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Any drugs that increase REM fraction of sleep?

Pretty fresh research shows instant release oral melatonin has a bit short half life to be effective.

Sustained release formulations are available however. I'm currently prescribed such a formulation. 2mg tab swallowed after food, 1-2hrs before going to bed. Peak occurs at ~3hrs with food, ~0.75 while fasting. Practically completely excreted in 12hrs.

Non-pharm SR ones are available too. Dose-response curve is upside-down shaped U. Don't go above the common 3mg tab, higher doses might actually worsen effect. While there have been cases (clinical, documented) where 0.3 seemed to work better than 3.0mg (you probably wanna sit on the fence).


MY RECOMMENDATION:

Get a sustained release formulation of =<3mg, take after food, 1-2hrs before bedtime (don't redose in the middle of the night, the whole point of this experiment is to normalize your circadian rhythm). Keep up for at least three weeks --> evaluate.

Good luck.
 
Just anecdotal: 5-Htp seems to promote dreaming for me, and I had passionflower/blue lotus tea last night before going to sleep and had an epic voyage of a dream that seemed to last years. Woke up feeling refreshed and invigorated.
 
Zaleplon (300mg) and Quetiapine (900mg), possibly combined. With a combination of the two I dream like crazy and often wake up from dreams. Zaleplon is know to be the only benzodiazepine-like drug that doesn't disturb the natural sleep architechture.
 
this is a funny thread. using a combination of things I seemed to prolong my rem cycles at night when I was very focused on lucid dream induction and dream recall. its difficult to tell how long you are in a rem cycle if you dont have the proper scientific equiptment, but to 'feel' or 'remember' more of my rem sleep periods and dreams I did a few things.

I took dosages of melatonin between 1 mg and 9 mg about 1 hour before sleeping. Then I went to bed and did a sort of breathing mediation for the minutes before I fell into a light sleep, always focusing on my intention to awaken in my dreams.

I dont know if that will help you but its very basic and works well if you want to try and do a bit more research there are a lot of resources on the interweb on sleep sciences.

Its more difficult to remember rem periods if you smoke ganja alot.
 
How important is REM sleep actually? If i'm correct the MAOI nardil completely supresses REM sleep, so i doubt that its as important as claimed.
 
MeDieViL said:
How important is REM sleep actually? If i'm correct the MAOI nardil completely supresses REM sleep, so i doubt that its as important as claimed.
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I didn't miss my REM sleep/dreams at all for a quite long time - but usually after 1-2 years of taking Clomipramine (which almost completely blocks my REM sleep) without any breaks - my concentration and creativity seems to get significantly worse.

But really terrible it becomes if I leave out a single retarded 75mg dose before going to sleep - since that usually ends up in terrifying nightmares which often scare me so much that I don't like to fail asleep again...
 
MostHated said:
18mg melatonin (6 3mg pills) taken with 900mg vitamin b-6
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That's a toxic dose of pyridoxine. And I'm guessing you'd find that a lower dose of melatonin works just as well or better.

me2beail.com said:
There are only a few medications that I know to increase rem sleep. Serzone, aricept and maybe one other anticholergenic. Remeron increases slow wave 3 and 4 but decreases REM. Some studies have show melatonin to increase rem sleep by 3 minutes a night. The danger caused by melatonin use does not outweigh the 3 minute benefit.

Most importantly, melatonin is a hormone. The effect of taking any hormone is to reduce the gland's own output of it. Taking a hormone can become a downward spiral of the gland, which was unable to produce the hormone, and now becomes even less able to produce it. One animal study found that the effects of chronic(i.e everyday, ongoing, long term) melatonin treatment are similar to those of removing the pineal gland.(93

http://www.customhps.com/Pres_Foc_Pineal.htm

I do not mean to come off wrong, but you really should do your research before giving advice that may screw someone up.

There is a new drug being studied, I believe in Europe, that will be released in 2010, which increases slow wave and rem sleep significantly. I anxiously look forward to a successful pass by the FDA. However, I suspect that they will find some reason to fail it.

You gu
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Downregulation due to negative feedback is not an issue with melatonin.

Anyone knowing what rhythm (as in circadian rhythm) means will understand that time and consistency of dosing is vital.

Used correctly sustained release formulations of melatonin are grossly underrated.

At least when quality and rhythm of sleep is the main issue, it should be first line, in my opinion.


Holy_cow said:
Zaleplon (300mg) and Quetiapine (900mg), possibly combined. With a combination of the two I dream like crazy and often wake up from dreams. Zaleplon is know to be the only benzodiazepine-like drug that doesn't disturb the natural sleep architechture.
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Zaleplon has a very short half-life, the shortest among the Z's. Therefore it mainly helps with inducing sleep, not maintaining it (nor suppressing REM). So if you need a fairly powerful inducer while at the same time having trouble with diminished quality, Zaleplon might be a good idea.

MeDieViL said:
How important is REM sleep actually? If i'm correct the MAOI nardil completely supresses REM sleep, so i doubt that its as important as claimed.
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It's a necessity.
 
Agomelatine

Novel antidepressant acting on MT1+MT2, it's also an antagonist at 5-HT2C (and as such disinhibits NE and DA release).

Improves sleep architecture, at least partly due to melatonergic action.

Might have been referenced in one way or another already.

Anyway; deserves more attention.
 
phase_dancer said:
Mugwort (even in a dream pillow) will promote REM sleep. Optimum season for picking is considered to be mid-late summer.
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I tested this for myself many years ago and it does indeed have powerful effects, caused many lucid dreams during my experiments with it, especially when combined with wormwood and/or cannabis, though it isn't suitable if requiring daily use as the body becomes tolerant swiftly, requiring some days absence for it to work as effectively.
 
It's worth remembering that something that gives you vivid/lucid dreams, or dreams you tend to remember - doesn't necessarily increase the REM fraction of your sleep.
 
Seroquel. I have crazy, vivid dreams that I always remember and wake up refreshed the next morning.
 
Any drugs that increase REM fraction of sleep?
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Just about any cholinergic, from nicotine to nerve gas to Aricept.

It's a necessity.
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With millions of people chronically ingesting fully or near-fully REM-suppressing antidepressants and antimuscarinic drugs per year [and counting] it's clearly not.
 
Remeron/mirtazapine works very well for increasing dream recall, and vividness of dreams. (Great for putting you to sleep also.) I occasionally use melatonin along with it to boost my dream `length`, vividness and recall.

As my drug use decreases I increasingly look to lucid dreaming for my `alternate reality` kicks. Like most things worthwhile, lucid dreaming takes dedication and persistence. But well worth it.

Smoking weed was horrible for destroying REM sleep/dreaming/recall. Too much alcohol also.

Great thread. Bring on the REM wonder-drug, I say!
 
P A said:
With millions of people chronically ingesting fully or near-fully REM-suppressing antidepressants and antimuscarinic drugs per year [and counting] it's clearly not.
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The role of REM-sleep is not fully elucidated, but I think we can agree suppressing it is unhealthy.

REM-sleep will be more or less suppressed by those drugs, for a limited time.

Millions of people use stimulants to suppress sleep altogether. If sleep was suppressed completely and indefinitely it would end in death. The fact that not every stimulant user is dead proves that complete REM-suppression may be as bad as deadly in the long run.
 
^Mirtazapine is definatly more sedative at lower dosages.

Sorry I not advanced just speaking from my experience.

I just know I had some pretty scary shit dreams frequently. I found them quite pleasant.

I hate this drug tho and am no longer taking it, but not for that side effect.:)
 
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