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Any Atheists here?

Aye - It also makes millions of people feel scared, alone and in some cases - wrong in gods eyes.

Check out this youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ctWj-OV4cI0

This was their latest one, they come out monthly. Harm is being caused by religion ALL the time.

"Like countries like the USA"

Creationism is being taught in your schools. Gays are being targeted. Abortion rights is constantly under attack. In many states - Coming out as an atheist is social suicide, not just from friends and the communiy, but from family as well.

Religion is the cause people are still being burnt for being witches. Why something like 40000 children are being held prisoner by african churches. It's why so many priests can abuse little children and why so much of it is covered up - going all the way up to the Vatican. It's why children are dying when their parents ignore doctors and rely on God to cure them. Why rape victims are seen as guilty parties. Why rape victims (as young as 11) are not allowed to abort the child they are now pregnant with. Religion is a reason why 50% of populations (female) are seen as lesser beings.

I'll stop there but i could go on all day.
 
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^Religion is not "why" priests abuse children. Religion is not why. People are why. Stupid people can be atheists too, Jesus.

despite Christianity being imperfect, a lot of outreach programs/charities started/are under it's umbrella, and they don't always do it to promote their faith.

What sounds like it goes more together, not that it is exclusive... A Soup Kitchen for the homeless started by an "atheist organization", or a soup kitchen for the homeless started by a church? (Etc, Go fuck yourself)... A 'house" for battered and abused women and children? Started by a church? Or started by an... "Atheist Organization"?

even if now there are ones that are not from Christian organization, some of the earliest were.

Back in the day, where could people be safe? The church... It provided refuge, and organization. Even if stuff gets messed up as it does, it provided organization. It was, at least was, needed. If it didn't exist something else like it would have, and it probably would have had the plus sign as well.

The church has been a backbone to civilization, or the backbone has manifested greatly through it in times, even if "uncivilized people", and their caged animal urges, are still with it.

Mind you the place the spread of Christianity has with you even writing these words here. It may have happened at some time or another, but the first book to be printed was the Bible. I've said it before, but I think that means something.

More harm than good, well.. it's really a matter of perspective. I could agree. I could also say that agriculture has done more harm than good. Easily. Probably more easily than I could say Christianity has.

No matter what, it was and is still an organizing power, and we have at least at some points needed it, and again, you owe your ability to write to them, in a sense. You owe your names, John, Mary, Joseph... Thomas... Not that it really matters. Everything just fills a niche.
 
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No it isn't why. But it puts them in an unwarranted position of trust and power. It gives them backup and support of millions of pounds or dollars or whatever and a group of powerful people that will hide this and do whatever they can to stop anyone finding out.

You're right, a lot of schools and hospitals etc were started by churches. In a day where the church pretty much ran the world and every man and his dog was religious, it's hardly surprising. Now lets consider the wars and genocide which were also religiously motivated?

The church may have had a massive part to play in society, but was it really a good one? What if it was never there, would things be better or worse? People don't learn morals from ancient texts. If they say they needed God to be good, then are they really good? Morals are a natural and necessary part of human behaviour.

And are you really saying we wouldn't have names or even need those names as mentioned in the bible? Umm, I'm pretty sure religion didn't invent names.

And i disagree. It was never needed. It was just used.
 
Tromps said:
May I ask, why do a number of atheists commonly say "Oh My God" or "Jesus Christ" when startled, etc?
Click to expand...

These phrases have been removed of their religious origins in the modern lexicon, they're just ordinary norms that we don't even think about. Like when people say "bless you" after you sneeze. How many of those people are actually performing a religious ceremony after anyone sneezes?
 
Tromps said:
May I ask, why do a number of atheists commonly say "Oh My God" or "Jesus Christ" when startled, etc?
Click to expand...
Bardeaux said:
These phrases have been removed of their religious origins in the modern lexicon, they're just ordinary norms that we don't even think about. Like when people say "bless you" after you sneeze. How many of those people are actually performing a religious ceremony after anyone sneezes?
Click to expand...

Lol saying "bless you" isn't a 'religious ceremony.' It's implied "[God] bless you," because when someones sneezes people would think they were sick and say God bless you.

Why steal these phrases and remove their 'religious origins?' I'm sure atheists can be more creative and come up with their own phrases ;)
 
Tromps said:
Lol saying "bless you" isn't a 'religious ceremony.' It's implied "[God] bless you," because when someones sneezes people would think they were sick and say God bless you.

Why steal these phrases and remove their 'religious origins?' I'm sure atheists can be more creative and come up with their own phrases ;)
Click to expand...

But who is literally asking the creator to bless someone who sneezes? Its a linguistic reflex because it is a cultural norm to say. Just as I might say "damn it" if I stub my toe on my desk, however I'm not literally asking god to damn my desk to eternal hellfire at the center of the world :P

There are non-religious examples of this as well. Language develops over many centuries and a lot of the time, words and phrases are somewhat different or entirely divorced from their original, literal meanings.
 
Bardeaux said:
But who is literally asking the creator to bless someone who sneezes? Its a linguistic reflex because it is a cultural norm to say. Just as I might say "damn it" if I stub my toe on my desk, however I'm not literally asking god to damn my desk to eternal hellfire at the center of the world :P
Click to expand...

Is it really a reflex? I mean you first consciously acknowledge that a person in your vicinity has sneezed before making a decision to say something depending on the context. For example, if you were in a military parade you wouldn't fall out of line to say bless you to someone in the audience who had just sneezed. With the same example, if you were marching along and unexpectedly stepped on a bear trap it would take a real effort to stifle a string of expletives trying to explode out your mouth.

Just because we choose to autopilot certain gestures doesn't mean they are a reflex. I usually autopilot at a store checkout and will end with "thanks, you too" even if the cashier's final words are "the cats bray at midnight" because I'm expecting a "have a nice day" so powerfully that my mind will completely tune out that part until five minutes later when I'm in the parking lot wondering why the hell I said that. Note to anyone working retail: ending a transaction with complete nonsense is an excellent way to fuck with your customers.
 
thujone said:
Just because we choose to autopilot certain gestures doesn't mean they are a reflex. I usually autopilot at a store checkout and will end with "thanks, you too" even if the cashier's final words are "the cats bray at midnight" because I'm expecting a "have a nice day" so powerfully that my mind will completely tune out that part until five minutes later when I'm in the parking lot wondering why the hell I said that. Note to anyone working retail: ending a transaction with complete nonsense is an excellent way to fuck with your customers.
Click to expand...

Haha, thanks for the laugh, too bad I don't work as a cashier or I would be doing that everyday! =D

I could always reverse it and say something like that to a cashier and see if they automatically say 'thanks you too.' Next time I'm at the gas station I'm sneaking in a "the cats bray at midnight" before he/she gets a chance to speak :p

On topic: Just remember atheists, Jesus loves you ! <3
 
naughtynicknails said:
Aye - It also makes millions of people feel scared, alone and in some cases - wrong in gods eyes.

Check out this youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ctWj-OV4cI0

This was their latest one, they come out monthly. Harm is being caused by religion ALL the time.

"Like countries like the USA"

Creationism is being taught in your schools. Gays are being targeted. Abortion rights is constantly under attack. In many states - Coming out as an atheist is social suicide, not just from friends and the communiy, but from family as well.

Religion is the cause people are still being burnt for being witches. Why something like 40000 children are being held prisoner by african churches. It's why so many priests can abuse little children and why so much of it is covered up - going all the way up to the Vatican. It's why children are dying when their parents ignore doctors and rely on God to cure them. Why rape victims are seen as guilty parties. Why rape victims (as young as 11) are not allowed to abort the child they are now pregnant with. Religion is a reason why 50% of populations (female) are seen as lesser beings.

I'll stop there but i could go on all day.
Click to expand...

i'm not a believer..but come on..ugh..this lack of responsibility
drives me insane.
religion can't cause anything. it's nothing but ideas.
horrible people are the cause of evil. not religion.
 
thujone said:
Is it really a reflex? I mean you first consciously acknowledge that a person in your vicinity has sneezed before making a decision to say something depending on the context. For example, if you were in a military parade you wouldn't fall out of line to say bless you to someone in the audience who had just sneezed. With the same example, if you were marching along and unexpectedly stepped on a bear trap it would take a real effort to stifle a string of expletives trying to explode out your mouth.

Just because we choose to autopilot certain gestures doesn't mean they are a reflex. I usually autopilot at a store checkout and will end with "thanks, you too" even if the cashier's final words are "the cats bray at midnight" because I'm expecting a "have a nice day" so powerfully that my mind will completely tune out that part until five minutes later when I'm in the parking lot wondering why the hell I said that. Note to anyone working retail: ending a transaction with complete nonsense is an excellent way to fuck with your customers.
Click to expand...



 
tokenname said:
i'm not a believer..but come on..ugh..this lack of responsibility
drives me insane.
religion can't cause anything. it's nothing but ideas.
horrible people are the cause of evil. not religion.
Click to expand...

Ideas, or rules to live by?

Religion is a tool. Imo, it's mostly used for evil.

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."

And when you consider that the Koran is considered, by Muslims, to be the literal word of God which they must obey.. Well.. Is that evil people oppressing women or ignorant people following rules set by religion?
 
rickolasnice said:
Ideas, or rules to live by?

Religion is a tool. Imo, it's mostly used for evil.

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."

And when you consider that the Koran is considered, by Muslims, to be the literal word of God which they must obey.. Well.. Is that evil people oppressing women or ignorant people following rules set by religion?
Click to expand...

the point being..the ideas contained in whatever religious text is being read..
must be considered and interpreted to be rules which must be followed.
it's all choice
human intelligence requires thoughts to process before belief or faith or trust is placed,
and any action (which isn't entirely instinctual) be taken.
any tool can be used to build or destroy.
my point is only that it is used.
religion is benign unless chosen to be used or actionable by a human..
and that is where responsibility should be placed..on the human choice.
 
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tokenname said:
human intelligence requires thoughts to process before belief or faith or trust is placed,
Click to expand...

If only that were true.

Can the same be said about people that have been indoctrinated from birth to believe the bible or koran as true?
 
^i say it having been one of those people. yes.^
at some point we choose to think for ourselves or, unfortunately all too common, choose not to.
 
Just read your edited text.

Aye nobody is denying it is a tool. It's just a tool that is used, imo, mostly for evil.

Whether that be giving someone the wrong advice / impression, the ability for someone to behave a certain way without guilt or consequence, etc etc (I've explained already)

So what of creationism being taught in schools? Would people still believe in creationism without religion? Nope. (well maybe, but nowhere near as many) Would it be being taught in american schools? Fuck no. Of course not. It's dumb. What about anti-abortion nuts? Would they still exist? Sure, probably, but there'd be a shit load less than there are now, nowhere near enough to even spark a debate, which contradicts science, in politics. Would there be as many nuts willing to die if not for their belief in an eternal afterlife of bliss for acting as their god wanted? Would there be as many women who accept being a lesser being if not for their beliefs? Etc etc etc..

I'd like to point out my beef is with organised religion, not ideas.
 
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absolutely. people needed to believe in something bigger than themselves,
and a purpose beyond this fucking life, long before any structured schooling began.
they'd find something else dumb to teach, dear.
of course, there'd be just as many nuts willing to die for some other purpose which allowed them meaning..
there's a reason there are more than 42,000 religions world-wide.
as long as life's a bitch, humans will need something else to put their trust into.
 
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