Opioids Anybody got any experience with substances that lower your opiate tolerance; or enhance opiate highs?

[DeathIndustrial88]

Speedballing? I have terrible times combining opiates with stims but the speedballs I was doing are trashy.

I imagine Chris Farley was doing the best speedballs you could bang for your buck with that status.

17 rehabs didn't stop him.

Meh, it depends on what you consider a speedball.

To me, a true speedball is cocaine & heroin.

But I find that other stims like amphetamines & even weak stims like ephedrine can potentiate opioids incredibly.

Stuff like Ritalin & Welbutrin, I seem to have a terrible time with though. Opioids always seemed to feel dampened & have no 'stimulating' edge to them whenever I would take them after coming down from DRI's like Ritalin & Welbutrin.

 

[unodelacosa]

I should have been more specific and said grapefruit juice. It inhibits the action of the enzyme CYP3A4, which metabolizes a range of drugs including opiates, and this increases the blood plasma concentration of opiates by a large amount. (Hence why the consumption of grapefruit is contra - indicated with several medications.)

That's fine, and I'm not trying to call anyone out on technicalities here, but not all citric fruit inhibits cytochrome P450; however, all of it lowers renal pH.

As for 'toxins', it's the correct word

Not in my opinion. According to Merriam-Webster, a toxin is: “an antigenic poison or venom of plant or animal origin, especially one produced by or derived from microorganisms and causing disease when present at low concentration in the body.” And before anyone tries to argue that drugs can be lethally toxic, let me just point out that dihydrogen monoxide—aka: water—can also be lethally toxic and has a scary-looking MSDS sheet (after all, water causes corrosion, has an established LD50 with an annual number of overdoses, can conduct deadly electricity, and frequently causes many fatal asphyxiations each year). I think something must be intentionally produced to be a poison or venom to classify as a real toxin. Or perhaps I'm just being extra and who really cares? To-MAY-to, to-MAH-to and all that, and so on and so forth, &c., ad nauseum.

 

[unodelacosa]

Meh, it depends on what you consider a speedball.

To me, a true speedball is cocaine & heroin.

But I find that other stims like amphetamines & even weak stims like ephedrine can potentiate opioids incredibly.

Stuff like Ritalin & Welbutrin, I seem to have a terrible time with though. Opioids always seemed to feel dampened & have no 'stimulating' edge to them whenever I would take them after coming down from DRI's like Ritalin & Welbutrin.

Yeah but if you consider cocaine to be a “true speedball”—and I agree—and you speculate DRIs like Ritalin and Wellbutrin cause opioids to “feel dampened”, then consider: cocaine is a serotonin-, norepinephrine-, and dopamine-reuptake inhibitor (SNDRI), and I wonder if it has something more to do with serotonergic activity… thoughts?

EDIT: also, I think opiates have a reversing effect to serotonergic drugs. Idk what this means for all drug interactions though, just interesting to note.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Yeah but if you consider cocaine to be a “true speedball”—and I agree with that—and you speculate that DRIs like Ritalin and Wellbutrin cause opioids to “feel dampened”, but then consider: cocaine is a serotonin-, norepinephrine- and dopamine-inhibitor (SNDRI), and I wonder if it has something more to do with serotonin activity… thoughts?

EDIT: also, I think opiates have a reversing effect to serotonergic drugs. Idk what this means for all drug interactions though, just interesting to note.

No, you do make a very great point.

I've only ever used heroin + cocaine once & it was not by IV and I seemed to be able to enjoy both of them at the same time.
Although I also smoked a blunt, so I was just feeling pretty damn good for a minute. So I don't have enough experience with this combo to give a better opinion.

Although I do have plenty of experience with buproprion, concerta & ritalin with buprenorphine. And buperenorphine feels completely blunted (except maybe some emotional blunting & tiredness) for a good 24-48hrs after using the aforementioned drugs.

However, amphetamine/m-amp + buprenorphine/heroin/other opioids combined always seemed to offer more analgesia, more euphoria & a more 'alert' & intense nod.
However this can be really dangerous, so I don't think anyone should be playing with these two strong classes of drugs unless they know what they're doing and are aware of their tolerance levels.

There have also been times where heroin wasn't euphoric after coming off of m-amp, I assume because my neurotransmitters had been depleted. So it can be really subjective & timing and individual responses are a thing.

Not sure why cocaine + heroin would still work.
I've always assumed dopamine reuptake inhition might effect dopamine release from opioids & other drugs, but I could be wrong. However my experience with combing opioids & DRIs (other than cocaine) has been very lackluster and I can't put a finger exactly on why. Amps + opioids make both stronger though.

 

[unodelacosa]

Not sure why cocaine + heroin would still work.

Cocaine differs from Ritalin and Wellbutrin in that it has considerably more serotonergic activity. Perhaps this has something to do with it.

I've always assumed dopamine reuptake inhition might effect dopamine release from opioids & other drugs, but I could be wrong. However my experience with combing opioids & DRIs (other than cocaine) has been very lackluster and I can't put a finger exactly on why. Amps + opioids make both stronger though.

Consider for a moment how Tramadol affects 5-HT and synergizes these effects with its affinity for the µ-opioid receptor. Also consider Tapentadol and how it sorta does the same thing but with norepinephrine instead of serotonin.

 

[JTemperance]

Nicotine is an easy one to forget about, but it really kicks up an opiate high, and often makes the difference between a nod or a not. This is true whether you normally smoke or not, and it's true for vaping though less pronounced.

Also, sleep deprivation can boost the subjective effects IMHO. When I dabbled with Tylenol #3 etc. many moons ago, I'd always wait until I was sleep-deprived before tapping into my little treasure chest. Preferably, I'd be somewhat hungover and anxious; in retrospect, it almost gives you a taste of being dope-sick -- which is a great potentiator!

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Cocaine differs from Ritalin and Wellbutrin in that it has considerably more serotonergic activity. Perhaps this has something to do with it.

Consider for a moment how Tramadol affects 5-HT and synergizes these effects with its affinity for the µ-opioid receptor. Also consider Tapentadol and how it sorta does the same thing but with norepinephrine instead of serotonin.

Very true. You may be onto something.

Tramadol use to have a very unique serotonin-like quality to it's effects. Almost felt like a small dose of MDMA or some other empathogen-like substance.
And it carries this effect for a few days before you really develop a tolerance to it. Other opioids like heroin can sort of feel this way at times too. One of my first times doing a lot of heroin, I was with 2 friends of mine and we felt so amazing that we all wanted to cuddle and just scratch our bodies and spread love. It was a beautiful feeling. Maybe even better than tramadol's. but tramadol's "empathogen-like" qualities were a bit more melancholic and different. Hard to explain since it's so subjective, but this was just my experience. I love both tramadol and diacetylmorphine.

I loved tramadol for a decade. But I found that it does not affect me the same way now in my 30's like it did in my early 20's.
I'm not sure why. Maybe because I ended up with a tolerance to heroin & buprenorphine. Maybe my liver enzymes are different now. I don't quite know, but even it's serotonin activities seemed like they've burnt out & are not as "magical" as it was all through out my 20's.


All in all, I find tramadol fascinating. It gets a lot of shit and I can see why but for a newbie like me waay back in the day, it was the easiest to access. And I can honestly say that some of my fondest life memories were when I was on this drug.

 

[hylite]

I used to get high and then lay on the couch drinking tea. Many were the times I nodded out and spilled hot tea all over myself, lol.

I don't think modern commercial energy drinks existed at all at the time. If they did I was unaware of it.

A few years later when I got into Adderall and then meth red bulls and rockstars were popular

Thank you for the great recommendation. It works amazing. More than I would have realized. It is a blessing.

 

[Oxymuncher]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Proglumide as a tolerance reduction agent. I've heard great things; hard to get ahold of but it's meant to be the gold standard of it. I'm talking reducing a 2 * 80mg tab a day habit to 30-40 mg a day in weeks.

 

[LivingOnValium]

Meh, it depends on what you consider a speedball.

To me, a true speedball is cocaine & heroin.

But I find that other stims like amphetamines & even weak stims like ephedrine can potentiate opioids incredibly.

Stuff like Ritalin & Welbutrin, I seem to have a terrible time with though. Opioids always seemed to feel dampened & have no 'stimulating' edge to them whenever I would take them after coming down from DRI's like Ritalin & Welbutrin.

Injectable bupropion IS a horrible drug as soon as you Push down the plunger
Your Heartbeat is doubled and you instantly become a super jittery mess. IV Ritalin on The otherhand with of without the Heroin is a real treat. 40mg IV MPH gives you euphofiric and laser like focus like nothing else. Heroin sure easilly overpowers it but it certainly adds to The euphofiria.

 

[LostloveCH]

I'm on bupe atm and I've tapered down without telling the people who give me it so I have a pretty big stockpile of the stuff, over 700mg I believe.

I recently got a new bed and did a lot of rearranging/cleaning in my room and found a stash of roughly a ½Oz of H I completely forgot about and it's really good H too.

I wasn't planning on it, but now it's there's it's too tempting. I plan on smoking it after the programme/when I'm off bupe and then using the stockpiled bupe I have and then I'll taper off that when the H is used up (please, no lectures, I know what I'm capable of. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't have the stockpiled bupe)

All this said, my tolerance will by absolutely sky-high after I've stopped taking buprenorphine. Does anybody know of anything that can lower your tolerance to opiates? I've heard proglumide can cut it in HALF which seems amazing but I can't seem to find any decent sources for it, especially seeing as I'm in the UK.

Does anybody know of anything that can lower your tolerance to opiates? Or, even better, if taken in conjunction with opiates it increases the effects as it essentially lowers your tolerance on the spot/whilst you take it? I've heard of such things being possible. Or alternatively, anything that can enhance the effects of smoking the H/taking opiates?


Literally any help/info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Pregabalin enhances the opiate affect on your body. They help when reducing your methadone prescription too.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Injectable bupropion IS a horrible drug as soon as you Push down the plunger
Your Heartbeat is doubled and you instantly become a super jittery mess. IV Ritalin on The otherhand with of without the Heroin is a real treat. 40mg IV MPH gives you euphofiric and laser like focus like nothing else. Heroin sure easilly overpowers it but it certainly adds to The euphofiria.

Yeah thankfully I never went the IV route with buproprion. Just intranasal. And even then the effects were awful. With how caustic that shit is on the nose, I couldn't imagine what it would do to veins.

IV ritalin is definitely euphoric. I agree. I'd say it's incredibly similar to coke, only a little longer lasting. Or at least was until I gained a meth habit.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) I only ever tried ritalin the oral route with opioids (usually on the come down) and that seems to be when I would experience blunted effects.