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Are doctors with or against helping people continue their drug use?

Hey guys, I'm not taking sides here, but I would really love for us all to come together here a little bit and accept that we have some different opinions regarding some of this stuff.

I hear the points of posters from both sides. The circumcision conversation is pretty far removed from what I would call our milleux, but, wait let me check... yes, we do still have freedom of speech in this Beaver Cleaver-meets-"The My Pillow Guy" curing Covid with poison-acid fueled nightmare that is America. The fucking pillow guy? Anyway, I digress.

You gentiles should consider yourself lucky. At least you get yours done by a doctor. As a jew, you have a few options: the baby's father did it traditionally. If he cant, a rabbi can, as can the Cantor (the equivalent of the person who plays the organ at a church) or a mohel can. Mohels are circumcision specialists (yes that's it). You just hope your Mohel has at least read his "for dummies" a couple times and isn't too hungover to the hold the scalpel steady.

All joking aside, there are indeed health benefits to the practice that have more or less been confirmed. 100% true story. My Mohel didnt do mine right and I somehow ended up peeing sideways til I was 3. Why am I talking about this. Breaking tension perhaps?
 
Atelier3 said:
Almost all your posts on BL reference your suicidal thoughts. Suicide is a very serious issue that has touched the lives of many bluelighters and because we are a caring community threats or intimations of suicide are taken seriously. They are also quite taxing on the community given there is little in the way of prevention or support that can really be given anonymously and online over the internet. They are especially taxing if you try and blame another member for making you suicidal or mentally ill as you have with @BellaJewel
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As a suicide thinker myself above comment is solumn advice.

Despite my reluctance to tell any dr. about my self medicating/ drug use. The catch 22 I am in which has me in balance with my feelings of killing myself and being there for my kids later in life when they need me. This I always are very open over with dr.'s.

They can help you prevent doing it.
 
Wanting to die and making attempts on taking your own life are two very different things. I can write an essay about how you should just live out your miserable existence until life is enjoyable again.. and I definitely do not condone suicide. However--if someone truly will never be able to appreciate life and will continuously suffer day after day and never smile again why would anyone want that life for anyone? Even a stranger? If someone is in so much god damn pain whether physical or mental all the time 24/7 and truly has tried everything--therapy.. medications.. etc and they simply get worse and worse. I wouldn't want to watch someone perpetually suffer. I don't know what someone else's life is really like.. but people don't commit suicide because things are mildly bad. They commit suicide because they're in so much pain they just want it to stop.
 
I'm always pretty brutally honest w/ my general doctor, the psychiatrist took some time just because many are judgey about addiction and it was difficult to get legit anxiety relief.

When you have a physical infection say it's brought on by drug use, the doctor needs to know what to give you to make it better. It's his job, he gets paid for your dumbassery, but generally every doctor I've ever talked to would prefer me be sober and happy, instead of all tweaked out, freaking about some minor skin infection.

It's their job, and generally sober people are easier to deal with at work, would be my guess.

Oh hey, circumcision fight.
 
deficiT said:
I'm always pretty brutally honest w/ my general doctor, the psychiatrist took some time just because many are judgey about addiction and it was difficult to get legit anxiety relief.

When you have a physical infection say it's brought on by drug use, the doctor needs to know what to give you to make it better. It's his job, he gets paid for your dumbassery, but generally every doctor I've ever talked to would prefer me be sober and happy, instead of all tweaked out, freaking about some minor skin infection.

It's their job, and generally sober people are easier to deal with at work, would be my guess.

Oh hey, circumcision fight.
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My first doctor was someone who absolutely didn't care about the patients (on the surface at least I really couldn't tell) but he was an addict himself and was willing to prescribe mostly whatever to patients who at least could be categorized into so-and-so conditions. He knew that if someone sought him out and paid for the visits that at least they were willing to go through the process for whatever they wanted to be important enough within their lives. He knew I didn't genuinely have ADD but I could sense that he knew that if the script was not from him legally it would probably some other place that would be illegal and cause problems for me in the long run. So he was just in a way a mediator for the lesser of evils. Which in a way is a viable kind of doctor for many Americans because it's true--if we're not getting it from doctors realistically we're going to risk our personal lives to get what we want anyway. At least a doctor keeps us out of legal problems you know? Sometimes not prescribing someone painkillers because "they might be an addict" will just make them look for street heroin because the pain is so awful and then they'll medicate themselves with unknown variable powder and potentially OD. Most doctors don't want that on their conscious.

But they also don't want to be the reason someone harms themselves or OD's. There's just a grey line and ultimately they're human and can't personally reach us on a level that the line becomes clear. My original doctor vanished (lol) and now I have another. She's fresh out of her (wow I'm forgetting what it's called smh) post-graduation real doctor test program. It's such an obvious term my god. Regardless this woman is less of a pill-pusher and more about treating conditions in the least addictive manner. Maybe because she's new she isn't so affected by the blurred section of medicine yet and is still trying to understand patients and how they operate. She's been pretty awesome so far.. and I like the extended release adderall better than the initial IR kind that my doctor just threw at me. So I'll let you know how things fan out because she's literally just my doctor since the past two months.

I just think that at the end of the day they are human and they are trying to make moral decisions but also medicinal ones. Addicts come in every shape and size and can't be fit into boxes. I can tell when someone has a monster within them even if they're trying to hide it because I have one too. But maybe a doctor who was never prone to addiction other than book-studying needs more time to recognize that. It's so complex and there's no way not to make some patients miserable lol. Some patients can be happy with their doctor's decision and randomly end up dead. If you give someone an oxycodone script and they run back at you with "it's not strong enough dilauded please? So much pain." There's no way to really know if they're telling the truth or not.. :(
 
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
My first doctor was someone who absolutely didn't care about the patients (on the surface at least I really couldn't tell) but he was an addict himself and was willing to prescribe mostly whatever to patients who at least could be categorized into so-and-so conditions. He knew that if someone sought him out and paid for the visits that at least they were willing to go through the process for whatever they wanted to be important enough within their lives. He knew I didn't genuinely have ADD but I could sense that he knew that if the script was not from him legally it would probably some other place that would be illegal and cause problems for me in the long run. So he was just in a way a mediator for the lesser of evils. Which in a way is a viable kind of doctor for many Americans because it's true--if we're not getting it from doctors realistically we're going to risk our personal lives to get what we want anyway. At least a doctor keeps us out of legal problems you know? Sometimes not prescribing someone painkillers because "they might be an addict" will just make them look for street heroin because the pain is so awful and then they'll medicate themselves with unknown variable powder and potentially OD. Most doctors don't want that on their conscious.

But they also don't want to be the reason someone harms themselves or OD's. There's just a grey line and ultimately they're human and can't personally reach us on a level that the line becomes clear. My original doctor vanished (lol) and now I have another. She's fresh out of her (wow I'm forgetting what it's called smh) post-graduation real doctor test program. It's such an obvious term my god. Regardless this woman is less of a pill-pusher and more about treating conditions in the least addictive manner. Maybe because she's new she isn't so affected by the blurred section of medicine yet and is still trying to understand patients and how they operate. She's been pretty awesome so far.. and I like the extended release adderall better than the initial IR kind that my doctor just threw at me. So I'll let you know how things fan out because she's literally just my doctor since the past two months.

I just think that at the end of the day they are human and they are trying to make moral decisions but also medicinal ones. Addicts come in every shape and size and can't be fit into boxes. I can tell when someone has a monster within them even if they're trying to hide it because I have one too. But maybe a doctor who was never prone to addiction other than book-studying needs more time to recognize that. It's so complex and there's no way not to make some patients miserable lol. Some patients can be happy with their doctor's decision and randomly end up dead. If you give someone an oxycodone script and they run back at you with "it's not strong enough dilauded please? So much pain." There's no way to really know if they're telling the truth or not.. :(
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You're absolutely correct. The schooling alone, is simply brutal, all the internships, the long hours that many in the healthcare industry work, and generally having to deal w/ the general public in a much *closer* fashion than any other occupation, has got to be stressful. Some doctors just have been doing it too long, that they no longer have that "velvet glove" to deal with the bullshit anymore. They could just be going through the motions.

But yeah doctors come in all shapes and sizes, I always preferred the ones that just gave me what I needed w/o too much grief, but that was really only one psychiatrist I found, out of network. And even then I couldn't stand her personality. It isn't an easy gig, and it's a shame doctors don't just get a good salary.
 
deficiT said:
You're absolutely correct. The schooling alone, is simply brutal, all the internships, the long hours that many in the healthcare industry work, and generally having to deal w/ the general public in a much *closer* fashion than any other occupation, has got to be stressful. Some doctors just have been doing it too long, that they no longer have that "velvet glove" to deal with the bullshit anymore. They could just be going through the motions.

But yeah doctors come in all shapes and sizes, I always preferred the ones that just gave me what I needed w/o too much grief, but that was really only one psychiatrist I found, out of network. And even then I couldn't stand her personality. It isn't an easy gig, and it's a shame doctors don't just get a good salary.
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Oh yeah. I'm sure many people become doctors because they genuinely want to help people and improve their lives. But then the patients are just always suffering no matter what option you decide because the reality is--if you're in so much pain that oxycodone won't put a dent in even at high doses.. I genuinely feel for you but the opiate route is not only going to leave you still in a lot of physical pain but also invade your personal life and throw mental anguish on top of that. I don't know what the answer is for patients like that and I don't think even the most esteemed doctors know what to do. No doubt big pharma is searching for pain alternatives that satisfy people in a way that doesn't leave them--umm in a point that they have to constantly beg for more at the risk of their own lives. Like politics if you make one decision someone will be saved but then a thousand angry phone calls and emails flood your personal life and it just becomes so fucked lol.

If you get what you want from your doctor just don't push it. Take it or leave it and try to cope because I think you know that if you ask for more and more deep down something morally just doesn't feel right. Somewhere in that brain of yours ;) I've been debating for a couple of weeks now whether to ask for a slight dose increase of my script. I'm sure she'd do it but I'm not sure if I want to do it to myself. I don't genuinely know if I have ADD still. It was actually a while back that I first obtained the script and maybe I do. It's one of those grey things now :LOL: If someone has mild back pain (I know that even that really sucks) and you run to a doctor for a painkiller script just be careful what you wish for. Sometimes we really don't know what we're asking for.
 
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GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
Oh yeah. I'm sure many people become doctors because they genuinely want to help people and improve their lives. But then the patients are just always suffering no matter what option you decide because the reality is--if you're in so much pain that oxycodone won't put a dent in even at high doses.. I genuinely feel for you but the opiate route is not only going to leave you still in a lot of physical pain but also invade your personal life and throw mental anguish on top of that. I don't know what the answer is for patients like that and I don't think even the most esteemed doctors know what to do. No doubt big pharma is searching for pain alternatives that satisfy people in a way that doesn't leave them--umm in a point that they have to constantly beg for more at the risk of their own lives. Like politics if you make one decision someone will be saved but then a thousand angry phone calls and emails flood your personal life and it just becomes so fucked lol.

If you get what you want from your doctor just don't push it. Take it or leave it and try to cope because I think you know that if you ask for more and more deep down something morally just doesn't feel right. Somewhere in that brain of yours ;) I've been debating for a couple of weeks now whether to ask for a slight dose increase of my script. I'm sure she'd do it but I'm not sure if I want to do it to myself. I don't genuinely know if I have ADD still. It was actually a while back that I first obtained the script and maybe I do. It's one of those grey things now :LOL: If someone has mild back pain (I know that even that really sucks) and you run to a doctor for a painkiller script just be careful what you wish for. Sometimes we really don't know what we're asking for.
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Yeah for real, I thought I had it on lock for a couple years w/ my little addy and klon script. Of course my life fell apart this past June and I wound up in a Psych Ward, being taken off of said medicine w/ utmost haste.

It was a shit feeling, going through opiate, benzo, and amphetamine wd all at once, especially in the middle of a manic episode. So I lost all my "good" meds and was put on seroquel and host of others. I've found that that is what I probably "should" be on, as I'm doing so much better than I was.
 
It’s definitely tricky to ask physicians/psychiatrists for the drugs we need and/or want. If we request particular drugs by brand name and dosages, these queries may be seen as a red flag to our health care providers and we may be regarded as drug seeking addicts.

Such knowledge may, in fact, be indicative of the informed patient, not wishing to waste either our time, nor our doctor’s time, by trying out random drugs needlessly, when we know from experience that a drug is effective for the management of our symptoms. Unfortunately, the scenario of the “drug-educated” patient is not widely accepted as the case for many drug-knowledgeable people seeking a script for particular medications. When a patient requests a script for a drug, and there is no record
of this drug being prescribed to them previously, but the patient reports an improvement in symptoms with the drug, it is often assumed the patient is a drug addict.

In the case of many U.S. patients, mental health benefits are not included with health care insurance and this is an out-of-pocket expense. As a result, many people try drugs that are not prescribed to them, like benzos, ADD/ADHD drugs, and other drugs used in the management of mental health symptoms. These people have experienced a vast improvement or a manageable reduction in their symptoms, allowing them to focus on the daily aspects of living again. Most times the original source of these meds was a friend or family member being treated for the condition the patient suspects they themselves suffer from. It’s unfortunate to deny a patient this benefit because a doctor is concerned about the basis of patient’s knowledge of the drug.
 
BellaJewel said:
It’s definitely tricky to ask physicians/psychiatrists for the drugs we need and/or want. If we request particular drugs by brand name and dosages, these queries may be seen as a red flag to our health care providers and we may be regarded as drug seeking addicts.

Such knowledge may, in fact, be indicative of the informed patient, not wishing to waste either our time, nor our doctor’s time, by trying out random drugs needlessly, when we know from experience that a drug is effective for the management of our symptoms. Unfortunately, the scenario of the “drug-educated” patient is not widely accepted as the case for many drug-knowledgeable people seeking a script for particular medications. When a patient requests a script for a drug, and there is no record
of this drug being prescribed to them previously, but the patient reports an improvement in symptoms with the drug, it is often assumed the patient is a drug addict.

In the case of many U.S. patients, mental health benefits are not included with health care insurance and this is an out-of-pocket expense. As a result, many people try drugs that are not prescribed to them, like benzos, ADD/ADHD drugs, and other drugs used in the management of mental health symptoms. These people have experienced a vast improvement or a manageable reduction in their symptoms, allowing them to focus on the daily aspects of living again. Most times the original source of these meds was a friend or family member being treated for the condition the patient suspects they themselves suffer from. It’s unfortunate to deny a patient this benefit because a doctor is concerned about the basis of patient’s knowledge of the drug.
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Imo, this type of sentiment is exactly why the overdose crisis has gotten as bad as it has. Doctors don't think people can think for themselves and refuse to prescribe safer opiates for pain management or any other reason, thus a lot of people end up in the street, where the fentanyl kills super quickly. They are forced to self medicate to get by and they end up worse off than they would've been w/ a prescription opioid.

I hate that labeling someone as a drug seeker, I've found most of the time I am more knowledgable about the medications than some of the doctors I've met. Certainly not just cause I want to get "high", but it just might be, that I have more than a passing interest about something I intend to ingest for any length of time.
 
I think it helps to tell your doctor exactly what symptoms you are going through. What your life is like on a day-to-day basis and why you are plagued by your condition in vivid details. I'm sure some junkie out there is going to type up a microsoft word script and rehearse it for hours just to nail the part. I wish I was making a joke but really those are the patients that show up to the doctor's office. I've seen them and sat next to them in the waiting room. Yes--they do have chronic pain. And yes... they are dependent and addicted to it objectively. But even then it's just hard to convincingly create a false scenario of how your life is really like. And if they ask you a question about anything you've said on the spot--someone who isn't exaggerating or lying about it wouldn't be shaken up by telling another angle of their condition. Of course this isn't perfect and doctors can flag anyone down for any reason with their position of power.

Remember: They have the ability and authority to pull you into their office at any moment and check your script. That's probably not going to happen unless they sense someone is really out of sorts or becoming dysfunctional (and even then I've only seen it done for opioid medication and stronger ones) Most of us would panic and "left it at my grandma's house" because realistically sometimes we need just a little bit more some days than others. I genuinely hope she does not do this to me lol. Absolutely not.
 
I‘m of the opinion not all doctors are created the same. There are a vast amount of difference of opinions amongst doctors when it comes to addiction, some doctors have extreme bias and some are more forgiving. It really comes down to finding the right doctor and creating a relationship with them built on trust.

If your only end game is to receive a prescription under false claims, most doctors will be able to see through that pretty quickly. I was just at the spine doctor today trying to figure out the disaster with my C3 and C4 and nerve pain into the right side of my head and neck, and there was this lady who was moving around perfectly, was obviously high and kept saying how bad she needed an appointment because her lower back hurt and she needed medication and also requested the doctor to not want to order imagine.

I just remember thinking, in the moment, how two different doctors could analyze that situation. One may immediately think this is drug seeking behavior and write them off, but one may realize that this is a human being and people are complex, take the time to listen and actually find out this person is in legitimate extreme pain.

I think our inherent biases and life experiences would dictate how anyone would approach similar situations.

When it comes to discussing specific drugs with doctors, that requires context as well. If I were to talk into a specialty doctor and start going off about which medications I think would work best, I’d probably have pretty poor results, as usually doctors like that don’t like being told anything and they’re usually the ones who possess all the knowledge. Now, maybe after developing a relationship with the doctor that would change, but not up front. For a primary doctor, I’d think the results would fare similarly.
 
some conditions will clear up if you stop using drugs, in which case it makes no sense for doctors to treat them. like if you were complaining of insomnia while using stimulants.

i was refused treatment for a treatable hip problem when i was anorexic because it was caused by my anorexia and cleared up when i gained weight. i knew a crackhead through NA who was denied a heart operation because he was deemed to be unlikely to benefit in the long term. he'd had a previous op and not stopped using. he died of his heart condition. in a world of finite resources i think there is only so much you can spend on one person, if you have offered them the tools to address their addiction and they have not taken them or responded well to them, taking away life saving treatment from someone else to treat them does seem a bit wasteful.
 
I have found in Australia that there is a significant difference between dealing with GPs/Family Doctors and specialists. GP’s are loathe to prescribe anything and government regulations and their professional association set very tight guidelines about what they can prescribe. Surgeons, Neurologists, and Psychiatrists on the other hand can largely do what they want and are much more open to prescribing drugs of dependence although it does still boil down to the philosophy of the individual doctor.

Over the course of my mental health problems I have been treated by 6 different psychiatrists. Two thought drug users were scum. Two others thought self-medication with IV cocaine was a sign of ADHD for which the gold class treatment is dexamfetamine which they duly prescribed.
 
Same here in the US, @Atelier3 . I have a rock solid relationship with my GP since I have to coordinate all my other medical care with her, so I’m always in communication with her, so she is a lot more willing to prescribe for me. She even prescribed me oxycodone when I had my venous ulcers, which was a huge deal with my history — it felt nice to be treated like a human being by a doctor for once.

But yeah, generally, GP/Family/Internal Medicine doctors seems extremely hesitant to prescribe much of anything. They refer everything out to the speciality doctors, and they are hit or miss when it comes to finding one who can manage to treat someone with a drug addiction like a human being. It took me 7 different doctors to finally find my current GP and I wouldn’t replace her for the world, she’s undeniably a big reason my medical issues has made a turnaround.
 
He is not my GP but I've made good with a doctor who saw me while I was all fuckered up in July on a telehealth app and he wound up calling an ambulance on me because I was totally incoherent drunk and puking blood on video chat. I told the ambulance and police to fuck off vehemently..

Anyway I needed a referral to a psychiatrist yesterday and who do I get but him! He is a GP who specializes in addictions. Had a decent 20 minute chat with him and have him the update. He's glad to see I was coherent yesterday. He made the referral and also Im welcome to contact him anytime.

I have an addictions doc!
 
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