anything stronger than DMT?
- Thread starter daturaface
- Start date
Cyanoide
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2011
- Messages
- 1,398
It would be interesting to hear arguments about why DMT is more intense than 5-MeO-DMT. I'm not saying you can't have that opinion, just curious about why.
Cyanoide
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2011
- Messages
- 1,398
I think you'll be proven wrong
Very high doses of mushrooms and 4-AcO-DMT feels a bit like a low dose of DMT. This has been reported by many users, and I don't disagree. Not really surprising, as 4-PO-DMT, 4-HO-DMT and 4-AcO-DMT all are 4-subs of DMT.
Splitz
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2010
- Messages
- 552
Ohhhh, you're in for a surprise! I hope it's pleasant. In fact, I hope it's mind-blowingly, 1,000,000% fantastic. That's a possibility.
I really really want to try 5-MeO-DMT though. Oh god it sounds good.
They're in the same ball park but no matter how high the dose of psilocybin it isn't quite the same as oral DMT.
Mushrooms WITH moclobemide is pretty much exactly the same as oral DMT tho.
As far as there's a 5HT psychedelic hammer, IV DMT is probably the bashiest. I once took ayahuasca and then smoked salvia extract with a 5-MeO-DMT snow cap in order to "seek the hammer's nail." Everything sort of froze and there was nothing but a symbol in my mind's eye. It looked kind of like "@" . This symbol divided orthogonally, repeating itself horizontally, vertically, etc, until it divided into a higher spatial plane. At this point I became aware of the living room and felt as though the viscera of my ego had been used to decorate the walls. I felt like I was "up in the clock," but also "down by the divan" and the strings of my nerves were all rotating through extra-space. My back suddenly felt like it had had vinegar injected subcutaneously into it. It burned. Then I stumbled to the bathroom to puke because it was all so intense something had to fly out of it -- and it was my dinner.
So yeah, nothing, by itself, more intense than DMT -- and salvia is of a different class so it's not even really on the same frequency -- but you can do combos.
So yeah, nothing, by itself, more intense than DMT -- and salvia is of a different class so it's not even really on the same frequency -- but you can do combos.
space_monkey
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 29
Yup. Because there's all of that PLUS aliens! And it's the most overwhelmingly visual psychedelic experience possible.
XThexXTank
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,103
Hmm yeh i got ya man this is what ya do:
Supplies:
PCP
5-meo-dmt
dmt
Ketamine
Rollin papers/ blunt
Procedure:
Now take those rollin supplies and roll yerself up a jeffrey but dont put the k in there cuz i dont think thats gonna work, snort some before hand you know what i mean.
On a side note though, your options here are not limited. The dmt and the other stuff is required for the intense trip, but you can use yer imagination and throw some other things into the mix to make yer own cocktail. MDMA and lsd are popular.
PS i never done this but you sound like yer a psychadelic tank so figure yer doses and let us know wuts good
Supplies:
PCP
5-meo-dmt
dmt
Ketamine
Rollin papers/ blunt
Procedure:
Now take those rollin supplies and roll yerself up a jeffrey but dont put the k in there cuz i dont think thats gonna work, snort some before hand you know what i mean.
On a side note though, your options here are not limited. The dmt and the other stuff is required for the intense trip, but you can use yer imagination and throw some other things into the mix to make yer own cocktail. MDMA and lsd are popular.
PS i never done this but you sound like yer a psychadelic tank so figure yer doses and let us know wuts good
PeacePipeChief
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2012
- Messages
- 643
A friend of mine was on 3 tabs of acid 3 points of ice and then injected k for a k-hole (not sure how much k) , he said that was pretty fucking intense lol
Cyanoide
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2011
- Messages
- 1,398
Interesting. Do you rank DMT more intense than 5-MeO-DMT when smoked too? I've never IV'ed anything so I can't comment on that.
A combo that probably also would be quite a psychedelic hammer would be to load both DMT and 5-MeO-DMT in a pipe and smoke it. Not what I would do it though. I suspect they don't have an especially good synergy.
Is there anyone who've actually taken this combo? DMT + 5-MeO-DMT I mean.
Flickering
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2011
- Messages
- 1,118
Doing DMT at the height of an LSD trip is said to be utterly overwhelming. If you're game, maybe try that. I would really think about doing it while coming down from the LSD the first time, though.
vegan
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2003
- Messages
- 6,392
i'll replace DMT with 5-MeO-DMT to comment
exactly : you cannot imagine
what happens on 5-MeO-DMT can't be explained or imagined because we have no experiences that remotely compare or words that would have any significance in describing it
think of a blind person trying to imagine what seeing is like
can't
you cannot imagine the intensity of 5-MeO-DMT
in my opinion, it is possible to a degree to describe a DMT experience, even though it doesn't do justice
about 5-MeO-DMT, as many people here describe it as terrifying, i'd like to add that for some, it's total bliss from the third second till the end of the experience
and yes, go for a breakthrough dose, which is less likely to feel uncomfortable than a low dose
It's difficult to quantify the intensity of things like DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, or salvinorin A. I guess maybe an argument could be made that vaporized DMT is more intense than vaporized 5-MeO-DMT simply because the DMT experience is more variable. The less variable effects of 5-MeO mean that, on subsequent attempts, you can prepare a little better for it. It's always a dissolve into egoless white light type experience whereas with DMT the mothership is uploading the knowledge of different interdimensional alien civilizations each time. For the person trying each for the first time though, I'd say they're about even in intensity. I've not IV'd DMT actually -- didn't mean to imply I had. I was just acknowledging that it's going to be the fastest route. I don't think there's a huge difference in the experience of IV vs. vaporized, it's just that some people IV to avoid the harsh smoke is all. Whether you tie off, IV, then let loose or take it all in in one or two vaporized lung fulls it's gonna blast you about the same.
Regarding the vaporized DMT/5-MeO-DMT combo: I think Erowid has a report on that. I think the combo could be good, but maybe not to everyone's tastes. 5-MeO is more of a straight to ego death vaporization experience whereas if DMT is gonna kill your ego it's gonna make you understand exactly how the murder is happening. I imagine the combo would be like DMT alone but with more warm white dissolution.
Wouldn't mixing DMT, LSD or salvia or any of these strong psychedelics with a delirant like datura ( not at all saying it's a good idea!) be really powerful sense in normal psychedelics you know your at lease 'tripping', but with a delirant you think it's real life everything around you is 'real' in a sense even if it's a flying rainbow pig.
I may be wrong?
I may be wrong?
Cyanoide
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2011
- Messages
- 1,398
While I stand by my opinion that 5-MeO-DMT is more intense than DMT, you make some good points I just have to comment. Actually I'm going to play a little devil's advocate with myself and partially contradict some of the opinions I stated earlier in this thread.
One thing that can make DMT more "frightening" (in lack of a better word, I'm not really meaning intense either) is that you actually have some time to be present in the moment and witness your ego being dissolved. It happens fast, very fast, but not so fast that you aren't able to catch up. I gets intense, more intense, and even more intense until you (maybe) eventually experience a breakthrough. 5-MeO-DMT shreds you to pieces so fast you're pretty much gone before noticing it. Many people I've seen smoking 5-MeO-DMT (especially the first time) "freeze"; they forget to breath out. Some drop the pipe (I'd hold it for a first-timer). The come-up is so rapid there's not necessarily any time to think about or feel fear. With DMT you have this little space of time where you feel you're travelling into hyperspace.
Also, even on breakthroughs DMT always leaves some part of my ego intact. It may be such a tiny part I hardly notice it, and it's definitely an ego-death. 5-MeO-DMT is the only psychedelic that completely annihilates every single part of my ego; I cease to exist. This difference also means that I'm more aware with DMT, and awareness can induce fear. With 5-MeO-DMT, there is nothing to feel fear with, because "I", the experiencer, is gone. In this sense DMT is more explorative. And that is one reason I like DMT more. It's more like a journey, while 5-MeO-DMT is more like being frozen in time. Everything stops. Everything ceases to be. The only thing left is the white light, eminating from inside and outside, immersing you completely. I suspect seeing and experiencing this light (which is usual on 5-MeO-DMT) is why some are convinced they have met God; why some atheists become agnostics; why some feel they have reached Samadhi. This experience should not be underestimated. It is extremely powerful. While not much else necessarily happens, this white light, which I personally perceive as a life-eminating force, can be everything. There's no colourful visuals, no landscapes or entities, no elves or dwarves like with DMT. But there need not be. It's not a characteristic of 5-MeO-DMT. It's definitely characteristic of DMT and without the otherwordly visuals the DMT experience would be derived a huge deal of its richness and beauty.
There's certainly no denying in that DMT is more variable. More unpredictive. But I would never, ever say that 5-MeO-DMT is generic because the experiences are less variable. You have a better understanding of what to expect. But although I've taken maybe 60-70 hits of 5-MeO-DMT, I still have butterflies in my stomach every time I lit the pipe. I don't think I'll ever be fully prepared for 5-MeO-DMT. And maybe that's because I actually know what there is to expect. That's another way of looking at it. Both the uncertainty of what DMT will give you, or the stronger certainty of what 5-MeO-DMT will give you, can contribute to the intensity and fear. But we are talking about preparedness now. Not actually being immersed in the experience.
If intense would equal fear (which it partially does for me), sub-breakthrough doses of 5-MeO-DMT would be far more intense than DMT. That is why I always aim for a complete breakthrough with 5-MeO-DMT. DMT can be thoroughly enjoyable, yet mystic and profound without breaking through. IME, this does not apply as much to 5-MeO-DMT. Awareness of my ego and body can be horrifying on 5-MeO-DMT. Because I am there, present in the moment, to experience all emotions and actually understand and interpret them with my ego. And my ego can do nasty things on 5-MeO-DMT (the most usual one is convincing me I'm dying or have killed myself); much less so with DMT.
Edit: Lastly, 5-MeO-DMT lasts considerably longer. I actually mean considerably, even if it means 10-20 minutes versus 5-10 minutes on DMT. Time has no meaning on these compounds. However, on DMT I'm sometimes almost disappointed it's over so quickly. 5-MeO-DMT seems to last for an infinity, and I never hope it would have lasted longer.
Edit2: If it confuses you that I say 5-MeO-DMT doesn't induce fear because "I" doesn't exist and say it can induce intense fear, I'm talking about breakthroughs and sub-breakthroughs and the difference beween them.
Last edited:
Dr3wb34r
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2012
- Messages
- 22
This is on the line between dangerous and just stupid.
Though it may be a fun thought, I would shudder to think of anybody doing this outside of an extremely controlled and safe environment.