Any drugs that increase REM fraction of sleep?

[jeof0411]

This is purely speculation on my part because I haven't done any sort of testing (and I think someone else already mentioned it as a possibility) but GHB or GBL seem to have something like the effect you are looking for.

I can't be sure that I actually experienced a larger percentage of REM sleep, but I used to do to quite a bit of this stuff during my younger poly-drug days. It ran a good chance of actually knocking you out even if that's not what you intended... and when this happened I noticed that I would only sleep for about 1.5-4 hours, but when I woke up I would feel fully rested and refreshed (albeit with a slight stomach ache at times.)

This was not uncommon even when I had already been awake for 48-72 hours on x, meth, and assorted other drugs. Normally, I needed like 10-12 hours of sleep minimum when I crashed, but if I fell out after having done a little too much G I would often wake in 2 hours and feel like I had just slept all night, with little or no groggy side effects.

The only thing that might suggest I wasn't in REM sleep is that I don't usually remember dreaming at all during this period, but friends often commented that I seemed as if I was dreaming due to periods of mumbling and eye movement... I can't verify as I was obviously unconcious Then again GHB is know to affect your memory so it may be that I was dreaming and just unable to remember it.

 

[Chuff]

Melatonin

I expect the slight results were got on people with healthy sleep patterns to begin with, I would expect that with any subjects with disturbed sleep patterns (drug users innit ) that you might get better results, espically given that natural melatonin production is dependant on sleeping during the hours of darkness.

see Time of day alters long-term sensitization to cocaine in rats, evan P Sleipness (cool name eh) Brain Resaerch 1605 (2005) 132-137 hosted on science direct.


I would really love to see a double blind study on drug users in detox with melatonin administration. Or be able to offer it to clints seeking treatment here in the UK.

 

[phase_dancer]

^ I have given vulgaris dreaming pillows to 2 women aged 33 and 42, both who claimed they had never dreamed since childhood. Neither take sleeping pills nor smoke cannabis.

Their dreams on mugwort were described as profound in both cases. So much so that neither were initially game to repeat the exercise.

 

[jasoncrest]

3 meds gives me crazy dreams, that I often remember, sometimes I know I'm in a dream, and I can do anything I want, like jumping from the top of a building: i know I'm in a dream, no pronlem...

These 2 drugs are
-Zolpidem (Ambien, Stilnox)
-Doxylamine Succinate (it's an anticholinergic antihistamine, but its effects are closer to Zolpidem than to Diphenhydramine...)
-Melatonin

 

[DexterMeth]

over the counter Melatonin suppliments suck as compared to the new prescription melatonin drug..Rozemem.
I've tried it for the last few days of starting a new job, after my latest DOC trip..and it may not increase the length of REM sleep, but definately the "potency" and "quality" or your REM sleep.

oh, and seroquel will hands up give you the most insaine dreams, but after time it sucks cause the line between dreams and real life kinda get muddled. :D

 

[BilZ0r]

^ Rozemem??? google turns up 2 hits with that... sure you're spet it right?

 

[LoveDuck]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned chloral hydrate. I'm sure I've seen its metabolite trichloro-ethanol referred to as "the only sedative that doesn't disturb REM states". Anyone got any info?

 

[BilZ0r]

^ I doubt it, seeing as it's can act as an anaethetic. Shit's a potents GABA modulator.

 

[Tokey-tokerson]

^ Rozemem??? google turns up 2 hits with that... sure you're spet it right?

Rozerem. Its a m1 m2 receptor agonist in the pineal gland. It really does seem to be FAR superior to melatonin and my memory seems improved.

 

[Sleepy_Slumber]

Similarly, are there any drugs which promote slow wave (stage 3 & 4) sleep? I'm not referring to things like zolpidem, which allow you to get to sleep faster whilst leaving stage 3 & 4 relatively untouched. I'm talking about increasing the total sleep fraction.

Is it correct that increasing the time spent in SWS leaves you more rested?

 

[BilZ0r]

^ Maybe, maybe not.

Rozerem, I think thats called Ramelteon (which always makes me think of Cameltoe). Check it out:

Sleep Med. 2006 Jan;7(1):17-24. Epub 2005 Nov 23.
An efficacy, safety, and dose-response study of Ramelteon in patients with chronic primary insomnia.

Erman M, Seiden D, Zammit G, Sainati S, Zhang J.

Pacific Sleep Medicine Services, 10052 Mesa Ridge Court, Suite 100, San Diego, CA 92121, USA.

BACKGROUND AND PURPOSE: To evaluate the efficacy, safety, and dose response of Ramelteon, a novel highly selective MT(1)/MT(2) receptor agonist, in patients with chronic primary insomnia. PATIENTS AND METHODS: A randomized, multicenter, double-blind, placebo-controlled, five-period crossover study design was performed. A total of 107 patients, aged 18-64 years, were randomized into a dosing sequence that included 4, 8, 16, and 32mg of ramelteon and placebo. Patients received all five treatments, with a 5- to 12-day washout period between treatments, and served as their own controls. Medication was administered 30min before habitual bedtime and polysomnographic monitoring. Next-day residual effects were assessed with two visual analog scales (mood and feeling), digit symbol substitution test (DSST), word-list memory tests (immediate recall and delayed recall), and a post-sleep questionnaire that ascertained patients' alertness and ability to concentrate. RESULTS: All tested doses of ramelteon resulted in statistically significant reductions in latency to persistent sleep (LPS) and increases in total sleep time (TST). No next-day residual effects were apparent at any dose, as compared with placebo. There were no differences in the number or type of adverse events between any active treatment and placebo group. The most commonly reported adverse events were headache, somnolence, and sore throat. CONCLUSIONS: Ramelteon demonstrated a statistically significant reduction in LPS and a statistically significant increase in TST, with no apparent next-day residual effects, in patients with chronic primary insomnia.

 

[Tokey-tokerson]

Yep its a great drug.

 

[bipolair]

I've been worried about this too. I just read an article on SSRIs on how normal dreams are REM + forebrain activity simultaneously, but on SSRIs, you will have periods of just forebrain, and then periods of REM sleep with no forebrain activity (normal dreams were REM + forebrain, or some such).

I'd have to find the article, because I probably mangled the summary.

Anyway this worried me, and could be partly why SSRI users are so tired/sluggish/distracted all the time?

Hmm interesting, doesn't that theoritically mean that lucid dreaming would be archieved easier?

Assuming that the forebrain are causing the dreams.


Ow and why do I find it strange that only 1 person came up with gbl-ghb?

 

[BilZ0r]

Well the effects of GHB on sleep aren't that well studied, there are only a couple of recent papers... still, it is interesting.

 

[INFaMaS]

People previously mentioned that CNS depressants, ie. opiates, benzos, alcohol supress REM sleep. While this is true, no one mentioned the "REM Rebound" effect that results from these substances. Since your body is denied its share of REM sleep while under the influence, later in the night when you are no longer intoxicated, it will "make up" for the previously lost REM sleep. This makes for many vivid, long dreams, especially since the best REM periods are the couple before waking up in the morning. Great stuff, try it out

 

[qwe]

something i am going to try some time... wake up an hour earlier than normal, take a smart drug (cholinergic agonist), go back to sleep. ill report back

 

[Splatt]

Remeron works for me.

 

[MostHated]

18mg melatonin (6 3mg pills) taken with 900mg vitamin b-6

a more harder to get REM enhancer would be amitryptilyne....i may have spelled that wrong but i took 1 pill of it once and hit REM within about 5 minutes....how do i know it was within 5 minutes? because i was on sleep/napping for 15 minutes.....it'll make you have crazy dreams though.....nice and vivid.....it'll induce nightmares about 60% of the time

you can induce nicely vivid dreams without drugs though simply by telling your self ( "i will recognize i am dreaming when i am dreaming" ) a couple times before sleep for a week or two.....this will allow you to have a sense of conciousness while sleep and actually be able to change the scene in your dream...and make things happen in your dream that you want to happen.....this leads to constant lucid dreams which with practice will lead to astral dreaming /projection.....i've been doing it the past 4 months or so.......type in your search engine astral or lucid dreaming cause i have a good feeling your after a good dream expirence and not just hitting REM faster once you look up lucid and astral dreaming you'll learn the techniques .....and you'll thank me for opening you up to it.....there are also astral projection forums

 

[BilZ0r]

The evidence is that amitryptiline doesn't change, or decreases REM sleep [1, 2].

 

[dubmachine]

my limited experience: trazadone and risperdal. risperdal is crazy...