Anxiety and Ecstasy

[waketheeffup]

I've only done coke once, and about 3 days later I had the worst panic attack I've ever had (aside from one bad shroom trip) and fainted.

yeah dude - its happened a few times and ever since the night where i dosed WAYYYYY too high, (we did line after line from noon until about 6am, where multiple trips back to the dealers house by me at high speeds all hours of the night happened, terrible idea, lucky im not dead/arrested)

i went to the hospital the next day with chest pains and was told things were fine. every time ive tried to touch the drug since then I've been thrust back into that paranoia

i think once you attribute a drug to panic then you will find your likelyhood of panicking a lot higher

with all that said

chitown is right, you dont want to substitute and start regularly taking a medication to alleviate symptoms UNLESS ITS LIFE OR DEATH because then whatll happen is you'll be posting in the "other drugs" forum about how you had a grand mal seizure from stopping benzos

 

[augustaB]

In 1967 I freaked out after taking LSD and smoking a great many joints.
Post freakout I was unable to enjoy cannabis because it would put me back in the freakout state.
So basically I stopped using cannabis.
I eventually recovered sufficiently to be able to marry, have kids and a career.
I am now 65, but I can still not smoke cannabis.
Fortunately a few years ago I discovered ecstasy and made the discovery that I can smoke cannabis on the comedown without any nasty consequences.
Maybe I'll get back to normal before I die.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Augustab -
I am very surprised to hear you can handle MDMA, but not cannabis!
I always assumed that the reason cannabis was impossible to enjoy during recovery was due to its serotonin increasing effects...

If you can handle MDMA, which releases FAR greater amounts of serotonin than cannabis, perhaps there is a different explanation...

If I smoke at the wrong time, even after 7 months of recovery, the high is WAY different than ever before. It can induce panic or anxiety, once it seemed to combine with other factors to result in a stroke! I am dead serious.
Of course, I have already determined that re-distribution of blood vessels is going on, so increasing serotonin by smoking could very well speed up the process...

Even when the high is decent, it doesn't hit the brain all at once. I can literally feel the effects of the THC seeping into different regions of my brain over a 20 minute period of time. It is no longer the 'symphony' that it once was - now the notes play when the fuck they want to. Much like other 'visceral' experiences in life, now...

And yes, this seems to be tied directly to my intestines, just like other symptoms. But with the weed, it is not subtle at ALL. I can feel my stomach start flushing and as the rest of the GI comes to life, I can feel parts of my brain being puuuuuuuuullllllled into the high. It is very surreal.

The only other experience that is so defined is orgasm.
My orgasms used to lack ALL sensation. Sex was still great, but the ending was silent. But 10 minutes after, I would feel light-headed with a little euphoria.

Now, it is much more like the 'symphony' that I recall, but there are times when I can definitely tell that parts of my brain experience the serotonin/dopamine flush at delayed intervals. I may feel completely clear-headed within seconds of finishing, but as I stand up to walk - it hits me hard! Slowly, the symphony is growing closer together.

Just though I would share something more personal, and less technical this time.

Thank you, Socal.
Chitown and I seem to be approaching something resembling, dare I say, friendship. And Splinter and Heh both seem to be getting along with me now, as well!

WTF is going on here?
Anyways, thanks for your contribution to the situation.
It appears that all of us aren't so different after all...
We just needed a 'time-out'. :D

Passionate debate, my friends, is usually a very good thing.

 

[chitown rollin]

Haha you're a good guy FBC. Tried to PM you back but your inbox was full. Anyways, I'm sorry.

On another note, I still take MDMA, have twice recently and haven't smoked marijuana either time. I cannot smoke marijuana anymore. It simply makes me too anxious/paranoid. I don't know what the reasoning for this is besides the fact that cannabis promotes thought, and my thoughts tend to be things on my mind. I'm a pretty busy guy so I guess I tend to think about all of the stuff I need to be doing when I smoke marijuana, instead of enjoying the high.

 

[Heh?!]

Augustab -
I am very surprised to hear you can handle MDMA, but not cannabis!
I always assumed that the reason cannabis was impossible to enjoy during recovery was due to its serotonin increasing effects...

If you can handle MDMA, which releases FAR greater amounts of serotonin than cannabis, perhaps there is a different explanation...

If I smoke at the wrong time, even after 7 months of recovery, the high is WAY different than ever before. It can induce panic or anxiety, once it seemed to combine with other factors to result in a stroke! I am dead serious.
Of course, I have already determined that re-distribution of blood vessels is going on, so increasing serotonin by smoking could very well speed up the process...

Even when the high is decent, it doesn't hit the brain all at once. I can literally feel the effects of the THC seeping into different regions of my brain over a 20 minute period of time. It is no longer the 'symphony' that it once was - now the notes play when the fuck they want to. Much like other 'visceral' experiences in life, now...

And yes, this seems to be tied directly to my intestines, just like other symptoms. But with the weed, it is not subtle at ALL. I can feel my stomach start flushing and as the rest of the GI comes to life, I can feel parts of my brain being puuuuuuuuullllllled into the high. It is very surreal.

The only other experience that is so defined is orgasm.
My orgasms used to lack ALL sensation. Sex was still great, but the ending was silent. But 10 minutes after, I would feel light-headed with a little euphoria.

Now, it is much more like the 'symphony' that I recall, but there are times when I can definitely tell that parts of my brain experience the serotonin/dopamine flush at delayed intervals. I may feel completely clear-headed within seconds of finishing, but as I stand up to walk - it hits me hard! Slowly, the symphony is growing closer together.

Just though I would share something more personal, and less technical this time.

Thank you, Socal.
Chitown and I seem to be approaching something resembling, dare I say, friendship. And Splinter and Heh both seem to be getting along with me now, as well!

WTF is going on here?
Anyways, thanks for your contribution to the situation.
It appears that all of us aren't so different after all...
We just needed a 'time-out'. :D

Passionate debate, my friends, is usually a very good thing.

As I said before, I wasn't going to keep it up Was just voicing my opinion on the matter. Debate is one of my favorite past-times.

 

[Thizzle Mountain]

Seriously what somedud said couldn't be more true about the mild PTSD. I''ve only taken a total of 12 pills. This one time I was rolling and smoking weed on my balcony at 3am with some buddies and I heard loud multiple gunshots. My neighbor across from me kept blinking this light at me and while rolling and blazed I went from a good high to extreme panic attack to hell. I knew one of the neighbors there and he was a very sketchy dude who camped outside of their house and mowed their lawn for a living. I seriously was convinced that they were gonna come after me because I witnessed the murder. (All of this was just paranoia, the camper was still there the next day and the gunshots were coming from somewhere else) We ran into the attic in my house sweating balls holding baseball bats ready to die. It was the scariest thing of my life. For 4 months after that I had all of the PTSD symptoms. I was convinced it was brain damage the whole time and was seriously thinking about suicide. Even with vitamins, the issues never fixed itself. I would wake up in sweat every night with hallucinations all around my room. It was rough. I did not think it was because of the incident for a while but then I tried to roll just one last time and I had a good normal light roll off 1 pill. Ever since that roll I've felt 99% back to normal. The roll pretty much made me think about the event and gave me clarity and brought it to my sober life. I now sleep just fine 8 hours a night no problem never waking up either and the suicidal thoughts and anxiety have disappeared. It's weird I have a theory that every time you roll it changes you.

 

[somedud]

Duddddd, that's fucked because the EXACT same thing happened to me, I thought I had crazy brain damage, then I rolled again and my anxiety stoped, my panic attacks seized and my sleeping problems resolved themselves..

Crazy.. MDMA can go very good or very bad

 

[chitown rollin]

Sorry that happened to you, ThizzleMountain. I like your handle name by the way. I've found every time something goes bad when I'm rolling I stay 110% more optimistic than if I wasn't rolling. Usually everything works out in my favor in the end as well. MDMA has a weird way of making you realize everything, regardless of the situation, will work out in the end and that's what I think happens to me.

 

[dreworthedrew]

Thizzin,

Look at all this support.
There are 6, now 7, people telling you that you will make it.
Sure, there is one person telling you to 'go away', ignore that.

How far along are you in the recovery process?
This is among the most important of answers.

The odds are overwhelmingly in your favor that you will experience a 'clinical recovery' around 1-1.5 years. This means that your reported anxiety/depression will go away.

This also correlates with the time-frame for restoration of even blood distribution around the brain. Right now you are likely experiencing profound increases in blood flow to specific brain regions.

Serotonin has an impressive and direct effect upon capillaries. It plays a 'tug-of-war' with blood flow. You have likely severed many axonal extensions from the 5-HT cell bodies. Many will recover, some will not.

It is widely agreed upon as a fact that MDMA causes a 'reorganization of the ascending axonal structure'.

'Ascending' refers to the forward nature of the network. From the brainstem, the 5-HT network branches out towards the face. Right behind your eyes and forehead lies the Prefrontal Cortex. This is the 'highest' emotional center of your 'thinking brain'. It is what makes us human.




Animal research shows that the PFC is clearly vulnerable to damage in the 5-HT network. Human research, such as PET or SPECT scans, backs up this assessment.

The axons in this, the most distant region of the brain, are 'fiber-like'. Not only are they the most likely to be damaged, they are also the least likely to recover.

However, this 'recovery' is assumed to correlate with re-innervation patterns.
Re-innervation is eventually found, but it is not as dense. A gradient has been seen suggesting that the re-innervation that DOES occur, happens in a back-to-front manner. The rear of the PFC has a higher density of SERT axons than the front.

Regardless of this 'raw data', it is difficult to isolate specific cognitive differences among former MDMA users. Eventually sufferers experience a relief from the agony, with only modest cognitive deficits remaining.

A great silver lining seen in the 'raw data' is mentioned above.
Eventually, blood distribution returns to normal.
Despite abnormal re-innervation patterns...

Remember, serotonin has a direct impact upon blood flow.
Without restoration of original axonal densities, how can blood flow ever return to normal?

This is among the many mysteries of the brain, my friend.
Modifications to other neurotransmitter systems are suspected.
Regardless of how it happens, the brain is a highly plastic organ that is capable of 'recovering' from a variety of brain trauma.

It turns out that MDMA induced brain-trauma does NOT involve gliosis, or scar tissue, in the brain. Also, MDMA does not destroy the cell-body in the serotonin network - only axons.

These two factors, among others, may allow the brain to recover more completely than with other types of brain-injury!

That doesn't mean the process isnt horrible, though...

These changes in blood distribution in your brain are a part of the 're-wiring' process. There are thousands of cell-bodies pulsating with serotonin. They are pouring serotonin, which inhibits cellular function, into surrounding brain tissue. Eventually, a new axon and receptor site will appear.

This is an intense and horrible process, but the brain appears capable of handling it. Rarely, former users of MDMA experience stroke or brain infarction, even after months of abstinence. This is a result of this 're-wiring' process.

I do not bring this up to worry you, but simply to illustrate the reality of the 're-wiring' that is happening. Numbness or weakness in the arms or legs, especially on one side of the body, is considered a sign of stroke. There may be radial pain, which travels down the armpit to the palm of the hand. The bottoms of the hands and feet are directly linked to the serotonin network. Loss of speech is considered another classic sign of stroke.

Don't worry, many elderly not only survive strokes, but make good recoveries.
It is always recommended that they begin exercise immediately. Within six months, the majority of patients will exhibit their complete recovery potential.

If you can still move your arms and legs, you are doing fine.
Try to think of these strokes are 'almost-strokes' as necessary.
Remember, your brain is re-distributing capillaries.

The best treatment for 5-HT induced stroke is lowering body temperature. If you experience these symptoms again, apply ice-water to the face, head, and neck using a towel. It will help considerably.

Benzos are a good option, as well.
But taking them regularly would be among the greatest of mistakes you could make right now.

MDMA reduces anxiety during the roll, but only after a period of intense cortisol relief.
In recovering users, anxiety is increased, sometimes dramatically.
Doesn't it make sense that this suffering must take place?

Many former victims will forget how critical this intense period of suffering is.
Time is a great factor, but without intense suffering time is rendered useless.
Not one day of suffering is wasted, believe that.

Recovery is considered protracted.
During the first few months, more receptor sites are recovered than in any subsequent time period. This process slows down significantly, and continues to slow as time passes.

I have seen read many anecdotal reports of people crossing the 6-8 month point and experiencing a major improvement. Many report near-complete recovery around 1 year.

Even if you don't emerge completely within 1 year, there is reason to believe that the brain goes on 're-wiring' itself LONG into the future. This is among the best of hope I can offer you.

Exercise is the only way to cheat this process.
When you exercise, you increase the protein BDNF in the brain, which introduces stem cells into many key regions, including the cortex!
It has also been shown to have a direct impact upon the re-sprouting and plasticity of serotonin neurons!

Working out is the only way to find relief from this.
10 minutes per day will actually make a big difference, especially if you repeat if several days in a row. It speeds up the whole process and it gives you a vacation from your symptoms.

Taking fish oil and tumeric (powerful anti-inflammatory) should help.
Sleeping is critical. But exercise trumps all.

You are going to be ok, but it is going to take a LONG time.
The worst is the first 3-4 months.
By 6 months, you should feel MUCH better, maybe even helping others.
By 1 year, you will look back at this - because it will be behind you.

When that happens, come back and tell BL about it.
The more information, the better.

I hope this helped, my friend.
Good luck.

wwowwww. now thats a read. good stuf tho.

 

[Jackie Chan]

The stuff firstbadcomedown posted about not being able to feel yourself orgasm I actually did experience that. I found that my ability to feel things were so dulled and the more time I went not taking mdma it all gradually came back. Like five months ago if I took my hand and rubbed parts of my body like my other hand or my chest and stomach I could barely feel it. Even my legs, for a time I could barely feel my legs at all. But with abstinence all that slowly comes back. Anyone else experience the same thing?

 

[somedud]

Diddo.. Ive been on and off lexapro though.

But I found the MDMA to exemplify this largely.

Currently I'm on 10 mg of lexapro, day 6 and I feel fantastic, but that's probably the only bad side besides mildy increased anxiety.