dean called the aftermath an "intellectual tsunami," and some
Harvard alumnae said they would suspend donations to the university.
Perhaps the most outraged were prominent female professors at Harvard.
"If you were a woman scientist and had two competing offers and knew that the
president of Harvard didn't think that women scientists were as good as men,
which one would you take?" said Mary C. Waters, chairman of Harvard's
sociology department, who with other faculty members has been pressing Mr.
Summers to reverse a sharp decline in the hiring of tenured female professors
during his administration.
At the center of the storm, Mr. Summers posted a statement late Monday night
on his Web page, saying that his comments at the National Bureau of Economic
Research, a nonprofit economic research organization in Cambridge had been
misconstrued and pledging to continue efforts to "attract and engage
outstanding women scientists."
"My aim at the conference was to underscore that the situation is likely the
product of a variety of factors and that further research can help us better
understand their interplay," he said. "I do not presume to have confident
answers, only the conviction that the harder we work to research and
understand the situation, the better the prospects for long term success."
Mr. Summers also received support from Hanna H. Gray, a former president of
the University of Chicago and a member of the Harvard Corporation, the
university's governing body. Dr. Gray said she believed that Mr. Summers's
remarks had been misinterpreted.
"I think that Larry Summers is an excellent president of Harvard, firmly
committed and deeply respectful of the role of women in universities and one
who is anxious to strengthen and enhance that," she said.
At Friday's conference, Mr. Summers discussed possible reasons so few women
were on the science and engineering faculties at research universities, and he
said he would be provocative.
Among his hypotheses were that faculty positions at elite universities
required more time and energy than married women with children were willing to
accept, that innate sex differences might leave women less capable of
succeeding at the most advanced mathematics and that discrimination may also
play a role, participants said. There was no transcript of his remarks.
His remarks caused one professor to walk out and another to openly challenge
them.
In their letter to Mr. Summers, the standing committee on women, reproached
him for thinking that he could speak as an individual and an economist at a
small, private conference without it reflecting on the university.
They said it "was obvious that the president of the university never speaks
entirely as an individual, especially when that institution is Harvard and
when the issue on the table is so highly charged."
On and off the campus, Mr. Summers's remarks were the subject of heated debate
yesterday.
Denice D. Denton, the dean of engineering at the University of Washington who
confronted Mr. Summers over his remarks at the conference, said that her phone
had not stopped ringing and that she had received scores of e-mail messages on
the subject. She said Mr. Summers's remarks might have put new energy into a
longstanding effort to improve the status of women in the sciences.
"I think they've provoked an intellectual tsunami," Dr. Denton said.
Howard Georgi, a physics professor and former chairman of the department, sent
an e-mail message to Mr. Summers, saying he made a mistake in judgment in
accepting the invitation to speak as a provoker. Dr. Georgi also sent a note
to his students assuring them that they were appreciated.
Maud Lavin, who graduated from Harvard in the class of 1976, was one of the
first women to take a demanding theoretical math sequence, Math 11 and Math
55, and is an associate professor at the School of the Art Institute of
Chicago. Ms Lavin said in an interview yesterday that she would not donate any
more money to Harvard as long as Mr. Summers was president, after firing off
an angry e-mail message to him.
"I am offended and furious about your remarks on women in science and
mathematics," Ms. Lavin wrote. "Arguments of innate gender difference in math
are hogwash and indirectly serve to feed the virulent prejudices still alas
very alive and now even more so due to your ill-informed remarks."
Students were also discussing the remarks. Thea Daniels, 21, a Harvard senior
majoring in sociology said she and her roommates spent Monday evening talking
about them.
"We were just upset," Ms. Daniels said. "It's disconcerting that the man who
is supposed to have your best interest in mind and is the leader of your
education community thinks less of us."
the above is total insanity. the man is being pilloried for having the gall to suggest that male and female abilities are not equal when all the science would indicate same is obviously true.
one would need to be blindfolded not to realise same.
jihad joe NO.
There are plenty of smart women and dumb men around. Conversly, there are plenty of dumb women and smart men around.
Generalizations don't work. Sorry.
of course they do --- read my posts. it all comes down to genetics and one can make generalisations based on sex, ethnic backgrounds and age.
By SAM DILLON and SARA RIMER
New York Times
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050119/ZNYT02/501190405
Members of a Harvard faculty committee that has examined the recruiting of
professors who are women sent a protest letter yesterday to Lawrence H.
Summers, the university's president, saying his recent statements about innate
differences between the sexes would only make it harder to attract top
candidates.
The committee told Mr. Summers that his remarks did not "serve our institution
well."
"Indeed," the letter said, "they serve to reinforce an institutional culture
at Harvard that erects numerous barriers to improving the representation of
women on the faculty, and to impede our current efforts to recruit top women
scholars. They also send at best mixed signals to our high-achieving women
students in Harvard College and in the graduate and professional schools."
The letter was one part of an outcry that continued to follow remarks Mr.
Summers made Friday suggesting that biological differences between the sexes
may be one explanation for why fewer women succeed in mathematic and science
careers.
One university dean called the aftermath an "intellectual tsunami," and some
Harvard alumnae said they would suspend donations to the university.
Perhaps the most outraged were prominent female professors at Harvard.
"If you were a woman scientist and had two competing offers and knew that the
president of Harvard didn't think that women scientists were as good as men,
which one would you take?" said Mary C. Waters, chairman of Harvard's
sociology department, who with other faculty members has been pressing Mr.
Summers to reverse a sharp decline in the hiring of tenured female professors
during his administration.
At the center of the storm, Mr. Summers posted a statement late Monday night
on his Web page, saying that his comments at the National Bureau of Economic
Research, a nonprofit economic research organization in Cambridge had been
misconstrued and pledging to continue efforts to "attract and engage
outstanding women scientists."
"My aim at the conference was to underscore that the situation is likely the
product of a variety of factors and that further research can help us better
understand their interplay," he said. "I do not presume to have confident
answers, only the conviction that the harder we work to research and
understand the situation, the better the prospects for long term success."
Mr. Summers also received support from Hanna H. Gray, a former president of
the University of Chicago and a member of the Harvard Corporation, the
university's governing body. Dr. Gray said she believed that Mr. Summers's
remarks had been misinterpreted.
"I think that Larry Summers is an excellent president of Harvard, firmly
committed and deeply respectful of the role of women in universities and one
who is anxious to strengthen and enhance that," she said.
At Friday's conference, Mr. Summers discussed possible reasons so few women
were on the science and engineering faculties at research universities, and he
said he would be provocative.
Among his hypotheses were that faculty positions at elite universities
required more time and energy than married women with children were willing to
accept, that innate sex differences might leave women less capable of
succeeding at the most advanced mathematics and that discrimination may also
play a role, participants said. There was no transcript of his remarks.
His remarks caused one professor to walk out and another to openly challenge
them.
In their letter to Mr. Summers, the standing committee on women, reproached
him for thinking that he could speak as an individual and an economist at a
small, private conference without it reflecting on the university.
They said it "was obvious that the president of the university never speaks
entirely as an individual, especially when that institution is Harvard and
when the issue on the table is so highly charged."
On and off the campus, Mr. Summers's remarks were the subject of heated debate
yesterday.
Denice D. Denton, the dean of engineering at the University of Washington who
confronted Mr. Summers over his remarks at the conference, said that her phone
had not stopped ringing and that she had received scores of e-mail messages on
the subject. She said Mr. Summers's remarks might have put new energy into a
longstanding effort to improve the status of women in the sciences.
"I think they've provoked an intellectual tsunami," Dr. Denton said.
Howard Georgi, a physics professor and former chairman of the department, sent
an e-mail message to Mr. Summers, saying he made a mistake in judgment in
accepting the invitation to speak as a provoker. Dr. Georgi also sent a note
to his students assuring them that they were appreciated.
Maud Lavin, who graduated from Harvard in the class of 1976, was one of the
first women to take a demanding theoretical math sequence, Math 11 and Math
55, and is an associate professor at the School of the Art Institute of
Chicago. Ms Lavin said in an interview yesterday that she would not donate any
more money to Harvard as long as Mr. Summers was president, after firing off
an angry e-mail message to him.
"I am offended and furious about your remarks on women in science and
mathematics," Ms. Lavin wrote. "Arguments of innate gender difference in math
are hogwash and indirectly serve to feed the virulent prejudices still alas
very alive and now even more so due to your ill-informed remarks."
Students were also discussing the remarks. Thea Daniels, 21, a Harvard senior
majoring in sociology said she and her roommates spent Monday evening talking
about them.
"We were just upset," Ms. Daniels said. "It's disconcerting that the man who
is supposed to have your best interest in mind and is the leader of your
education community thinks less of us."
the above is total insanity. the man is being pilloried for having the gall to suggest that male and female abilities are not equal when all the science would indicate same is obviously true.
one would need to be blindfolded not to realise same.
jihad joe NO.
There are plenty of smart women and dumb men around. Conversly, there are plenty of dumb women and smart men around.
Generalizations don't work. Sorry.
of course they do --- read my posts. it all comes down to genetics and one can make generalisations based on sex, ethnic backgrounds and age.
Nitemare
Ex-Bluelighter
yes men are smarter than women, DUUH....
Re: Are men smarter than women?
Emotional Intelligence - Women are smarter.....(see book: Emotinal Intelligence by Daniel Goldman)......Women are much better manipulators.....Manipulation is at its most basic in the emotional level....
Logical Intelligence - Men are smarter and can keep emotions in check.....(which leads to better objective decisions)
ummm....yea
*awaits flames from numerous women*![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Emotional Intelligence - Women are smarter.....(see book: Emotinal Intelligence by Daniel Goldman)......Women are much better manipulators.....Manipulation is at its most basic in the emotional level....
Logical Intelligence - Men are smarter and can keep emotions in check.....(which leads to better objective decisions)
ummm....yea
*awaits flames from numerous women*
kittyinthedark
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2004
- Messages
- 10,887
I always have a tough time with this subject. I tend to see women as less analytical in general, but I'm a biochemistry major computer nerd, so I don't even fall into my own stereotype. I played Doom and Heretic all through my childhood. I was never really into Barbies - mostly Hot wheels and Legos (and those awesome Creepy Crawlers things). I played rugby in high school. I was also the head of the theater makeup department and planned two pep rallies and a prom. I've always been kind of a tomboy and a girly-girl all at the same time (i mean shit, you should see my prom dresses...).
I really think those kind of sociological roles make a huge difference in intellectual expression. I was always one of the "brains" as a kid, but because I was a girl, I was picked on for it endlessly. The smart boys could do whatever they wanted - they could even be popular - but smart girls were supposed to be quiet and shy. No wonder women try to avoid "smart" situations. I've had so many sexist math and science teachers I could puke, but I'm still a biochemistry major, and I actually enjoy my calculus classes. God knows that it would have been way less of a hassle to just be a poli-sci major... I've always faced a ton of pressure to belittle myself and deny my intelligence because I'm a female. I mean, I even catch myself being very awkward about telling people how well I do in school/standardized tests/competitions - especially when I'm talking with guys. When people ask those questions, I avoid them like the plague - I've gotten way too many bad looks for getting good grades. I have a female friend who goes to Harvard who won't even tell people she goes there because she thinks it's embarrassing to say it. I mean, those are two pretty clear cut examples of how society, in a way, "forces" women to be less intelligent.
Back to the real question - I don't think men or women are any more intelligent than the other, but I do think the expression of that intelligence is very different based on gender (i.e. how that intelligence is used/displayed). Ask anyone on the street and they'll probably say that they'd ask a woman for relationship advice before a guy, and that they'd ask a man how to fix a car before a woman. Just different uses of equal intelligences... And also as I said before, I think women are taught to repress any outward displays of intelligence, so most studies will be skewed.
I really think those kind of sociological roles make a huge difference in intellectual expression. I was always one of the "brains" as a kid, but because I was a girl, I was picked on for it endlessly. The smart boys could do whatever they wanted - they could even be popular - but smart girls were supposed to be quiet and shy. No wonder women try to avoid "smart" situations. I've had so many sexist math and science teachers I could puke, but I'm still a biochemistry major, and I actually enjoy my calculus classes. God knows that it would have been way less of a hassle to just be a poli-sci major... I've always faced a ton of pressure to belittle myself and deny my intelligence because I'm a female. I mean, I even catch myself being very awkward about telling people how well I do in school/standardized tests/competitions - especially when I'm talking with guys. When people ask those questions, I avoid them like the plague - I've gotten way too many bad looks for getting good grades. I have a female friend who goes to Harvard who won't even tell people she goes there because she thinks it's embarrassing to say it. I mean, those are two pretty clear cut examples of how society, in a way, "forces" women to be less intelligent.
Back to the real question - I don't think men or women are any more intelligent than the other, but I do think the expression of that intelligence is very different based on gender (i.e. how that intelligence is used/displayed). Ask anyone on the street and they'll probably say that they'd ask a woman for relationship advice before a guy, and that they'd ask a man how to fix a car before a woman. Just different uses of equal intelligences... And also as I said before, I think women are taught to repress any outward displays of intelligence, so most studies will be skewed.
digital_phreedom
Bluelighter
yes
000000
Ex-Bluelighter
men are smarter than women, by far. afterall, some places dont even hire women because theyre most likely to sue your ass over some stupid bullshit as opposed to a guy who doesnt really give a fuck. but anyway, that question is worded ALLL WROOONG.
Mariposa
Bluelight Crew
000000 said:
Oh, can the ridiculous generalizations, please. I hope you're a troll, and I'm not going to feed you...
And FWIW, all but one of the most effective manipulators I've ever known has been male.
AmorRoark
Bluelight Crew
I don't want to go on a feminist rant right now but I feel the need to point a few things out:
I don't think women are more "emotionally intelligent" than men... if this even holds merit it's because we're conditioned that way. Children of both sexes are typically brought up by mothers. Children know their sex by the age of 3 and start fulfilling their gender role around that time too. GENERALLY boys grow independent from their mothers and girls hold onto their bond. This is why women can/want to maintain relationships better. This is also why men have problems settling down. Although women are emotionally in tune with themselves it doesn't make it easier for them to manipulate.
On another note, I resent the fact that men think that women can't keep their emotions in check. Just because the acceptable mode of emotional outlet is predetermined by a male-created world doesn't mean that women can't adapt too (though, I don't think we should have to).
I noticed a common misconception (specifically in this thread) is that feminism = equal opportunity. That's not what feminism is about. It isn't about becoming biochemist, or having a 2-career marriage. It's about changing the standards placed on women in our male-dominated world. Everything around us is male-dominated and male-biased. Think of all your favorite books because I can pretty much guarantee that most of them have masculine ideas and ideals. Even our most famous books that are about women are masculine in nature.
I don't think women are more "emotionally intelligent" than men... if this even holds merit it's because we're conditioned that way. Children of both sexes are typically brought up by mothers. Children know their sex by the age of 3 and start fulfilling their gender role around that time too. GENERALLY boys grow independent from their mothers and girls hold onto their bond. This is why women can/want to maintain relationships better. This is also why men have problems settling down. Although women are emotionally in tune with themselves it doesn't make it easier for them to manipulate.
On another note, I resent the fact that men think that women can't keep their emotions in check. Just because the acceptable mode of emotional outlet is predetermined by a male-created world doesn't mean that women can't adapt too (though, I don't think we should have to).
I noticed a common misconception (specifically in this thread) is that feminism = equal opportunity. That's not what feminism is about. It isn't about becoming biochemist, or having a 2-career marriage. It's about changing the standards placed on women in our male-dominated world. Everything around us is male-dominated and male-biased. Think of all your favorite books because I can pretty much guarantee that most of them have masculine ideas and ideals. Even our most famous books that are about women are masculine in nature.
AmorRoark
Bluelight Crew
Yeah, what women do you know of had the TIME to learn to read poetry let alone write it? They were fucking held to the household until the last 50 years or so. Besides, if a woman DID write poetry or *gasp* a novel it wouldn't be taken seriously. Even Virginia Woolf's works were sincerely laughed at and mocked until she was long gone.
Apes Ma
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2004
- Messages
- 503
1) The answer will be subjective.
2) It doesn't matter. We're all humans, and we need to use our energy to unite and help one another instead of comparing, contrasting, and separating ourselves.
3) Standing in the snow barefoot for a minute prior to warming them beside a fire will provide a few moments of natural euphoria after the numbing pain recedes... and it's free!
2) It doesn't matter. We're all humans, and we need to use our energy to unite and help one another instead of comparing, contrasting, and separating ourselves.
3) Standing in the snow barefoot for a minute prior to warming them beside a fire will provide a few moments of natural euphoria after the numbing pain recedes... and it's free!
000000
Ex-Bluelighter
hey marpoinosa402, what in gods name is FWIW.