Health any schizophrenics have exp. with DMT?

[B240C]

yaesutom: for the record, i am not anti-psychedelics. Its just that they are very powerful drugs, ones that can trigger psychotic episodes in people with a predisposition to these disorders. I'm against complete amateurs administering extremely experimental drugs outside of a professional healthcare facility on someone with a known mental condition. Its great that it worked out, it really is, that doesn;t mean it wasn't an insanely stupid thing to do.

honestly how much worse do you think it can get? im pretty sure schizophrenia is as bad as it gets (or more like damn near close)..

psychs seem like a very viable last ditch effort to me

 

[Creakle]

haha.... i seriously doiubt that 'schizophrenia' is 'as bad as it gets'

 

[elemenohpee]

He's currently on an anti-psychotic, geodon/ziprasidone. Overall he's doing great, I asked him about the voices in his head, its mostly just around white noise and not that often anymore. He told me tonight occasionally he'll see a rat or something run across the room that isn't there (also said he thinks the rat thing might be because during the meth binge he lived in a place with a rat problem).

It could probably be a lot worse than this. I'll let you use your imagination.

 

[elemenohpee]

keep in mind that one of the major risks associated with psychedelics is that it could uncover a latent psychological condition

 

[chivy]

I have read several places that some true schizophrenics have elevated levels of DMT in thier brains anyways, so putting more in there could be a problem.

Meth creates paranoia anyways so his may just be meth induced.

 

[Xorkoth]

nife:

obviously god could be anything to anybody. I don;t think that's the issue here. Usually the word god brings with it connotations of the creator, omnipotence, etc.(at least in monotheistic traditions) Even in other religions god is usally seen as divine, is worshipped, etc. So it is quite silly for a human being to think that they are in fact god. The fact that people with mental conditions often think they are god points to the belief being just that, a delusion. So please, spare us the self-righteousness.

Listen, the direct point here is that you have no right to tell others what to believe about god. Your point is entirely biased towards a monotheistic concept of god, and Nife's point is that how can anyone know if this is actually the case? Whether or not that's true is not for you or anyone else to decide. I believe what Mr. Nife is referring to is the idea that "god" is not that kind of a thing at all, but rather it is the collective universe in its entirely. Perhaps a better word is the godhead. In saying that we are god, that doesn't mean, "Hey guys, I, personally, am the almighty god who sits on high and judges you". That would, in fact, be quite silly as you pointed out. It just means that each of us is in fact a direct part of this universal godhead, given a body with a brain in order to be able to have unique experience. Is this true? I think so. But I sure don't know, and neither do you.

So please, spare us your self-righteousness. In what way was what you said any different at all from what Nife said?

 

[elemenohpee]

In saying that we are god, that doesn't mean, "Hey guys, I, personally, am the almighty god who sits on high and judges you". That would, in fact, be quite silly as you pointed out.

But this is what schizophrenics believe when they claim to be god. If they rationally explained that they subscribe to a buddhist philosophy, and they believe everyone is a part of "god," then that wouldn't be considered a delusion. There are all types of delusions a schizophrenic can have, from delusions of grandeur, extreme paranoia, to believing they are god. That's just what they are, delusions.

So please, spare us your self-righteousness. In what way was what you said any different at all from what Nife said?

I just felt that nife was making a mountain out of a molehill. I don;t think many people would disagree with subdefy's conclusion that schizophrenics claiming they are god is a delusion. It just struck me as an unnecessary complication of the issue.

 

[Xorkoth]

Well, okay, then I misunderstood your intentions. Sorry! I would agree with you that people thinking they are the Christian (or similar) Almighty God on High is pretty delusional. But the definition of god is malleable, and it seems that in this discussion there are an awful lot of people arguing semantics.

 

[gloggawogga]

So it is quite silly for a human being to think that they are in fact god.

Ever been to India? Many over there would think its quite silly to believe you aren't god. Are they all silly over there? Or is it cultural bias and linguistic delusion that are silly?

But this is what schizophrenics believe when they claim to be god. If they rationally explained that they subscribe to a buddhist philosophy, and they believe everyone is a part of "god," then that wouldn't be considered a delusion.

Sure. But how many people, upon hearing a schizophrenics claim that he's god, actually go thru the trouble of asking the schizophrenic for a rational explaination before just simply judging him to be delusional?

 

[B240C]

haha.... i seriously doiubt that 'schizophrenia' is 'as bad as it gets'

i dont get it..are you trying to make fun of my spelling or something? i seriously 'doiubt' it..

 

[B240C]

keep in mind that one of the major risks associated with psychedelics is that it could uncover a latent psychological condition

but if its already uncovered how much worse can it make that condition?

 

[nife]

First of all, I should apologize for blowing up like I did. I realize that I could've made my point without being so brash. My post may have sounded "self-righteous," but that is where my apologies end. Why? Because I was promoting religeous acceptance and tolerance. There's no point in arguing for or against any specific belief system. It is an infinitely revolving debate with absolutely no possible solution. The universal fact that nobody knows anything should, theoretically, be enough to smash this eternal controversy into oblivion. We all know, however, that nothing is further from the truth.

My point? Well, if you couldn't gather it from my first post in this thread, I'll spell it out for you in very, very simple terms. You and I have no right to pretend that we know anything universal, regarding religion. You can know, for a fact, that you believe God is this, or that, but you cannot know that what someone else believes about God is false. Maybe that "delusional" schizophrenic IS God. Maybe Paul Reubens is God. Maybe that old tree in your backyard is God. Maybe God is everything, and maybe God is nothing. I wouldn't tell anyone that what they sincerely believe in their heart and soul is wrong, so why would any of you go out of your way to deeply insult someone by doing that very thing? It is beyond me.

Doesn't it bother any of you that a many, many people actively denounce and fight against the safe use of psychedelics? In principle, it is the same thing. It would be fine if anti-drug supporters had their opinion, and we had ours, and it ended there. But it isn't all fine and dandy because, you guessed it, they claim that they know, and that their version is right, and so on and so forth. Obviosly, we're all aware of the massive problem this creates.

I'm getting off track. Believe whatever you want. Worship whatever you want. All I ask is that you don't step on the toes of others while doing so.

 

[sillycybe]

haha.... i seriously doiubt that 'schizophrenia' is 'as bad as it gets'

Do you actually know a person/persons with a psychotic illness. Yeah, it might not seem that bad from day to day, but when a person has an "episode" it is fuckin hell on earth for the individual involved and the people close to them. If profesional help isnt sought quickly, the situation degrades rapidly. Now, that said, every person that i have met with psychological condition has different symptoms from the next. There is however one similarity between them all, When it starts to get bad, it gets really really bad.
The visual hallucinations seem so real, and therefore become the new reality. This in conjunction with the auditory hallucinations(That are generally negative), I am told, are so real that the effects of any drug cannot compare and i know a person with the said affliction that has smoked DMT.
She seemed a little let down by the DMT. She said the trip was intense but nice, but nothing in comparison to the visual and auditory hallucinations she has had whilst conscious and walking.
Anyway Creakle, why dont you go to the closest Psych ward, meet someone, and spend an hour or so talking to them about how bad it gets. Then you may realise that you dont have a fuckin clue what you are talking about.

 

[subdefy]

Ever been to India? Many over there would think its quite silly to believe you aren't god. Are they all silly over there? Or is it cultural bias and linguistic delusion that are silly?

Nope, I think India has alot of "silly" ideas that they like to say is the "true" science like "Vedic science."

 

[Toltec]

It works for them ^ Subdefly.

 

[subdefy]

^ I suppose.......btw: it's subdefy

 

[gloggawogga]

Nope, I think India has alot of "silly" ideas

So basically you think your culture is better than some other culture? Right? I mean if someone understands 'god' in the way people in India do, you call them "silly", but if one understands 'god' in the way Christians do its OK. Right?

I really don't see what your coming into this thread and calling someone's religion "silly" is contributing to this thread. I also don't see the need to have you impose your cultural norms on the rest of us, even if its the norm for the majority of the poeple who post here. This is an international forum.

that they like to say is the "true" science like "Vedic science."

You don't have any psuedosceinces in the West? So?

 

[elemenohpee]

Sure. But how many people, upon hearing a schizophrenics claim that he's god, actually go thru the trouble of asking the schizophrenic for a rational explaination before just simply judging him to be delusional?

Are you trying to convince me that all schizos are merely buddhists who don't know how to explain themselves properly? This isn't the issue here.

but if its already uncovered how much worse can it make that condition?

It was mild, not full blown hallucinations that the person had.

 

[gloggawogga]

Are you trying to convince me that all schizos are merely buddhists who don't know how to explain themselves properly?

I suggested no such thing. I merely suggested you inquire about something someone says before you judge them or 'diagnose' them for it.

 

[elemenohpee]

Are you suggesting that any appreciable amount of them are? B/c if not, I don;t really know what you're getting at. Would you agree with this statement, that the majority of the schizophrenics who claim to be god, aren't talking about being a part of brahman?